*** Official Clevo P75xZM "Batman" / Sager NP9752 Owner´s Lounge | Welcome to the Batcave! ***

Discussion in 'Sager/Clevo Reviews & Owners' Lounges' started by jaybee83, Dec 11, 2014.

  1. jaybee83

    jaybee83 Biotech-Doc

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    Alright people, since us prospective ZM owners are getting kinda impatient and are starting to suffer from claustrophobia in our little ZM thread, I decided to open up this Owner´s Lounge and welcome THE BATMAN into our midst!


    Why "Batman" u ask? Look at those friggin bat-ears on the lid! :D

    Before going into externals, internals and the detailed spec sheet, here are the most important highlights for this machine (and to make sure that people don´t start asking silly questions ;) ):

    DESKTOP CPU - up to Core i7-4790K with probable compatibility for 5th Gen Broadwell Core Models! (due to Z97 chipset)

    MXM GPU - up to 980M with 8 GB GDDR5 (need I say more? none of that soldered, vRAM gimped crap)

    PSU - Stock 230W upgradeable to 300/330W Clevo models (for that extra bit of overclocking juice ;) )

    DIMENSIONS - max. thickness of 35-36mm (putting it in perspective: that´s THINNER than current P150 series laptops at 43-47mm with MOBILE CPU!)

    COOLING - A total of 7 (yes, that´s SEVEN!) heatpipes connected to both CPU & GPU with a two fan design

    NO OPTIMUS - no driver installation hassles, no added display output delay, freedom for 3D capability, overclockable display refresh rate!

    TWO M.2 PCIe PORTS - Breaking the SATA barrier and moving towards 2 GB/s throughput!

    HIGH-RES SCREEN SUPPORT - up to 4K IPS (may vary depending on reseller/vendor)

    VISUALS - Heck, who doesn´t like Batman?!

    TWO USB 3.1 PORTS - damn straight, its got ASMedia´s ASM1142 chip integrated, supporting up to two USB 3.1 ports with 10Gbps bandwidth
    --> unfortunately, this turned out to be false, even though the Clevo Service manual clearly lists the USB 3.1 capable ASMedia chip ASM1142.
    See this post for further info!

    Nuff´said for now, I´ll let some nice images take care of the rest (courtesy of "the usual leaks", bluemobility, mySn and CEG, you guys rock! ;)


    Specification sheet

    External visuals

    Additional external visuals taken from Sager page: Post by user ghegde
    Even more external visuals from Origin (thanks to user wickette for the link!): Origin EON-X
    i7-4790K at 4.5 Ghz in Batman! :D Powered by Origin
    Nice article by Notebookcheck.com including tons of very nice pictures: Notebookcheck

    Internal Visuals

    Review by HardwareLuxx
    Review by BlueMobility
    Video from CES 2015 (XMG Interview in German)
    Video from CES 2015 (Origin Report)
    Review by Notebookcheck (German)
    Initial impressions by user Gimmy
    Review thread by HTWingnut
    Initial Setup Video by user Samot
    Review by Anandtech
    Overclocking Review by Anandtech
    User Review by Ishatix

    Clevo Product Pages
    P750ZM - Chrome accents on fan exhausts
    P751ZM - Black fan exhausts

    So, ready for a purchase? Check out this great post by user ishatix that lists all vendors selling Batman in the EU!

    BATCAVE Common FAQ's
    Please read prior to posting questions.
    Regions selling / where to buy


    Exhaustive list of EU Clevo vendors by user Ishatix




    Also, please refer to the following sections for additional info on resellers:

    General Screen questions
    What screen options are available for the batman?

    FHD Panels


    LG LP156WF4 - (78% sRGB/ 72% NTSC) 35ms


    AUO B156HAN01.2 - (96% sRGB/ 74% NTSC) 25ms
    LTN156HL01 - 96% sRGB/ 74% NTSC 16 ms'

    3K Panel(s)

    Panasonic VVX16T028J00 (72% NTSC)

    4K Panel(s)

    Sharp LQ156D1JW04 (72% NTSC)
    Samsung (LTN156FL02-L01) (72% NTSC)

    Which is better Matte or Gloss?

    This is a personal preference and varies greatly depending on the type of environment you use your laptop in.

    Is there a difference between LVDS and eDP?

    Generally speaking: LVDS for FHD and eDP for high-res Displays
    There are, however, also eDP FHD screens available. eDP is basically the "newer" LVDS version and should be considered as its successor in the long term.

    IPS vs TN?

    IPS: wide viewing angles, better color reproduction
    TN: faster response times, cheaper

    interesting article in this regard (thx to lunap for this link!): http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/articles/content/6bit_8bit.htm

    What is Gamut and what is acceptable?

    Gamut is a term that generally describes the accuracy of color reproduction in a display. The higher the Gamut, the more colors a display can reproduce. Lower-Range Displays sport 60% Gamut, Standard is 72%, whereas High-End Displays start around 90% up to 95 or even 100% in rare cases. What is "acceptable" is up to you and your personal needs. Office work doesnt need anything above 60-72%, Gaming is totally fine with 72%, everything above is only REALLY important for image / video editing and creative work (or people with OCD :p)

    Screen refresh (ms) and common myths?

