*Official* NBR Desktop Overclocker's Lounge [laptop owners welcome, too]

Discussion in 'Desktop Hardware' started by Mr. Fox, Nov 5, 2017.

  1. Ashtrix

    Ashtrix ψυχή υπεροχή

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    This is some good discovery and minimizing the performance impact and the USB instability (Also surprising to see PCIe add-in USB didn't fix the drops - Means that's the issue of PCIe, another known one again damn) of the X570 and Zen 3, but it's annoying to see the top end of the stack of the x86 processors from AMD display such behavior in the first place. Also on the DPC aspect, Anandtech's X570 DARK review got the highest DPC latency and lowest POST time of all the boards they tested. They ran a 3700X in it not even Ryzen 5000 series. A shame that they didn't even test any Memory OC or such. Also EVGA board is not the X570S series from their documentation or specs, it's the first X570 only. AMD and ASUS say it's just a firmware change that allows the Matisse PCH silicon to run at lower power improving it but I refuse to beleive how a simple firmware change enables that, if that's the case all X570 boards can remove the chipset fan entirely.

    It's clearly looking like an I/O die issue on the CPU, it's made on 12nm GlobalFoundries. Some folks even have problems with Zen 2 Matisse but very few cases vs Zen 3 Vermeer, but not just limited to X570, it happens on B550 too which is an ASMedia PCH chipset unlike the X570(S) which is just a repurposed 12nm Global Foundries Matisse I/O die. It's probably due to the performance push that AMD did with very small ceiling left.

    Note All EPYC series even including latest Milan based on Zen 3 doesn't use 12nm GlobalFoundries I/O die but rather 14nm GlobalFoundries I/O die, they do not have insane clocks on the CPU cores so probably went for that and eases the cost ? or some other reason dunno, but they have higher power consumption on the I/O die on a Server socket despite that they did not change since first EPYC. All this means the AM4 CPUs get different validation suite entirely, ofc a Server and Mainstream (not sure what's the I/O die on the HEDT side) will always be separate but this is me just assuming more things.

    Also since you do not get Memory instabilities over 3800MHz DRAM / 1800 FCLK unlike others, it's again another inconsistent behavior observation on the Ryzen design.

    Memory instability past 3600MHz with WHEA bonus on top of USB, PCIe dropping issues which are independent and dependent on each other at the same time and even happen for bone stock. AMD should man up and fix this really once and for all but it's way too hard to fix once it's past validation and in the market. The lack of documentation from AMD is another big bummer, Zen 3D might be the only way they can fix but it doesn't change the I/O die on the CPUs but however a new stepping for sure. Your Ryzen 5950X Zen 3 is B0 stepping, AMD said a new B2 is in works, since all folks already built a lot of machines and lack of GPUs means fewer new buyers on top of Intel ADL hype. It's hard to find this information...
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2021
  2. SierraFan07

    SierraFan07 Notebook Evangelist

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    I second this, excellent job. And these achievements were only made possible by continually searching out solutions and being proactive. Understandably, bug finding can get tiring and cause many to throw in the towel, but to he who puts in the work belong the spoils. You earned it!

    Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk
     
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  3. electrosoft

    electrosoft Perpetualist Matrixist

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    For your end goals, it makes complete sense to effectively face palm the whea issue when what you seek are overclocking results. Just about every red lining endeavor has risk/reward. Very nice scores indeed! I put nothing past any corporation when the sole focus is maximizing profits and shareholder value. That's the nature of the beast.

    Reviews like that irritate me. A modern board running an older CPU amongst a bunch of other boards that have long since had their BIOSes updated. Instead of doing the groundwork and retesting with the newest versions of their BIOSes and running 5000 series CPUs and doing some real edge testing to differentiate the boards they go with the ole ho hum. Ma and Pa computer users aren't going to buy Dark boards (or similar high end models) for ho hum use. They need to differentiate their testing based on tiers and designed use.

    It is usually when boards get into the hands of hardcore overclockers that you can start to separate the wheat from the chaff and you listen to voices you trust.

