Planes Thread

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by Jarhead, Dec 29, 2015.

  1. hmscott

    hmscott Notebook Nobel Laureate

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    Ethiopia pilots 'could not stop nosedive' - BBC News
    BBC News
    Published on Apr 4, 2019
    A preliminary report into the crash of an Ethiopian Airlines plane last month says the aircraft nosedived several times before it crashed.

    Pilots "repeatedly" followed procedures recommended by Boeing before the crash, according to the first official report into the disaster.

    Despite their efforts, pilots "were not able to control the aircraft", Transport Minister Dagmawit Moges said.

    Flight ET302 crashed after take-off from Addis Ababa, killing 157 people.

    It was the second crash of a Boeing 737 Max aircraft in five months.

    Last October, Lion Air flight JT 610 crashed into the sea near Indonesia killing all 189 people on board.

    "The crew performed all the procedures repeatedly [that were] provided by the manufacturer but were not able to control the aircraft," Ms Dagmawit said in a news conference in Addis Ababa.
     
  2. hmscott

    hmscott Notebook Nobel Laureate

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    There should be no way for MCAS to "automatically" re-enable after being disabled - the 2 switches are mechanical cut-off's for the motor driven jackscrew part of the MCAS AOA correction system. The media are getting it mixed up, or wrong, or mis-interpreted, or the MCAS cut-off isn't actually cutting out MCAS control - perhaps if the independent jackscrew trim system is disabled then other control inputs are used as fallback - unbeknownst to us all, so far?

    WSJ: Pilots followed Boeing procedures, still crashed

    CNN
    Published on Apr 3, 2019
    The Wall Street Journal, citing sources familiar with the preliminary investigation, says Ethiopian Airlines pilots initially followed emergency procedures outlined by Boeing. Despite their actions, the pilots were unable to gain control of the Boeing 737 Max 8. CNN has not been able to independently confirm the report. CNN's Tom Foreman goes into the virtual room, meanwhile Brianna Keilar discusses with former NTBS Managing Director Peter Goelz


    Ethiopia pilots followed Boeing procedures before crash: Sources
    CNBC Television
    Published on Apr 3, 2019
    CNBC's Phil LeBeau reports on the latest information on the 737 Max following the crash of the Ethiopian Airlines plane last month. With CNBC's Melissa Lee and the Fast Money traders, Pete Najarian, Karen Finerman, Tim Seymour and Guy Adami.


    Sensor from 737 that crashed repaired in Florida
    RT America
    Published on Apr 3, 2019
    The faulty equipment that caused the Boeing 737 Max8 plane to nose dive and crash near Indonesia in October may have been linked to a Florida repair shop. RT America’s Michele Greenstein joins Rick Sanchez with the details.
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2019
  3. hmscott

    hmscott Notebook Nobel Laureate

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  4. hmscott

    hmscott Notebook Nobel Laureate

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    Ran across this investigation, it's about another line - the 787 which is an extreme case being 3 years late then grounded due to the lipo battery failures, but it is worrisome how Boeing has changed to emphasize schedule over process quality in this case. The 737 Max's are constructed in Renton, Washington, with some parts made in South Carolina.

    The Boeing 787: Broken Dreams l Al Jazeera Investigations
    Al Jazeera English
    Published on Sep 10, 2014
    This is a major project by the Al Jazeera Investigative Unit focusing on the 787 “Dreamliner”, the flagship passenger jet of the Boeing Company.
    Our journalism reveals the deeply-held safety concerns of current and former Boeing engineers, who in some cases fear to fly on the 787, the plane they build.
    We uncover allegations of on-the-job drug use, quality control problems and poor workmanship.
    We explore the roots of the battery problems that led to the plane’s grounding due to safety concerns for three months from January 2013.


    TheYottaTube 4 weeks ago
    "Maybe it's time to investigate the Boeing 737 Max"

    Broken Dreams: The Boeing 787
    IN DEPTH
    https://www.aljazeera.com/investigations/boeing787
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2019
  5. hmscott

    hmscott Notebook Nobel Laureate

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    People & Power - On a wing and a prayer
    [Boeing 737 NG]

    Al Jazeera English
    Published on Dec 15, 2010
    Air travel is a question of trust, but a People & Power investigation asks what happens when that trust is shaken.