    General rule of thumb: the lower the refresh rate in ms, the less ghosting is discernible, especially in high-speed games such as FPS. Manufacturer info cant be trusted though, since 25 ms, even though regarded as comparably high / slow, does not show any ghosting on high-res IPS displays (based on user reports). Best to ask actual owners or check for yourself!

    4K Screens
    Is there a difference between the Sharp and the Samsung 4k Panels?
    Depends on how you define "difference". The underlying Panel tech is different (Sharp IGZO IPS RGB Stripe vs. Samsung LPS Pentile Matrix, Google is your friend!) and on paper and controlled testing environments, the Sharp panel beats the Samsung panel in pretty much all aspects. If you, the user, notice a difference side by side, however, is a completely different story and depends, as so many other things do, on your personal preference / sensibility to such things.

    What are expected frame rates in games/performance loss?
    Based on DSR reviews, one can expect about 50% performance loss on a 3K panel at identical Software and Hardware settings when comparing it with a FHD screen. With 4K, that number increased to about 70-80%.

    Can I downscale?
    Sure thing! And the scaling isnt even all that bad on 3K and 4K screens, its actually pretty crisp based on my own experience (see sig) and other user reports :)

    3K Screens
    Which resolutions scale well with 2880x1620p?
    1080p looks great on my 3K display and I´ve seen user reports saying that scaling down to 720p is fine, although more blurry than higher resolutions. So as long as u stay at 1080p or above, u should be fine even when downscaled.

    Can I downscale?
    Yes you can, see 4K Screens.

    What frame rates would I be expecting?
    See 4K Screens for reference.

    What is the performance difference between 3k and 4k gaming wise?
    Depending on the game / application I would say to expect a performance loss of around 40-60%.

    Can I upgrade to a 4k screen later if want to?
    Yes, since 3k and 4k screens both use the same connector this won't be an issue. Please see Screen options for a list of compatible screens. However, you cannot upgrade from a FHD screen to a 3K or 4K screen, since they use different cables and sometimes even different connectors! (see LVDS vs. eDP, for reference)

    Can I downgrade to FHD if I don't like it?
    Yes you can, just make sure its an eDP compatible panel! On the other hand, its impossible to upgrade from an FHD to a 3K/4K panel.

    FHD(1080p) Screens
    Which Screen do you recommend?
    Check the "MOD Section" on Luna´s summary of the best available 15.6" FHD displays.

    Can I swap eDP to LVDS if I want to change to a higher gamut?
    Suuuure, just grab a soldering iron, completely revamp your motherboard and youre good to go :p

    Common CPU Questions
    What CPU's are offered?
    Basically all CPU models compatible with the LGA1150 socket: http://www.cpu-world.com/Sockets/Socket_1150_LGA1150_H3.html

    cool thing about this: future Broadwell CPUs will use the same socket :)

    To K or not to K and why?
    K CPUs are unlocked in every way possible. If you like to tweak and get the most out of your Hardware, then by all means go for a K model. If you just want to run your hardware out of the box and cannot bother spending time tweaking, then K is not for you! As easy as that :)

    I only plan on gaming, which CPU would be best for me?
    If you are simply gaming and nothing more and are on a budget then the i5 would be the best option, however if you are able then the i7 would be far more viable as it makes use of HT which many games these days can make use of especially if you're playing high end MMO's or multiplayer (BF4 etc) Video editing, and other tasks.

    i5 vs i7
    See Hyperthreading for more information.

    i7 generally sports more CPU Cache.

    I5 does not make use of HT, which i7 has.

    Common misconception: I5 is the best chip for gaming because it is faster.. FALSE i5's are not better for gaming, they are more cost effective for gaming.

    Hyperthreading on (BF3 Multiplayer)

    Hyperthreading off (BF3 Multiplayer)

    Understanding Hyperthreading
    Please see http://www.overclock.net/a/hyperthreading-explained

    4790K vs 4790S?

    See section "To K or not to K and why?"

    Does lower TDP = lower temps?

    Yes and no. Generally, TDP describes the power envelope, in which the CPU is allowed to boost to its max. possible clocks. Depending on the CPU model, a lower TDP could mean lower clocks and thus lower peak temps. In other cases it does not make any difference whatsoever, because the voltages and clocks applied cannot saturate the given TDP envelope.

    Things to keep in mind:
    high Voltage = high Temps
    high Clocks = higher Voltage necessary = higher Temps
    high TDP = more room for the CPU to "stretch its legs" thermally and wattage/power-wise

    Why is there no Optimus? Isn't Optimus good?
    Depends on what your needs are. If youre primarily focused on battery life, then sure, Optimus is great! But check the benefits of NOT having Optimus below ;)

    Benefits of no Optimus.

    - You can OC your internal/external display to 120hz or higher (if supported)
    - You can drive higher resolutions on external displays
    - You have no input lag when driving external displays or gadgets like the Oculus Rift
    - You have the possibility to drive applications in 3D

    970M vs 980M which is best for my needs?

    How am I supposed to know what your needs are?!?! :p
    But seriously, if you plan to upgrade every 1-2 years anyways, then the 970M is enough for you. Keeping your machine for 3 or more years, however, would probably shift the focus to the 980M for being more future-proof. It also depends on your everyday usage of the GPU. Are you always playing the latest games and NEED to have every settings maxxed out? As hinted before, the best judge of your needs is YOU! So be check reviews, be aware of the 30% performance gap between the two GPUs and check what u plan to do with the gpu, then the answer will present itself to you. Of course, dont forget your available budget ;)

    How much hotter does the 980M get?