    I like @Mr. Fox approach to basically turning off all safeties and error reporting to basically pursue pure results but the issues are still there when all is said and done. It is just that he doesn't care because that's outside the scope of what he is trying to achieve. You use every tool and advantage you can to get the best scores possible. I love it. :)
     
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  4. Mr. Fox

    Mr. Fox BGA Filth-Hating Elitist

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  5. tps3443

    tps3443 Notebook Virtuoso

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    So my brother sold me his system for really cheap. And this is the exact reason that makes me seriously regret selling that Z490 Dark Kingpin I had!… I’m a doofus for doing that. (I wasn’t anticipating my brother selling me all of this stuff)

    Yes, I love my new Evga Z590 Dark and my awesome 11900K as my main system.

    However, I’m building the 10850K rig as the new direct die backup PC! And I’m unfamiliar with these Gigabyte bios. I really wish I had my old Z490 Dark Kp. This 10850K would easily do 5.2Ghz all core at 1.380-1390V range. And it could handle half cores at 5.3Ghz. (All on that Z490 Dark KP)

    I delidded this 10850K earlier today. I just used standard liquid metal. I let the LM soak on the solder for a while, and it finally came off!

    Also, the plastic thermal paste spatulas work well to remove most of the solder.

    This was my first delid on a soldered CPU.

    This 10850K is probably very capable of 5.3Ghz all core now that it’ll be direct die.


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  6. Clamibot

    Clamibot Notebook Deity

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    Windows 10 LTSC is still the best for gaming!

    I already posted this in the Clevo X170SM-G owner's lounge, but I'm going to post it again here since I think it's more likely I can get a comprehensive answer from the people on this thread:

    My X170SM-G is finally arriving on thursday and I'm thinking of buying a Rockitcool full copper IHS for the 10900K I bought. Will it fit in this system? I'm thinking it should but I'd like to confirm first.

    Also, do I need to put anything in the order notes on their site?
     
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  7. Mr. Fox

    Mr. Fox BGA Filth-Hating Elitist

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    Yes, it will fit just fine. zTecpc sold them that way and I tested them with the Rockitcool copper IHS. It doesn't make a huge difference, but every little bit helps. And, you can keep the stock IHS looking brand new if you are planning to use liquid metal. I recommend you follow the guidance from @Papusan and @jc_denton on the baking process so that the copper absorbs all of the liquid metal it can into its pores (both underside and top side) before you install it in your laptop. That will produce better results and make the liquid metal application durable and lasting. It also makes the application easier. It sticks to itself better than it sticks to new copper.
     
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  8. Clamibot

    Clamibot Notebook Deity

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    Thank you. This is good to know.

    I wanted to be 100% sure it would work. I already spent a lot of money on this laptop and really don't want to spend any more.

    I really hope I never have to get high end hardware again, but unfortunately that's all that would suit my needs this time around.

    Just watch me get used to this and only wanting high end hardware in the future. Everything you had before becomes very unsatsfying when you experience something better, kinda like me jumping from a 60 Hz screen to a 120 Hz screen, and then to a 144 Hz screen.:D

    Fortunately I should be able to easily afford high end hardware in the future. I'm going to be graduating with a Master's Degree in Software Engineering in December, and I hope to have a job lined up by then. I pretty much only spend money on food, computers, and video games. I don't have any other hobbies besides those two and programming.:p
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2021
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  9. electrosoft

    electrosoft Perpetualist Matrixist

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    AKA "The Electrosoft Template" :D

    Toss in plenty of Sci-Fi/Fantasy/Anime and your journey to the dark side will be complete. :cool:

    I'm much older than you but take comfort in the fact that template will remain static even as you get older. :)
     
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  10. Mr. Fox

    Mr. Fox BGA Filth-Hating Elitist

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    Congratulations on the accomplishment. I hope that opens doors to an enjoyable and prosperous career for you.

    I concur. That is how it played out for me as well. The Fantasy and Anime are not something I ever got into, but I will vouch for the fact that the sickness is permanent. If we are honest about it, I think we would all admit that we DO NOT want to be cured. We love our sickness. That's why the degradation we see within the industry is so disturbing and aggravating to some of us. We expect better.
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2021
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