[Official] Questions for the MSI Rep! #2

Discussion in 'MSI' started by MSIGeno, Sep 15, 2014.

  1. Lumlx

    Lumlx Notebook Consultant

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    If battery is full and you play from AC then battery produce almost no heat since it is not charging unless your battery is being used together with AC while gaming. Ofcourse you can use laptop without battery however whenever you will want to use it without AC then you will need to replug battery.
     
  2. hmscott

    hmscott Notebook Nobel Laureate

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    Many MSI models use battery boost to assist in delivering more power to the GPU / CPU than AC can deliver, you'll see the battery level drop when heavy gaming and it can continue until about 35% charge - the battery level limit minimum to supply battery boost - and then the performance will drop noticeably.

    Recently someone posted that they removed the battery because it was failing and while they waited for their replacement battery their gaming performance sucked, once they put the new battery in the performance returned.

    Be aware of that possibility, I don't know about your model. Let us know if that's what you see when you disconnect the battery.

    BTW, removing the battery to "save it" actually reduces the life as the battery charging manager moderates the battery charge level - reducing it and increasing it randomly over time - to keep the battery fresh and extend it's life. Letting the battery slowly discharge over time - while disconnected - it can discharge too far and go "negative" which damages the battery.

    If you leave the battery connected, and plugged in when not using it the battery manager (hardware) will keep the battery in good condition. No matter what you do the lifetime of the battery at best is limited - the chemistry breaks down over time, so it's best to keep it connected and managed to have the best chance of long life.
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2019
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  3. Kevin@GenTechPC

    Kevin@GenTechPC Company Representative

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    You should just use it as it's designed without worry about every single technicality on the system.
    If battery goes out during warranty then you can have MSI to replace it for you anyway. If you take it out you will not only lose performance during gameplay but you will also cause the battery life to reduce if the charge isn't at storage level (30~50%). And Scott is right on this too.
     
  4. Avé César

    Avé César Notebook Consultant

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    Thx guys for answers.

    So why it is hot ?

    On my pc, when the battery is from 91 to 100% charge, the pc don't charge is until the battery goes to 90%. While i'm gaming, if the battery is 95% or 100%, it never goes down, doesn't move.

    In the past MSI used the "NOS" feature : https://www.msi.com/faq/nb-684.html But people were upset about this. From MSI, on newest model, MSI don't use the NOS feature so i don't understand why the deck above the battery (full charge while gaming on AC) is hot ?....

    The metal deck above Function keys is hot, really hot, don't know why if the battery isn't used while gaming on AC. I thought, removing it, will bring less temps in the chassis, near the "caloduc". On my model, the AC Adaptor is a 230W, so normally enough for the 8750h and GTX1070 ?

    maxresdefault.jpg msi-gs73-raider-main.png
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2019
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  5. hmscott

    hmscott Notebook Nobel Laureate

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    You could test unplugging the cable from the battery - leave the battery inside the laptop - make sure your laptop is completely shutdown before opening the laptop to pull the cable, don't leave it in sleep or hibernation.

    Then run for a while on AC only, making sure to have all of your AC fittings completely connected solidly. See if the heated area cools down and the heat doesn't come back after a few hours of use.

    The characteristics of the battery boost power level depletion depends on the game, as some won't need the boost all of the time during gaming while the power draw is fulfilled adequately by AC power.
    There can be times in game play where there is a short non-continuous power draw from the battery to supplement the AC power during gaming power draw peaks, but not so much as to register on the remaining battery level indicator.

    If the power draw from the battery is infrequent enough the charging circuit could replace that power in between power draw peaks. After the battery draw at gaming load peaks ends the charging circuit would kick in to replace the power used, also generating heat in that area while charging.
    This would continually build up heat in the battery area.

    If your laptop has an HDD it could be generating the heat you are feeling through the deck.
    Where is the HDD in relation to the battery location? If the HDD is next to the battery, or over/under the battery, and the HDD is remaining spun up - you haven't tuned the power settings to spin down the HDD after a minute or two - then that heat from the spinning HDD could add up while playing - the HDD stays running, I think default is 20 minutes idle before the HDD is spun down.

    Check your power plan advanced settings for the HDD spin down, set it to 1 or 2 minutes - if you only have an SSD I keep them powered all the time on AC power - setting to Never for spin down. HDD's are going to park their heads anyway even if still spinning so there will be lag introduced by the HDD head parking settings (you can change those too, which I recommend if you have lag in games when loading during game play) so spinning down the HDD quickly after use might allow for cool down while not interfering with game play.

    If there are negative side effects to gaming with the 1 or 2 minute power down setting on the HDD, try adjusting it up until your game use is ok.

    The idea behind this is to let the HDD spin down / power off as soon as possible after use to reduce the heat generated by the HDD. Even if the reduced time powered on setting doesn't power down the HDD during the game, it will power down the HDD quicker after the game allowing for more cooling of the HDD between HDD uses, between gaming sessions.