    "Hot" is a term that is completely misplaced when it comes to Maxwell chips. Personally, I cannot seem to get my 980M to even break 70C, no matter what I throw at it! Nuff said... :cool:

    Can I overclock the 970M to be like the 980M?

    It is indeed possible to push the 970M to 980M levels, as our resident Laptop reviewer and UBER-user HTWingnut has already shown in a Clevo P65x series notebook. If youre a tweaker on a tight budget, that would surely be an option for you :) Just dont cry like a baby, if 980M owners overclock THEIR cards accordingly and still leave you behind in a dustcloud :p

    What is the Max memory this unit can take?
    32GB, maybe more in the future, should DDR3 SO-DIMM modules with 16 GB capacity come widely available.

    How much memory do I need?
    If gaming only then 16GB will be fine, this will support games + multi tabbed browsers and 1-2 VM's. If doing more VM's and or require more processing for design/engineering level applications then 24-32gb is recommended. however we highly recommend 16gb at the minimum, as 8gb is easily capped, rendering you in a throttled state.

    Memory speeds? Which is best for me / my usage?
    If you're simply gaming and only using your laptop then 1600 is more than likely all you'll need. If you're doing major editing with video and other cpu intensive applications (engineering and more) then 1866/2133 may provide a slight bump. 2400 and higher is more for benchmark results as the difference is marginal. The higher the timings, the more vcore is required to run these, and if you plan on OC'ing your CPU then you will need to take this into account, else you will be dealing with higher than normal temperatures, however this is only if you plan to utilize 32gb or higher. 16gb will be fine @any speed.

    Which brand is recommended?

    M2 drives, are they worth getting right now?
    As with every new tech, M.2 drives, especially the PCIe variety, still sport pretty bad bang for your buck and at this moment in time dont really kick SATA3 2.5" SSD butt. My suggestion (opinions may differ, as with all topics) would be to wait for the Samsung SM951, the Mushkin Hyperion series or similar specced drives that should hit the market this summer / fall. Until then, ull be more than just fine with high-tier 2.5" SSDs :)

    Edit: Eurocom tested SATA / M.2 PCIe 2x / M.2 PCIe 4x in our Batman: http://www.eurocom.com/ec/benchmark(88)ec

    I saw the P941 gets temps up to 115C is that real?
    This is real and applying a thermal pad may slightly reduce the temps, however those temps were given using insane tests, though the drive itself does get hot. We recommend holding off for the SM951 which will be replacing the XP941 and has nearly double the speeds.

    Which SSD is recommended for long term / gaming?
    Crucial M series provides great bang for your buck combined with high reliability and very fast performance. If it has to be the fastest, go for either Samsung Pro 850 or SanDisk Extreme Pro Series SSDs.
    Also refer to this great article right here: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/ssd-recommendation-benchmark,3269.html

    EVO vs PRO?
    Ive seen lots of discussion on this topic and my point on this is: In the end, it comes down to personal preference! So check the reviews, ask the user base and build your own opinion :) I myself have had a great experience with my 850 Pro 1TB and wouldnt wanna go Evo at all, but other people might greatly differ from this stance.

    Sandisk vs Samsung I hear a lot about the 2.
    Based on performance and many tests, both are nearly equal, most recommend the Sandisk for cost effective reasons, however you will be fine with either.

    I see that the 4790K gets pretty hot in reviews, is this normal?
    Most reviewers use stock thermal paste which is normally applied poorly resulting in higher than normal temps, and also run multiple benchmarks which produce higher than normal real world results ( exaggerated in this case ) If pasted properly one would notice a reduction of at least 5-8C minimum. Please also refer to my overclocking / undervolting guide for more hard data on the 4790K in Batman used in worst-case scenarios (Prime95).

    How hot does this unit get under load?
    I would be surprised if my 4790K at 4 Ghz / 980M at Stock combo would exceed the low to mid 70s at ALL ;)

    How hot does this unit get under load? (normal use)
    If by "normal use" u mean web browsing, Office work, Image Editing, etc. then I´d say anywhere in the 60s, not much more.

    Does it throttle at high temps? If so how can I avoid this?
    Every hardware component has a built-in throttle that kicks in once a specific temperature threshold is reached. Tackling high temperatures can involve lots of things, such as: Repasting / Using high-perf. Thermal Pastes and Thermals Pads / increasing fan speed / Propping up the back of the machine to increase air flow / Undervolting / Underclocking / restricting TDP envelope / regular maintenance and cleaning of heatsink fins and fans / making sure the machine is used in a well-aired and cool environment, etc.

    Can I use this in my lap?
    Of course you "can" and I´m also aware that this is a "Lap-Top", but seriously? Why would anyone use a DTR on his/her lap?!?!! Just leave the damn thing on the desk and use a frigging iPad or MBP for your lap...! I personally just dont get it... But oh well, everyone is entitled to their opinion ;)

    What Thermal paste is best?
    Non-Metal based: IC Diamond and Gelid GC Extreme
    Metal-Based: CL Liquid Ultra

    Gelid GC Extreme vs CLU
    GCE is non-metal based, thus doesnt require as much careful handling as CLU, which is metal-based and thus electrically conductive. On the other hand, CLU beats any non-metal TIM, including IC Diamond and GC Extreme, hands down. So in the end, its up to you to decide if youre up to the task or not!

