*** Official Clevo X170SM-G/Sager NP9670M Owner's Lounge ***

Discussion in 'Sager/Clevo Reviews & Owners' Lounges' started by Rahego, Jan 10, 2020.

Tags:
  1. Clamibot

    Clamibot Notebook Evangelist

    Reputations:
    123
    Messages:
    416
    Likes Received:
    312
    Trophy Points:
    76
    @Entropytwo You have perfectly valid points.

    However, you don't have to go crazy with specs. Usually the i7 + xx70 combo or i5 + xx60 combo gives you the best price/performance ratio. This is true of BGA laptops as well. You get diminishing returns as you keep going higher with specs.

    The X170 and laptops like it are meant to last much longer than BGA laptops, which is why their upgradeability is a strong selling point. Normally the part that starts showing it's age first is the GPU, since that's generally the most important component for games. Even if you get a xx80 MXM card to upgrade your laptop with, it's still a better value proposition in the long run than getting 2 BGA laptops within the same timeframe you keep your upgradeable one (assuming all three of these laptops have the processing power you need when you get them). I will admit this does depend on how you specced out your LGA laptop when you got it, because the top end offerings are ludicrously expensive (but this applies to BGA laptops too).

    CPUs improve at a pretty slow rate these days, so I don't fancy double spending on a CPU I practically already have. If I buy a new system, everything about it should be significantly better than my last system. If you go the economical route with an upgradeable system, it will be much cheaper in the long run. The xx60 and xx70 MXM cards generally do not cost a fortune, especially if you get them used.

    For my personal use case, I would have had to get 3 different BGA laptops over the lifetime of my current laptop had I went the BGA route. The total cost of owning computers over this time period would have totaled up to around $6000 for me (estimated). Instead, I've only spent a little less than $3000 on my current upgradeable system over it's lifetime, including the cost of buying it.

    Upgradeable machines can be much cheaper in the long run if you play your cards right. Don't go for the highest end parts because you pay an exorbitant amount of money for a small increase in processing power over the second best offering. This applies to BGA laptops as well. Get an upgradeable system with an i5 or i7 and pair it with a xx60 or xx70 card, then upgrade with a newer xx60 or xx70 card when needed, and you'll have significantly reduced the cost of owning computers during the time you have that laptop. Don't double or triple spend on a CPU and motherboard you already have with BGA machines.

    BGA was never meant for performance machines, and it's sad that that's how most performace laptops are nowadays. The build quality on them has taken a huge nose dive too.
     
    DreDre, jclausius, raz8020 and 3 others like this.
  2. Papusan

    Papusan JOKEBOOKs Sucks! Dont waste your $$$ on FILTHY

    Reputations:
    32,397
    Messages:
    26,891
    Likes Received:
    49,704
    Trophy Points:
    931
    Most unified heatsink is created to remove less heat than the total heat source. Same also for the unified heatsink in X170.
    upload_2020-10-29_21-31-25.png

    Nothing is changed vs. Jokebooks todays cooling
    upload_2020-10-29_21-34-9.png

    10900K PL2 250W. Gpu is 200W. This means an unlocked Cpu adverticed/promoted with Over-clocking technology has to lower the power consumption to avoid boiling. People say the Cpu normally isn't maxed out in gaming. But if you max the cpu on other tasks simultaneous the performance will be hit by not adquate cooling. This is the nasty truth with Unified/shared heatsink.

    If they absolutely has to use it due lack of space in the chassis... Then follow hardware specs... 200w for Gpu and 250w for the Cpu (X170). + the normal 10-15% thermal headroom (+495w cooling capacity). But will not happen now or in the future. Because this HS design was invented as a fantastic final solution for thin chassis design with limited inside space.

