*** OFFICIAL GIGABYTE AERO 15 OWNERS LOUNGE ***

Discussion in 'Gigabyte and Aorus' started by BringTheRain403, May 8, 2017.

  1. hmscott

    hmscott Notebook Nobel Laureate

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    Both your comments are incorrect.

    I provided actual test results in the form of those reviews, and people can look for other reviews as well. I try to find and provide the most recent reviews I can, but the previous reviews I have provided from previous times say the same thing.

    All had similar results and the same suggestions, unless your workload requires heavy IO you'll be just fine with a SATA SSD.

    When you are responding to a stranger you have nothing to go on except from what they say, and as they describe themselves and their situation with more detail and specificity I can provide better feedback.

    In your case the answer and recommendation hasn't changed, even given knowing more about your situation. It didn't make any difference :)
     
  2. brucek2

    brucek2 Notebook Guru

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    This is most directly what I'd like to debate. I agree there are combinations of older drives, slower systems, other bottlenecks, improper configuration, lack of PCIe lanes, etc etc. that can result in literally no extra performance delivered. The public service I would like to provide in this thread is to contain the spread of "that can happen in some cases" from being exaggerated into "PCIe is a myth with no consumer benefits."

    Nothing you have said debunks the hard numbers in the table I provided, which are large both in an absolute and percentage basis. Four of them are for task categories that virtually every owner of an Aero 15 will perform. They are well above the human threshold of perception which in a healthy adult is seldom above 100ms. They don't even include basic desktop responsiveness, which I believe for many is a behind the scenes "killer app" of being satisfied or not with their laptop.

    What you have said, that I agree with, is that the value is not in total task completion time. I am not recommending these drives because completing a presentation in 89.2 vs. 89.3 minutes is a bottom line justification of extra cost. I am recommending them because humans do not enjoy perceptible delays and they do enjoy smoothness. At a bare minimum extra smoothness is a small luxury I can easily afford that I enjoy. The value may be far greater than that though, because a smoother flow where I continuously feel I am driving the computer vs. a broken flow where I sometimes feel it is driving me, could have real impact on my overall creative results. Same with the difference say between a compile long enough for my brain to lose focus and do a context switch vs. a shorter one that keeps me focused and on task. It's not about the billable rate of a 6 second difference, it's about the impact that difference has on me and my work.

    Since I've been focused on where we disagree, I did want to take a moment to appreciate your overall helpfulness here. I agree with you that a SATA drive will be perfectly acceptable for handling a large variety of tasks, that it is a vast improvement over HDD for most of them, and that the cost savings could be important especially if they prevent sacrifices in other core parts of the system. If you need to build a budget system, this is one of the places you can cut.
     
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  3. brucek2

    brucek2 Notebook Guru

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    I removed the original Lite On drive from its slot (the one not in line with the battery), and added my 960 EVO into the other slot (the one that is in line with the battery - I wanted a battery stop ;-)). My stock BIOS (day 1 purchase, no updates, no configuration changes) recognized it immediately on power up.

    I'm sorry I don't have much to suggest. If you played with your BIOS settings, try resetting them to factory. Make sure the drive is firmly socketed. Try the other socket. It may be a bad drive?
     
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  4. hmscott

    hmscott Notebook Nobel Laureate

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    It's not an exaggeration to say that the additional cost of an M.2 PCIE x4 NVME drive isn't of value to most consumers. That's not a myth, that's a fact.

    There isn't a reason to pay $600 for $300 worth of 1TB storage. What kind of magic would it take to make that worthwhile? :)

    Certainly not saving seconds on a game load, nor saving seconds on a boot up, those are fleeting events within the context of many hours of usage.

    Will there be game lag from loads like are prevalent with HDD's with an M.2 SATA SSD? No there won't. So an M.2 PCIE x4 NVME SSD won't provide additional benefit here.

    I haven't disputed that a Copy, Duplicate, or other high IO intensive operation can be faster using an M.2 PCIE NVME SSD, I've said that's of no consequence unless that is the predominance of what you do all day long.

    Unless your computer use is Copying files back and forth all day, your actual computer tasks will only have a very small percentage of IO involved in their running, and you won't notice or gain benefit from having an M.2 PCIE x4 NVME SSD in 99% of your daily use.
    Sorry man, I have to say it's all in your head if you feel the M.2 PCIE NVME SSD is making a difference in normal usage, it's just not enough of a reduction in wall time for IO transactions as a % of overall process execution to be able to notice.
    It's not just budget systems, it's the top performance systems where it will also not make a difference.

    I see people spending $6000+ on 4x 2TB M.2 PCIE NVME SSD's, it's really painful how much of a waste of money that is. You could buy a whole 2nd laptop for the price. Wild.

    Scaling down to the 1x M.2 configurations it's still a big difference, but the high end systems wasting 4x the money are very sad.