    I've read/used previous clevo's and the speakers were horrible, how does this unit compare to X unit?
    Thus far, based on my own experience and other user reports, this machine sports one of the best speaker systems on the laptop market and definitely THE best among Clevo machines :) But dont take my word for it, ask other users as well!
    The only "issue" I could find with the speakers is a slight sound tearing when the volume is cranked up and too much bass is used. Thus, just dial down the volume and bass, and you should be fine :)

    Does this unit have a subwoofer?
    No, only the 17 inch version of Batman sports a sub. Based on reviews, that sub doesnt really make much of a difference though...

    I work in a quiet room, how loud do the fans get under load? Normal / idle use?
    This laptop is DEAD. And I DO mean DEAD! Its unbelieveable, how friggin quite Batman is in idle / normal usage, even in a super quiet room (say, a library), its impossible to make out any fan noise. Even under stressier conditions when the fans finally DO ramp up, the noise they produce is not annoying whatsoever. Again, this is based on my own experience with this, other people more sensible to barely audible noises may differ from this opinion.

    Which card is better the Killer1525 or the Intel 7265?
    Based on recent results and reviews from others we're highly recommending the Killer1525, HOWEVER if you use Linux then we highly recommend the Intel as linux does NOT support the Killer. In the end, both cards have received stellar and abysmal reviews, so results may vary in both cases!

    I've read Killer has issues with connectivity is that still an issue?
    Due to recent driver update the Killer wireless appears to be trumping the Intel 7265 as the 7265 has reported spikes in use. These spikes, however, are not reproducible on all configurations and may only pertain to certain applications.

    I read that the Killer card is great on wireless but has issues w/ blue tooth?
    This has been fixed via recent driver / EC firmware upgrade on Clevos.

    How is the battery life?
    With such a performance punch and lacking Optimus, dont expect too much in terms of battery life! I was able to eke out 3 hours via undervolting / underclocking / switching everything off / on minimum brightness. More realistic would be 2 hours of regular usage.

    Can I game on battery?
    You will not be able to play games on battery, it's not designed for that. At best you might get 30 minutes, also expect to have some throttling. Older / less demanding games are of course a different topic. In general, it is not recommended to game on battery, as it puts unnecessary stress on it and thus speeds up its demise!

    230W vs 330W which do I need?
    230W is sufficient for stock clocks / moderate overclocks on both CPU and GPU (+15-20%) or extreme OC on one of the two (30% and up, most likely the GPU in this case ;) :p). If youre planning to tweak EVERY component of your system to its maximum stable setting, then by all means go with the 330W PSU!

    I'm Samuel Jackson from "Unbreakable", what does the battery weigh?
    Um.....no idea, why does that even matter? Anyone feel free to chime in! *lol*

    Can I still OC later if I have the 230W? If so what are my limits?
    Since I havent checked it with my power-meter yet, I can only make an educated guess: My 4790K overclocked to its max. thermal limit at 4.5 Ghz pulls around 78W under load in undervolted conditions, so lets say 80W. The 980M is rated at around 100W, that makes a total of 180W. Depending on your configuration, the rest of the system (Mobo, IO, Display, Storage, Sound, etc.) may draw anywhere between 20 and 40W, so that would leave 10-30W of headroom for overclocking the GPU. Since overclocking without overvolting has a near linear dependency of clocks vs. power consumption, that would leave enough headroom for 10-30% OC on your GPU. However, at that level, you would be constantly maxing out your PSU, so I would then recommend switching to the 330W model.

    What batteries brands are compatible w/ this unit?
    I highly recommend only going with original Clevo parts!

    General OC QUESTIONS
    What is undervolting? How do I do it?
    Undervolting lowers the voltage input into a specific component, be it CPU, GPU, RAM, or whatever. Benefits are lower power consumption and thus lower temperature without the need to also lower clocks and thus performance. However, extensive testing is necessary to ensure system stability, since too little voltage can make it crash (no harm done though, as opposed to crashes caused by overvolting!)

    HowTo: http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/the-undervolting-guide.235824/

    Undervolting vs Overclocking? Which is right for me? Pro's/Con's:
    Whatever is "right for you" depends on your everyday needs and wants. Best of both worlds would of course include overclocking while undervolting, thus getting more performance at less heat and power consumption! (see my overclocking 4790K overclocking guide, which is a nice example of parallel overclocking and undervolting :))
    Short overview:
    - Overclocking gets you more performance and scales linearly with Wattage and Temps when no overvolt is involved
    - Once you hit your Clock limit, but still have thermal headroom left, you can overvolt to get higher stability at higher clocks. But beware, overvolting scales exponentially with temps and power consumption! Thus, tedious testing and careful preparation is needed!
    - Undervolting saves you temperature and power consumption without sacrificing performance. System stability might be affected by too much undervolting.
    - Underclocking, like Undervolting, saves you temperature and power consumption, but at the cost of performance. This is a viable option for situations where noise and battery life are more crucial than performance.

