PCI4 and DDR5

Discussion in 'Hardware Components and Aftermarket Upgrades' started by M17XR42012, Jul 29, 2018.

  1. M17XR42012

    M17XR42012 Notebook Consultant

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    All my current laptops are Gen 3 i7;s with 16 or 32gb of DDR3 and PCI 3.x. I use them for high def and 4k video editing, larger 100mp medium format raw files. Of course we are using SSD's to help.

    We only use high end stuff like Eurocom, Sager, MSI, Cleveo, Orgin hardware. We are at the point where we want to upgrade, but these laptops the way we configure them start at $3500 each. We are not trolling the sales at Best Buy for for tablets with keyboards that they call laptops.

    When you invest that type of money in hardware, the question comes up. Upgrade now or with big changes around the corner, wait.

    So I am asking with PCI4 (which your motherboard limits everything) around the corner. Is it wise to just wait another 12-18 months are get twice the bandwidth per PCI channel and possible DDR5 ram in a laptop?

    Running 2 mobile 1080's or new 11 series mobile cards and 3 or 4 nvme drives with double the bandwidth per channel seems nice. It would clearly make a difference for 4k and 8k video work.
     
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  2. Grant B Gibson

    Grant B Gibson Notebook Deity

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    PCI4/DDR5 isn't slated to release for much longer, and even assuming a 2020 launch, you would have to wait for a DTR laptop to release with those features, so even longer. It all honestly depends on the work you do and if you can continue using your machines. I would say no, because even assuming a August launch for 1100 series GPUs, you have to wait a long time for MXM laptop cards.
    It all depends on the work you do and if you can wait.
    Realistically, your current laptop can be upgraded to 4 RAID 0 SSD's (only SATA 3 but its still nice) a 980M(about a desktop 970 level of performance) or a 1070 if you have the 120HZ screen or upgrade to it, and a 4.0+GHZ i7
    If you don't even need a lot of bandwidth, you can even use a eGPU

    Short answer, no
    Long answer, it depends on what you can manage given the above time frame
     
  3. michealscott

    michealscott Notebook Consultant

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    I agree with Grant.

    DDR4/PCI 5.x is not going to out for a while. Desktop adoption will take some time and laptop adoption will be even later.

    Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk
     
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  4. bennyg

    bennyg Notebook Deity

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    Agree

    Plus, there's questions as to what they will offer at release other than the usual early adopter trifecta of poor availability, high prices, and bugs.

    New RAM generations usually take a year or two to show any gains until faster speed chips and better memory controllers are released

    Pcie 3.0 x8 limits were found (by Gamers Nexus) using two Titan V's which is an insane level of powah beyond this coming generation of high end SLI laptops and probably the next as well. Benefits of 4.0 to AMD GPUs that use the PCIe bus for mGPU communication is not worth thinking about when Vega MXM is still only a rumour

    Where Pcie 3.0 x4 shows a limit is with the DMI link between NVMe SSDs and the CPU. Its fairly easy to exploit this (RAIDed fast pcie SSDs) but would you be able to exploit this for noticeable benefit in your work flow?
     
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  5. Aivxtla

    Aivxtla Notebook Consultant

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    With 2 1080s you’re no longer in traditional “laptop” territory your going into (DTR) Desktop Replacement territory at that weight/size. Not sure Best Buy or standard retailers even sell DTRs. I’m sure if you went there, the Best Buy people would think you wanted a Desktop :). Starting at $3,500-4000 could probably net you a much more powerful desktop that would have better cooling/performance maybe even one with a Threadripper. If you don’t need portability this might be better, as you also would have better avenues for upgrades at lower prices in the future.