    And with this we will see the screw will be tighten further. More sensors will be welded on the MB calling back to mama to regulate the power draw as mentioned in my previous post. This with help of nice firmware and software. Dell is good at it as you can see ... Others will follow same paths.
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2020
    raz8020, electrosoft, Mr. Fox and 2 others like this.
  3. GrandesBollas

    GrandesBollas Notebook Consultant

    Reputations:
    233
    Messages:
    282
    Likes Received:
    373
    Trophy Points:
    76
    If the OEMs will not design, engineer and install appropriate cooling solutions, the only other recourse for them is to lock down CPU and GPU power limits. An X170 with a 340w cooling solution gives you only a 140w PL2. I see this behavior in my P870 where the GPU has been artificially throttled to 150w. With that restriction, I can't even get my GPU much above 70 c in Time Spy. i pretty much have wide open CPU power limits but I chose to cap them to keep from thermal throttling.
     
    raz8020 and Papusan like this.
  4. Papusan

    Papusan JOKEBOOKs Sucks! Dont waste your $$$ on FILTHY

    Reputations:
    32,397
    Messages:
    26,891
    Likes Received:
    49,704
    Trophy Points:
    931
    Clevo RTX 2080 mobile MXM is capped at 150w. Clevo saw the light with the Super card and increased it to 200W.
     
    DreDre, raz8020 and Mr. Fox like this.
  5. Joe4zio

    Joe4zio Notebook Consultant

    Reputations:
    13
    Messages:
    120
    Likes Received:
    70
    Trophy Points:
    41
    https://download.schenker-tech.de/package/xmg-ultra-17-idxul17m20/
    The one listed here, well, updated or not, I learned throttlestop and I like it :) CCC is just for fan profiles if needed and those perstering LEDs which of course are still zombiefied
     
    Papusan and Mr. Fox like this.
  6. Entropytwo

    Entropytwo Notebook Consultant

    Reputations:
    19
    Messages:
    132
    Likes Received:
    72
    Trophy Points:
    41
    Nice write up, however seeing that amd and nvidia just threw out their new cpu and gpus, you'd buy a pretty badly outdated and overpriced system now.

    Clevo is also extremly stubborn regarding high level amd cpus.

    My girlfriends bga turd lenovo which is 5 years old now and who has seen endless games didn't snare any operation besides being trashed by windows.. a clean format cured that cancer and now it runs just as new, no repaste at all.
     
  7. Mr. Fox

    Mr. Fox BGA Filth-Hating Elitist

    Reputations:
    34,482
    Messages:
    37,058
    Likes Received:
    61,985
    Trophy Points:
    931
    Cool. ThrottleStop is amazing. @unclewebb is amazing. We are lucky to have both.

    Yes, that looks like an older version of CCC. Older is often better. I wish there was a way to have only the custom fan profile editor as a stand-alone non-UWP software application. My keyboard is solid white by default, which is EXACTLY what I want. I don't need the LED controls. I am living without the fan controls just to not have CCC screwing things up. If I need it to be cooler I just use FN+1 for max fans. The stock fan profile shouldn't be so lazy and slow to react to temperature changes.

    Had I been the one responsible for designing it, there would have been a discrete heat sink for each, with a 250-300W capacity for each. Always better to go at least a little bit further than the bare minimum. The chassis would be built around accommodating the needs of a show-stopping thermal solution rather than the thermal solution being constrained by a limitation in chassis dimensions. But, nobody actually builds laptops that way. Everything from the best to the worst is engineered backward instead of forward.
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2020
    DaMafiaGamer, DreDre, Joe4zio and 6 others like this.
  8. Entropytwo

    Entropytwo Notebook Consultant

    Reputations:
    19
    Messages:
    132
    Likes Received:
    72
    Trophy Points:
    41
    To be honest having had the x170 myself there is alot of unused space for a improved sink. You would start to think that they are doing this on purpose. What is the point building the best? Nobody will buy the next newest innovation. It's same as car facelifts, always keep something in your backhand so the fishes come to your bait.
     
    DaMafiaGamer, DreDre, Papusan and 2 others like this.
  9. Mr. Fox

    Mr. Fox BGA Filth-Hating Elitist

    Reputations:
    34,482
    Messages:
    37,058
    Likes Received:
    61,985
    Trophy Points:
    931
    Greatness has become relative rather than definitive. The landscape is cluttered with so much utter rubbish that being the best option does not require excellence. Superiority is achieved by being the least broken option available.
     
  10. Entropytwo

    Entropytwo Notebook Consultant

    Reputations:
    19
    Messages:
    132
    Likes Received:
    72
    Trophy Points:
    41
    Love you.
     
    Papusan, Donald@zTecpc and Mr. Fox like this.
Loading...

Share This Page