    Programs for testing stability
    - Prime95 for CPU (small & large FFTs) & RAM (Blended & Custom Blended using all available RAM)
    - Intel XTU for CPU & RAM
    - Unigine Valley/Heaven, 3DMark Firestrike for GPU
    - Your favorite games with high-end graphics for GPU
    - Memtest86 for RAM
    - Desktop visuals for Display refresh rate

    Overclocking BSOD codes *your best friend*

    BSOD codes for overclocking

    0x101 = increase vcore
    0x124 = increase/decrease VTT first, if not increase/decrease vcore...have to test
    on i7 45nm, usually means too little VVT for the speed of Uncore
    on i7 32nm SB, usually means too little vCore
    0x0A = unstable RAM/IMC, increase VTT first, if that doesn't work increase vcore
    0x1A = Memory management error. It usually means a bad stick of Ram. Test with Memtest or whatever you prefer. Try raising your Ram voltage
    0x1E = increase vcore
    0x3B = increase vcore
    0x3D = increase vcore
    0xD1 = VTT, increase/decrease as necessary, can also be unstable Ram, raise Ram voltage
    0x9C = VTT most likely, but increasing vcore has helped in some instances
    0x50 = RAM timings/Frequency or uncore multi unstable, increase RAM voltage or adjust VTT, or lower uncore if you're higher than 2x
    0x109 = Not enough or too Much memory voltage
    0x116 = Low IOH (NB) voltage, GPU issue (most common when running multi-GPU/overclocking GPU)
    0x7E = Corrupted OS file, possibly from overclocking. Run sfc /scannow and chkdsk /r

    WARNING this section is for advanced users ONLY! If you are unsure or have never touched your hardware before you should seek professional help (hardware personnel NOT Dr's!)as this could permanently destroy your CPU.

    What is Delidding?

    Modern CPUs have a so-called IHS or Integrated Heatspreader on top of their CPU dies. As the name suggests, this heatspreader evenly spreads the heat onto a larger area for the respective CPU heatsink to suck up and get out of the system. In the "olden days", Intel soldered the CPU die to the IHS and thus heat transfer was very efficient. Starting with Ivy Bridge though, Intel cut costs and exchanged the solder for regular thermal interface material (TIM) / thermal paste. The idea of delidding is to remove that IHS, exchange the TIM with a high-performance paste and then either reinstall the IHS or run the CPU "bare die", thus with direct contact between the CPU die and the CPU heatsink.

    Delidding Guide
    See this link for more information:

    Why CLU?
    Generally, Coollaboratory Liquid Ultra (CLU) is the preferred TIM for delidding projects, since it sports the very best thermal conductivity. Due to its metal-based nature and thus inherent electrical conductivity, handling CLU HAS to include the utmost care and tedious preparation!

    Known issues / fixed etc
    Coil whine
    Has been verified in various units, however does not cause any issues other than small noise in quiet rooms w/ no sound. Also affects units arbitrarily, some (like mine) have unnoticeable whining sounds, that ure only able to hear in a dead quiet room when you glue your ear onto the chassis. Other cases have been documented with far worse pitches / volumes. As with everything else though, it also highly depends on the sensitivity of the respective user to such noises. For videos and sound samples, please refer to the respective posts in this thread.
    Additional info from mySn/Schenker rep:
    "We have had a report through from the RMA department regarding coil whine in this model and the 17" version. As you may be aware, we have been working with Clevo on this to help them resolve the problem and have passed a lot of information to them as well as chassis for them to test. Now that the MB revision is available the issue should be fully resolved. The Nvidia GPU buzzing is a separate issue (which Nvidia do not acknoelwsge a problem with) and there is also a rare problem with buzzing through the speakers that we are also talking to Clevo about.
    For now, I just wanted to pass on our official RMA rate of the P75xZM and P77xZM due to coil whine, which is 0.8%. I can't give you the number of chassis that we have sold for obvious reasons, but it is based on a rather large pool of data.
    Our hope is that it will instil a bit more confidence in the laptop models; though there may be a handful of customers on nbr that have said they have issues the actual percentage of owners who have experienced coil whine is below 1 in 100!"

    Flimsy / Wobbly screen
    In order to make this machine so powerful, but at the same time comparably compact / thin, the screen lid was designed to be thinner than in previous Clevo performance models. Some users have expressed worries, especially concerning frequent travels with this machine in combination with packed suitcases / backpacks / etc. Although I myself have noticed that, compared to previous laptops Ive owned, I´m more careful on how I place my Batman and what I put on top of its lid, as with every expensive piece of tech equipment I suggest: Careful handling, regular maintenance and lots of luuuuuuv! I dont find the screen so delicate as for it having the risk to fall apart by just using it in a regular manner.
    Following these simple rules will make you a happy camper indeed, just dont be surprised if it cant handle being packed in a maxed out suitcase / backpack being placed under tons of other stuff :p Absolutely NO laptop should find itself in such a situation!

    - P75xZM User Manual
    - P75xZM Service Manual
    - Driver Downloads at MySn (XMG - XMG U505 - Drivers)
    - Latest stock Bios & EC from Prema-Mod Website (also includes Clevo 980M & 970M stock vBios with overclocking functionality :))
    - Driver Downloads at station-driver (need to know your hardware component model name!)