    I am assuming you have an SSD as a boot drive and the HDD is only for game or application storage. If you are running only from an HDD then there might not be an optimal setting for powering down your HDD quickly as any access to the software on the HDD will spin it back up and start generating heat again.

    I always recommend upgrading the HDD to an SSD large enough to be able to completely remove the HDD from the laptop. HDD's can generate a lot of heat and use a lot of power so it's best to not have one in the laptop.

    Disconnecting the internal battery isn't a good idea as AC power isn't necessarily constant.
    ...where the laptop switched to battery mode because one power supply's AC cable had worked it's way out and the laptop sensed that power supply wasn't supplying power so it switched to battery mode. I'm using a GT75 Titan-013 with 2 x 230w PSU's.

    Oddly enough there was no strain on that AC cable, or any cable connection in the power feeding from both power supplies, yet that cable popped itself out from the AC connector of the power supply.

    For my use there was no data loss or interruption of use, I just noticed that I was running on battery all of a sudden. In your case with the battery disconnected you would have lost all power when that AC cable dropped out and lost your work / data / state of use.

    Please let us know how it works out. :)
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2019
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  6. Avé César

    Avé César Notebook Consultant

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    There's no cable on battery, it is connect with "shaped pin". Will try to remove battery and see...
     
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  7. Avé César

    Avé César Notebook Consultant

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    So i removed the battery, the pc boot normally, icon in the notification, is normal, no battery detected. I played Dota 2, and test the temps. On throttlestop, on 2 core, the max is 69, while before i had 74 or 76 on 2 cores max.
    I won 5 to 7 degrees on max cores. The deck above the function keys is hot, but a bit less, so it comes from the refection of the top ''caloduc'' inside. The placement of the battery is bad so, cause even the pc doesn't use it while on AC, the battery got temp, hot , reflection from the caloduc, i think this affects the life of the battery too.

    I didnd't see for now difference while gaming, pc runs as before... Will see on others games, more demanding as Dota. (Summers here, 25° outside, don't know in my room...)
     
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  8. hmscott

    hmscott Notebook Nobel Laureate

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    The CPU is quite a ways away from the Battery / Charging circuit and shouldn't affect the CPU temperature while gaming.

    The CPU drop in temperature could indicate less performance being used, fewer FPS would drop the load on the CPU / GPU and drop their temperatures.

    You should be measuring the FPS before / after battery removal - sorry I didn't mention that specifically before. Does the FPS average go down after removing the battery indicating the battery was providing power for greater performance?

    Does the section of the heatpipe nearest the battery get hot? If the heat you are feeling coming from the heatpipe, and with the battery installed is the heat conducting through the battery? Was the battery hot?

    Maybe put the battery back in and game for a long while and then quick pop the back off (leave the screws out) and feel to see if the battery is actually getting hot.

    The temperature change could be simply less running time - if the laptop was on for a longer time with the battery in it when you finally took the temperature it would be higher than after you removed the battery and then checked the temperature.

    Thin laptops store heat - it builds up over time of use because the cooling system can't expel it in continuous use - and the CPU / GPU temps can rise higher doing the same work the longer you use it.

    Also time of day - the ambient temperature - can affect readings greatly especially if you measure it around 12pm-3pm vs midnight or in the AM.

    If there was no cable to connect the battery, just a clip in contact when the battery is in place, and it's not glued in, that's interesting.

    If you are going to run without the battery installed be sure and monitor the level of the battery and leave it in / plugged into AC every 4-6 weeks - maybe check it at 2-3 weeks initially to see what rate it self-discharges.

    Heat will kill those lithium-ion batteries. They like to run under 55c, charge under 45c, and 60c or over is bad for the cells. The Asus Zephyrus comes to mind, a bunch of people reported swollen batteries and had to have them replaced.

    Tight spaces, thin laptops, and the trend toward stuffing higher and higher performance into thing laptops all add up to a bad environment in which to run Lion batteries. Makers should consider putting the AC power converter / charging and batteries external to the laptop - away from all heat sources.
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2019
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  9. Avé César

    Avé César Notebook Consultant

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    I didn't see a drop in performance , either fps.
    I can't tell you if it's the nearest heatpipe to the battery placement who gets hot and gives warm to this area, cause i don't use my laptop open and don't wanna put my fingers onto see how hot it is. : D
    Yeah battery in this notebook shouldn't be hot than 60° as mentionned on the back of it.
    Battery.jpg Pin.jpg
    Battery was 98% before i remove it, will put it back on Saturday 27 Juillet and will report here how much it lost.... Thx for all this discution by the way @hmscott
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2019
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  10. Avé César

    Avé César Notebook Consultant

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    @hmscott hey, today i put it back the battery, i don't know why but before it, i played dota got 69° max on 2 cores, and 2 hours after, i check temps, and got 79° max on 2 cores. Also PKG Power max was a bit higher then usual, from 18~ to 24~... Don't know if it's relate to the battery outside the pc...
    In 4 days, battery lost 1% only.
     
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