*** Official Clevo X170SM-G Owner's Lounge ***

Discussion in 'Sager/Clevo Reviews & Owners' Lounges' started by Rahego, Jan 10, 2020.

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  1. Mr. Fox

    Mr. Fox BGA Filth-Hating Elitist

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    I know. But, the flippant "it's only a laptop, so we can't expect too much" mentality is why we have so little worth caring about. We've allowed that brain cancer to metastasize. Eventually, mediocrity (or worse) becomes status quo and that makes it a self-fulfilling prophecy. When almost everyone finds it appropriate to make excuses and accommodations for the suckiness of notebook computers, you know there isn't going to be much left worth trying to salvage. Nobody expect excellence any more, and those that attribute greatness where it does not exist clearly don't know what they don't know.
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2020
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  2. 1610ftw

    1610ftw Notebook Consultant

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    They certainly do but as long as they make enough to justify a top of the line model that's all it takes.


    Obviously being in a niche market will not lead to great economies of scales but I am fine with that.

    I am not fine with bigger screens and bigger chassis disappearing altogether. First it was 20" and 19" models that disappeared and then the 18" models and now we are down to 17" screens in what was previously a 15" chassis for almost all new notebook releases which results in further performance penalties compared to previous larger designs.
     
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  3. 1610ftw

    1610ftw Notebook Consultant

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    You can say "it's only a ...." as an excuse for every mediocre product out there. The underlying principle of good enough is applied far too often these days, not only when it comes to laptops.
     
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  4. Meaker@Sager

    Meaker@Sager Company Representative

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    Its not only a laptop but it is a different design challenge and you can still do that to a high standard.
     
  5. skandal

    skandal Notebook Consultant

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    It was just a response to a too serious response from Fox about computers :p

    Laptops have been evolving to a more thin and light design and I wouldn't call them mediocre. There is a focus in portability and battery life instead of performance, and for most people (outside of this forum) that's fine. The performance compared to a desktop is mediocre, but you are trading it for more battery life and portability.
    For enthusiasts in this forum the shift sucks, and I can understand your point of view, but my fear is that we are at the point of no return. Do MSI, Asus or Acer still make DTR machines? They seem to be discontinued. I think only Dell and Clevo make DTRs now, maybe being the only 2 companies making them can lead to better machines in the future.

    I'll agree with you is in the fact that Dell released the 51m to be a DTR, and it's performance is disappointing. If you are making a 4Kg monster, do it right.
     
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  6. Mr. Fox

    Mr. Fox BGA Filth-Hating Elitist

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    Good has always been the enemy of great. Attempts to lower the bar and redefine greatness is also a major problem. Everywhere.
    Thin and light merely makes it more difficult to avoid mediocrity. The form factor itself isn't the problem. Not trying hard enough and embracing performance limitations and tolerating compromise is the problem. Blocked access to firmware settings, inadequate thermal management, stunting power limits instead of addressing poor engineering... sounds like mediocrity to me. Can thin and light run as cool as big, thick and heavy? No, of course not. But, they could do a better job of not making excuses for castrating everything, selling broken garbage and stop using form factor as a crutch. Denying access to everything accessible on a desktop enthusiast motherboard firmware is not acceptable. Dell and Clevo both suck at all of those things, as do all other notebook manufacturers. I do not expect any of that to improve. Unless it does, mediocrity will remain status quo. The only thing that makes Clevos better is @Prema and (historically, but now showing disturbing evidence of decline) the option of avoiding BGA CPU and GPU. Take away the @Prema firmware mods, socketed CPU and MXM GPU and it's just another feckless gamer-kid turdbook. There is nothing magical in the name or branding plastered on the outside. Crap is crap no matter whose name appears on the decals.
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2020
  7. 1610ftw

    1610ftw Notebook Consultant

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    Good point but they almost never do.
     
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  8. Meaker@Sager

    Meaker@Sager Company Representative

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    That's what being a consumer is in this case, looking at what meets your needs the best.
     
  9. jc_denton

    jc_denton V̖̟en̰g̻̼̰̩͙ea̲n̪c̭e̼ ͍̘̤͓̟̤Is̙͔ ̤Mi̻̭̣͎͍ͅn̰ḙ

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    I really dislike that corporate talk when companies refer to people as 'consumers' and not customers. For me, there is an inherent negative connotation associated with being seen as a 'consumer'. Where you're seen as a mindless drone that's sole purpose is not to question anything and keep buying.
    [​IMG]
     
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  10. skandal

    skandal Notebook Consultant

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    Well you have a thing called physics :p
    In a more serious note, I think the laptop industry (mainly Intel) as a whole was not prepared that Zen was such a huge success.
    They are trying to put more cores in a manufacturing process 2 generations behind. I think the manufacturers tried their best to still deliver some good products.

    I'll totally agree with you on this one, marketing a laptop as enthusiast as then not having some settings available trough BIOS is just dumb. Even more when you can change those same settings in windows. Makes no sense.
    Maybe to cover potential damage to the product? So they get less RMAs? Maybe @Meaker@Sager or other company representative can give us some explanation. Still, if you are selling it to enthusiasts manly, they are going to thinker with their machines... can't understand hidding features from a BIOS screen.

    That ship has sailed. Intel started it unfortunately, and the constant socket changes also kill the upgrade paths. So I won't blame laptop manufacturers, the problem was Intel.
     
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