    Display calibration profiles
    - AU Optronics B156HAN01.2 (AUO12ED) FullHD (calibrated with X-Rite i1Pro 2) source: notebookcheck review
    - Sharp LQ156D1JW04 4K/UHD (calibrated with X-Rite i1Pro 2) source: notebookcheck review
    - AU Optronics B156HAN01.2 (AUO12ED) FullHD (calibrated with BasICColor and I1 Pro profiled for daylight photography) source: user ibarron

    MOD Section
    - Prema vBios MOD for unlocked Clevo 980M and 970M MXM overclocking / overvolting / no power throttle / custom thermal protection
    Note: Prema vBios Mod includes a built-in protection against tools like Furmark and MSI Kombustor! If you flash this mod and use one of those tools, your machine will black screen and shut down! Rather use game benchmarks or something like Futuremark Firestrike / Unigine Heaven & Valley in this case!
    - PremaMod Bios with tons of unlocked features
    Summary on the best available 15.6" FHD display options (including a winner!) by LunaP
    - What to consider when planning to lap your heatsinks
    - Mr. Fox modded Desktop GPU drivers 344.75
    - Mr. Fox modded Desktop GPU drivers 345.20
    - Mr. Fox guide on how to properly use Coolaboratory Liquid Ultra TIM (including test data)
    - HowTo install a dualboot system with Windows & Linux

    - HowTo perform an .inf mod to make all drivers compatible with your GPU
    - Modded .inf supporting Clevo 980M 8GB MXM / 970M 6GB MXM in 346.87 driver (latest to support overclocking)
    - Nvidia 346.87 complete driver package including modded .inf to support 970M / 980M on Win8.1 (thx to iata for the .inf mod!) Install with Driver Signature Enforcement disabled!
    - HowTo downclock your GPU using Nvidia Inspector and make the settings stick at boot in order to save on heat and power consumption
    - HowTo circumvent Nvidia´s infamous "Clock-Block" on the current 347.52 WHQL drivers
    - HowTo swap out your display (general steps, not specific to laptop model)
    - Suggested Thermal Pad placement on GPU and CPU
    - HowTo hardcode keyboard and front light color profiles in regedit
    - HowTo exchange the spring-screws on the CPU heatsink with regular screws in order to apply more heatsink pressure (=reduce CPU temps)
    - Annoyed by your sub-100 Mhz BCLK at stock? Try this! additionally with this fix for crashes!

    The Ultimate Batman Overclock and Modding Thread!

    If you have any more infos or questions please hit me up or let me know here in the thread so i can properly update the OP! :)

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Jul 23, 2015
  2. jaybee83

    jaybee83 Biotech-Doc

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    Taming / Unleashing the Dark Knight


    Please be aware that I am NOT responsible for any kind of hardware faults / bricked systems / data loss or similar scenarios in case you decide to follow the overclocking instructions discussed in this post, thread or on NBR in general. Everything presented here is provided "as is". Be responsible, do your due diligence and take necessary precautions, while doing your research first! You have been warned!
    I myself only use overclocked settings for benchmarking, everyday usage at work / home / for gaming, etc. are done at stock or underclocked / undervolted settings in order to reduce noise and heat!

    In order for us batcave inhabitants to get the most out of our beloved rig, I decided to open up this new section that will cover all sorts of tweaks primarily aimed at managing CPU and GPU temps in order to get a more stable experience and/or a larger overclocking headroom!

    Please be aware that I dont have unlimited ressources and time, so this will be a "work in progress" for quite some time to come. I am planning to give incremental updates whenever I´ve got some new data for you :) The upside to this is, that everything posted here will have been tested by myself in person with my Batman, thus you´ll be able to rely on some real-life user data ;)

    I´ll start off by doing a "ToDo" list of sorts in order for you and myself to have an overview of what can be expected here. Requests / Ideas / Criticisms are, of course, always welcome!

    I was planning to start off the testing with the pre-installed i5-4460S CPU in order to have more thermal headroom for good comparisons with the stock configuration. This way I´ll be able to see any beneficial effects of a tweak and in the end transfer that knowledge to my 4790K, which by then will hopefully be under complete control at stock clocks with some additional overclocking headroom left for us to use! :D

    Test Settings
    Prime95, large FFTs (max. power consumption), 20 minutes (for 100% rock-stable settings that are day-to-day operation critical)
    Intel XTU built-in Stress Test, 20 minutes (what I would call "bench-stable")
    Unigine Valley maxxed out settings with native resolution (in my case 2880x1620), 60 minutes
    GPU-Z built-in Graphics Test (question mark button), 20 minutes
    Nvidia Inspector for GPU Overclocking / Overvolting
    Monitoring with HWInfo64 and Intel XTU for CPU overclocking / undervolting
    Core i5-4460S, 4 Cores / 4 Threads, Turbo Boost 3.4/3.3/3.1/3.0 Ghz on 1/2/3/4 cores
    Core i7-4790K, 4 Cores / 8 Threads, Turbo Boost 4.4/4.3/4.2 Ghz on 1&2/3/4 cores
    Nvidia Geforce 980M 8GB GDDR5 Core 1038-1126 Mhz, Memory 1253 Mhz