    Having said that, you are better off buying the DTR you need when the new nVidia cards hit or keep what you have as even if PCI4/DDR5 were finalized it would be a few years before they even hit client side. That too initial DDR5 modules would probably be not that much faster than DDR4 modules in real world use. Don’t quote me on this but if I recall reading a few articles I think either late 2020/2021 was when DDR5 was expected to enter availability.
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2018
  6. michealscott

    michealscott Notebook Consultant

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    This is correct. Intel announced a date of 2020 in a 2016 presentation


    Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk
     
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  7. Charles P. Jefferies

    Charles P. Jefferies TG Lead Moderator Super Moderator

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    It makes little sense to delay a purchase of new equipment if your current hardware is limiting your productivity. With new equipment you could be realizing performance gains immediately, which is worth a lot more than waiting several months or a year for something that will likely be incrementally faster.

    The new six-core Intel Core i7/i9 and the eight-core AMD Ryzen 7 chips will offer much more performance than your current setup. Memory bandwidth isn't much of a problem for modern CPUs; just get the largest capacity dual-channel setup you can afford. Not sure why you'd need an SLI GPU setup for your work, a single powerful Quadro ought to handle whatever you can throw at it.

    Since storage performance is a priority for you, make sure the notebook you choose has good cooling for the M.2 drive slots. Heat spreaders with active cooling fans would be ideal. Those little drives tend to heat up fast in closed environments. Intel Optane drives are worth looking into as either a storage drive or a cache for the OS. Consider going with external storage; just about all high-end notebooks nowadays have a Thunderbolt 3 port, which you can use to hook up an external storage array with dedicated cooling.

    A new notebook doesn't have to cost a lot. Look in the Dell Outlet for a Precision desktop replacement notebook. The HP Outlet is also worth browsing for a ZBook. The new models with the 8th gen Intel CPUs might take a few weeks to get in there if they're not already there. The Dell Precision 7730 would be my pick.

    Charles
     
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  8. M17XR42012

    M17XR42012 Notebook Consultant

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    Thank you for the responses, I understand the reasoning behind going back to desktops because they are more powerful, but the last time I loaded a full tower and 3 24 inch monitors into my truck and transported them to a remote location was the last time I would ever do that. So I need DTR laptops. I really like the Dell M series stuff and never have been happy with HP equipment, but maybe I am wrong, even the M and Z series laptops are BGA and we want fully upgradable parts, including the CPU's. That leaves us with Origin PC, Eurocom, Clevo, etc.

    For instance the Eurocom Sky X9C is a likely candidate with the 8700K.
     
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  9. Aivxtla

    Aivxtla Notebook Consultant

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    Umm I’d hold off on HP/Acer (At least from what I have seen). My dad’s corporation (Medtronic) which uses Dell, one year had a reverse auction which HP won due to lower bids but they went back to Dell within a year as HP support was down right atrocious. Not only that pretty much everyone I know who has a HP/Acer has had hardware issues within 1-2 years.

    Support wise Dell is usually excellent if not the best on the PC side (mine and friends/family experiences) I bought a refurb $700 7567 and they gave me a $1200-1400 maxed out 4K 7577 as replacement when I complained 2x about uneven core temps (2 day shipping). They even returned the HDD from the 7567 in case I wanted it and mailed it separately. Not only that I upgraded the HDD to an SSD on the 7567 and they returned it with a brand new HDD and my SSD packaged separately as they wanted to return the 7567 in factory default condition when I sent it in the first time.

    Dell doesn’t void warranty for self replacements of SSDs, RAM, WiFi cards and they give great business support and onsite warranty repair (maybe additional cost) should anything go wrong.

    I’ve seen quite a few corporations prefer Dell for their support over cheaper alternatives. I’ve used a lot of my dad’s companies old Latitudes and Precisions, built like tanks and never had one fail yet.
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2018
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  10. Charles P. Jefferies

    Charles P. Jefferies TG Lead Moderator Super Moderator

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    The FCC made it clear no one can void warranties like that:
    FTC Staff Warns Companies that It Is Illegal to Condition Warranty Coverage on the Use of Specified Parts or Services
    https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/pre...panies-it-illegal-condition-warranty-coverage

    Charles
     
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