    On a wing and a prayer
    Air travel is a question of trust, but a People & Power investigation asks what happens when that trust is shaken.
    15 Dec 2010 15:20 GMT | Science & Technology, US & Canada
    https://www.aljazeera.com/programmes/peopleandpower/2010/12/20101214104637901849.html

    List of accidents and incidents involving the Boeing 737
    737 Next Generation (737-600/-700/-800/-900) aircraft
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_..._Generation_(737-600/-700/-800/-900)_aircraft

    16 crashes of 737 Next Generation airliners in total from 2010-2018, 6 in 2018, 3 in 2016, 1 in 2012, 2 in 2011, 3 in 2010
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2019
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  6. cucubits

    cucubits Notebook Evangelist

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    Wow, 16. Then it should be extremely difficult for boeing to get the trust back in 737s, no matter how much the patch it and fix and upgrade it. I still wouldn't fly on one no matter how much they promise it's fixed.

    Maybe it would be even wiser to just ditch them, recycle what they already have as grounded paperweights and work on something new.
     
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  7. killkenny1

    killkenny1 Too weird to live, too rare to die.

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    Sorry in advance if I'm gonna sound a bit harsh, but these two posts (or post and a half) clearly show why it is dangerous for people without any clear knowledge, in this particular case, of aviation, to go around spreading news to other people, who also have nil understanding and are very impressionable. Unfortunately, this is how majority of the journalism works these days.

    Please note - it's clear that Boeing rushed MAX and released the type prematurely to compete with A32F NEO, and by doing so shot themselves in the foot.
    Also I think FAA should be held responsible for not properly certifying the type. And I also wonder if EASA will start doing their own certification for US made planes in the future after all this, which in return could lead to FAA also doing the same for European made A/C.


    That being said, @hmscott, what is the point of those numbers? You can't just drop a word "crash" like that. Especially even without investigating what sort of "crashes" were they. Most of these aren't even crashes. Some of the accidents don't even have hull loses or dead casualties. You should be more careful what you post...

    And @cucubits, do you know against which metric to compare the number 16? Flight hours, flight cycles, landing gear cycles, pack cycles, engine cycles, etc.? Is it total accumulative flight cycles of 737NG or 737 overall? Or maybe 737-200, huh? Do you understand what that number even means?
    Do you even know what was the cause of those accidents? Were they technical or caused by human factors?
    By this logic, why not ban, I don't know, all Toyota Corollas out there (for example) they crash pretty often, don't they? Or BMWs, yeah, that's right, maybe then there would be less idiots on the road (Audi, Mercedes, Porsche, and any "town jeep" next please)!
    737 has gained plenty of trust (which unfortunately Boeing themselves are destroying) since its maiden flight in what, 1969? Or was it 1970? Unfortunately I don't remember the exact date.
    The A/C family was well established and reliable by many years of operations, so no wonder airlines went for MAX when it came out, expecting the same reliability without breaking the bank on operating costs. Unfortunately we have what we have now, however this should not be the ground to dismiss what was previously achieved and just basically call the ENTIRE series "trash." 737 is a good plane. "Ergonomically a disaster but a very enjoyable plane to hand fly" as one pilot I spoke to put it.
    Also good luck avoiding 737 in the US. MAXes might be banned, but there are plenty of NGs flying around the states... And they be flying even more, top compensate for grounded MAXes, which might be left grounded until July...



    Sorry for venting, but seriously, sometime reading things like that on the Internet gets me mad...
     
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  8. cucubits

    cucubits Notebook Evangelist

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    No need to apologize, you do have a point. Clearly what I said is not based on any researched/proven facts. Trouble is that in general with almost all airline flights nowadays, most of the times I can't help feeling that luck plays a large percent that we're not falling out of the sky or exploding for no apparent reason. Don't get me wrong, I like flying, I just don't feel the trust in the machines we are currently using. So this boeing mess just makes me opt for long roadtrips instead of short flights, even though this rationally doesn't make much sense with all the crazy drivers on the highways, but at least I do feel some sense of control over the situation.
     
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  9. hmscott

    hmscott Notebook Nobel Laureate

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    Did you watch the accompanying documentaries covering the whistle blower at Boeing? The expert evidence is what was posted, with accompanying historical info since the air frames went past 8 years.

    Check out the reported problems in manufacturing before flying off the handle. If you have counter evidence then please post that, not a personal judgemental rant.
     
  10. killkenny1

    killkenny1 Too weird to live, too rare to die.

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    So you post documentary about manufacturing problems, and then add "crashes" statistics taken out of context, which a lot of them were either operational or human factors caused "crashes". Can you tell me what was the point there?
     
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