    Strategy (CPU) - done (for now...)
    1) Took basic steps to maximize cooling and core clocks
    propped up back of machine / set fans to max / set unlimited TDP & Amperage in XTU
    2) Downlocked to highest possible core clock that did not throttle
    Found at 3.6 Ghz base clock thermal limit reached
    3) Undervolted Core Voltage Offset in XTU to lower core temperatures / Disabled Speedstep & TurboBoost
    -125mV found stable at 3.6 Ghz
    4) Increased core clocks in 100 Mhz increments, adjusted core voltage offset for stability
    Up to 3.9 Ghz with -75mV core voltage offset thermal limit reached
    5) Switched Heatsink TIM from OCZ Freeze to IC Diamond
    Up to 4.0 Ghz with -60mV core voltage offset thermal limit reached
    6) Undervolted CPU Cache in XTU to lower core temperatures / Switched Heatsink TIM from IC Diamond to GC Extreme
    -145mV found stable at 4.0 Ghz (non-throttling) max. Prime-stable setting without throttling in my case! Anything above that will probably require delidding...
    7) Just for fun (and because ajc and wingnut kept taunting me with their clocks :p), I continued tweaking but switched from Prime95 to Intel XTU, which is less stressful on the CPU
    4.5 Ghz stable without throttling / -75mV core voltage / -145mV cache voltage (see screenhot below :cool:)
    8) After additional testing and everyday usage, I adjusted my Core voltage offsets to -50mV at 4.0 Ghz and -70mV at 4.5 Ghz. Rock-Stable now! :)


    Wanna see a 4790K at 4.5 Ghz in a laptop without throttling in action? Check the spoiler below :D


    Additional CPU Testing / Undervolting done by brother metacarpus

    Strategy (GPU) - done
    1) Flashed Prema vBios Mod to ensure no power throttling and capability of overvolting with Nvidia Inspector (Please make sure to uninstall Nvidia drivers before flashing vBios Mod!)
    a clear performance boost is detectable at identical stock clocks! very recommendable even for non-overclockers!
    2) First thing to keep in mind with the 980M is that the power delivery cannot saturate the maximum stable overclocks on both the GPU core and vRAM. Normally I would recommend to find the maximum stable GPU core clock first and only then move on to the vRAM while leaving the GPU core at max. clocks, since the core gives way more of a performance boost than vRAM does. However, since the GPU core also demands significantly more power when overclocked/overvolted than overclocked vRAM and the 980M seems to REALLY thirst for all the vRAM bandwidth it can get, its actually more prudent to first find the max. stable vRAM clocks and only THEN find the sweet spot for the GPU core clocks. But more on that later, lets find our maximum stable settings first, shall we? :)
    3) Using Unigine Valley as my benchmark/stress test of choice (all settings maxed out at max resolution, in my case 2880x1620), I upped the GPU Core clock in 50 Mhz increments and tested each step for stability, which I defined as 60 min. stable without interruptions or visual artifacting of any kind. If the increment proved to be stable, I continued with another 50 Mhz on the core. If it turned out to be unstable, I upped the core voltage by one step (+12.5 mV using Nvidia Inspector) and re-ran the test. Once a 50 Mhz increment was reached, that couldn´t be made stable even by applying the maximum overvolt of +137.5 mV, the Core clock was dialed down to the next lower 50 Mhz increment and then fine-tuned in 5 Mhz steps to find the sweet spot in Valley.
    Important Note: I have found that a higher CPU frequency actually hinders the maximum reachable GPU core clock slightly (in my case by -10 Mhz)! Thus, I decided to test at my maximum CPU clock of 4.5 Ghz on all cores.

    The graph shown below shows the minimum necessary overvolt to stabliize the respective GPU core overclock in Mhz above stock, as well as the max. GPU Temp. reached during the 60 min. Valley run. To put those overclocks into perspective, the corresponding Valley score was also included.
    Several things can be concluded from these data:
    - With the CPU at 4.5 Ghz on all cores and the GPU vRAM at stock, the maximum stable GPU Core clock I could reach was +290 Mhz above stock (1126 + 290 = 1416 Mhz) with the minimum necessary overvolt being +87.5 mV (1.0625 + 0.0875 = 1.15V)
    - Since an overclock of 150 Mhz was possible at stock voltage, it stands to reason that stock clocks can be reached with a healthy undervolt (possibly in the range of -50 to -87.5 mV), once that option is unlocked in a future Prema vBios Mod :)
    - Even though the GPU stayed super cool at all times, swapping out the stock thermal pads to Fujipoly Ultra Extreme actually improved the thermals and overclocking/overvolting stability even further (data not shown), thus highly recommended!
    - The overall Valley score scaled almost perfectly in a linear fashion up to the maximum reached stable overclock of +290 Mhz

    4) With the GPU Core out of the way for now, I then turned my focus onto the vRAM. With the GPU Core clock left at stock, I used the same method as before to test for vRAM overclocking stability. Since there is no thermal sensor on the vRAM, its important to keep an eye out for visual artifacts during the stability runs and also check the resulting scores for a steady increase.
    The graph shown below includes the data obtained from the vRAM overclocking tests in terms of Mhz above stock and resulting Valley score in correspondence to the previously generated GPU core data.
    - With the CPU at 4.5 Ghz on all cores and the GPU core at stock, the maximum attainable vRAM clock was 510 Mhz above stock. For safety reasons, that number was dialed down to +500 Mhz (2506 + 500 = 3006 Mhz)
    - Comparing the vRAM OC graph with the GPU Core OC graph, its obvious that the performance boost gained per Mhz overclock is significantly larger on the Core than on the vRAM. However, the total obtainable performance boost was identical in the end, suggesting that the 980M indeed thirsts for vRAM bandwidth even at stock core clocks!
    - Important Note: It is highly recommended to do additional vRAM stability testing with the Combined Test of 3DMark11 in Performance and/or Extreme mode, since that particular benchmark test seems to be extremely vRAM sensitive! Based on my results there, I dialed down my vRAM overclock to +460 Mhz (resulting in 2966 Mhz clock) to pass the Combined Test without hiccups.