    You keep going back to talking about saving money like you only do it if you "need" to do it. Saving money matters to everyone, especially when you have a lot of it, if you don't watch how you spend your money you may soon not have any.

    "A fool and his money are soon parted"

    That's how I perceive this situation. There are very few situations where an M.2 PCIE x4 NVME SSD is *required* over an M.2 SATA drive.

    When it's not required, it's a luxury, and as a luxury M.2 PCIE NVME SSD's perform very poorly. They aren't blingy, they're hidden under the skin of the laptop, just looking at a laptop you can't tell they are there. There's no overt expression of wealth, no pampering result from use, no unusual flavor or color.

    As a luxury item, M.2 PCIE NVME SSD's are a complete bust ;)
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2017
  5. brucek2

    brucek2 Notebook Guru

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    I won't quibble over "luxury." It fits in a lot of cases. What I don't understand is why you reserve storage for "needless luxury that only fools spend money on" while apparently sparing every other element of the Aero 15. If the criteria is absolutely required, then how do these other items make the cut in your eyes?

    CPU: A core i5 would be fine for most tasks. Heck the CPU is idle most of the day for most users. The tasks that benefit from that i7 aren't everyday tasks for everyday users. If something takes a few seconds longer it's no big deal anyway. Wasteful!

    GPU: The GTX 1060 is rendering more than the 60 frames its screen can display for many games at 1080p. 1050ti would be acceptable for many games especially with settings turned down. The gamer wouldn't clear the level any slower or score any less points. Wasteful!

    High Quality Display with Thin Bezel: A cheaper display is legible for reading websites just fine. That brucek2 guy isn't going to make any more sense just because it's a nicer display. And large bezels never hurt anyone. More waste!

    Smaller size and weight: You can get the same specs for a lot less in a unit that's only a little heavier and a little bigger. Most users can carry that weight no problem. More waste to make it smaller than needed!

    RGB Keyboard: LOL

    Come to think of it, shouldn't everyone who doesn't have income-generating tasks running 24x7 be buying a used laptop from a few years ago? Great deals on those and they do all the same basic tasks.

    You say 12 seconds faster to load the level has no value. I say I'll notice that a lot more often than I'll notice FPS above 60 or super far draw distance for 3 blades of grass in the shade.
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2017
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  6. dalingrin

    dalingrin Notebook Evangelist

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    While your counter point is helpful, I do think you need to understand perspectives.
    If you would stop stating your opinion as fact then I think your posts would be more helpful and more well received.

    The value argument is a perfectly valid point to raise but you need to understand that your definition of value can and will differ from other people's definition of value.

    You also keep insisting that NVME drives are $600 to help your argument but I personally wouldn't even consider buying the 960 Pro for $600. After a quick search today, I saw the 1TB PM961(OEM 960 EVO) for $380.

    Which actually brings us to an example of opinions and perspective, the OEM drives do not have as good of a warranty as the retail drives. *IN MY OPINION,* it is not worth paying extra for the retail with a longer warranty. I formed this opinion based on the number of drives I've had fail and the money I have saved by not spending money for warranties. If the drive happens to fail I can easily afford a replacement. However, I would not try to force that opinion on others. I am cognizant that others may enjoy the feeling of being covered by the warranty or perhaps could not easily afford to replace the drive if it fails in the next 3 years.

    It is almost comical that you're spending all this time defining what is and what isn't a luxury item for other people, on a nearly $2000 laptop. I really think you could do yourself a service to state your opinion on the pertinent matter, give justification for your opinion and let others come to their own decision. Some people are just not going to quibble over $50-100 on a nearly $2000 purchase, there's really no point in trying to convince them that your world view is the only valid world view.
     
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  7. hmscott

    hmscott Notebook Nobel Laureate

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  8. brucek2

    brucek2 Notebook Guru

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    If they announce the Aero 15v2 with Volta don't tell me :)
    Enjoy!
     
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  9. isu89

    isu89 Notebook Enthusiast

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    Curious if anyone has confirmation that GentechPC is building/shipping any of the preorders yet (earlier in the thread somebody indicated May 30th, so hopefully that is still on track)
     
  10. scrod

    scrod Notebook Consultant

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    The main drawback for me is that none of the ultrabooks have a quad-core i7 in them. If you may need compute power for scientific or other applications, or even future games, that could be a drawback even if you have the TB3 port for desktop 1070/1080 graphics.

    The new Max-Q "ultrabooks" look like a nice compromise. Not sure they will have a footprint like the Aero 15, but the MSI and Clevo appear be a bit thinner and lighter with 1070 graphics. You'd have to wait at least a month, and unless they make other changes, the MSI appears to be the same GS63VR chassis so you'd have mediocre battery life and display. Always something better coming soon!

    http://www.geforce.com/whats-new/articles/nvidia-geforce-gtx-max-q-laptops
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2017
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