    5) As mentioned in point 2), the power delivery system on the 980M MXM card turned out to be insufficient to run both the GPU core at +290 Mhz in combination with the vRAM clocked at +460 Mhz in a stable manner. Leaving the GPU core at +290 Mhz I wasnt even able to oc the vRAM to +50 Mhz, so this approach was quickly abandoned. Even though the GPU core brings more of a performance boost per Mhz than the vRAM (see point 4) ), it makes more sense to find a good balance point where both components are highly overclocked to get the best overall performance boost. Based on the assumption, that the GPU core consumes significantly more energy than the vRAM, I set the vRAM to the maximum stable clocks at +460 Mhz and then continued to dial down the GPU Core starting from +290 Mhz and +87.5 mV to find the highest stable point.
    Since both the overvolt and the overclock on the GPU core account for extra power consumption (and thus needed to be dialed down in parallel), I directly dialed down to the next-lower 50 Mhz increment (thus +250 Mhz), since I already knew that at that clock the minimum required voltage was +62.5 mV. Next, I upped the core clock in 5 Mhz increments while leaving the overvolt untouched to test for stability in Valley. If the overclock turned out to be unstable, I upped the voltage by a 12.5 mV step and tested again.
    Funnily, it turned out that my very first tested clock and voltage at +250 Mhz and +62.5 mV was the maximum attainable GPU core and overvolt with the vRAM at +460 Mhz and the CPU at 4.5 Ghz on all cores.
    Putting this into a quick performance perspective, the attained Valley score at those settings was 1226, which is 20.9 % above the stock score and more than double the boost attained from individually overclocking the GPU core (+9.2 %) and the vRAM (+9.5 %), respectively. Thus, my previously stated hypothesis that the vRAM draws way less power and should thus be primarily overclocked instead of the more performance-efficient GPU Core, looks to be confirmed! :)

    Strategy (RAM) - done
    Disclaimer: If youre interested in overclocking RAM, avoid G.Skill Ripjaws Kits for now!
    If youre interested in the fastest RAM possible out there, get yourself some Samsung M471B5273DH0 sticks! Theyre just available in 4 GB size and come at 1333 / 1600 Mhz at stock, but they overclock like crazy! 2400 Mhz at CL10 have been reported possible with those! :) Plus, theyre cheap! :cool:

    1) Rule of Thumb: Clocks are more important than timings! Thus, first step: loosen up timings to get more headroom in the clocks department
    Stock: Corsair Vengeance 2x8GB DDR3-2133 at 11-11-11-31 --> Boot-stable at DDR3-2400 13-13-13-33
    2) Take the CPU´s integrated memory controller out of the equation, make sure it´s really the sticks that cannot OC any more!
    Overvolted System Agent / Digital IO / Analog IO by +200 mV and tested DDR3-2600 / DDR3-2666 at 15-15-15-35 = failed --> Revert to 2400 Mhz at Stock IO & System Agent voltages
    3) Now that we´ve determined these stick´s max. clocks at 2400 Mhz, let´s tighten up the timings again! First priority is to check boot stability: Do the timings stick or does XTU revert to stock?

    Check CL timings one by one: 13-13-13-33 is boot stable, so check 12-13-13-33, then 11-13-13-33, etc. Once Limit is found for first value, go to second one, e.g. 11-12-13-33 and so on...
    --> Tightest bootable timings found at 2400 Mhz 11-12-11-13

    4) After finding the tightest bootable timings, stability testing needs to be done with Prime95 (custom blend test for 20 min. using 95-98% of available free RAM - its important that the run finishes WITHOUT ERRORS! Noticeable by threads stopping to be stressed, so keep an eye out for that during testing), again single-file with each timing, while the other four are "loose" (e.g. starting with 11-13-13-33, then 13-12-13-33 afterwards)
    Unfortunately, I was not able to get 2400 Mhz Prime-stable, even with extra loose timings, overvolted digital / analog IO and System Agent (each +200mV), so I started concentrating on 2200 and 2133 Mhz with the tightest possible timings
    5) Since 2200 Mhz and 2133 Mhz are so close to each other, it´s worth benchmarking both with the tightest possible primary timings that are Prime95-stable (10 runs each with MaxxMem, noting the highest Copy, Read, Write and lowest Latency results)
    2200-12-12-11-15 and 2133-11-11-11-15 were determined to be Prime-stable and compared with MaxxMem. 2200 Mhz won out, confirming the rule of thumb that higher clocks are more important than tighter timings!
    6) Now that I know where to put my focus on, it´s time to tweak the secondary and tertiary timings to squeeze every bit of performance I can get my hands on out of these sticks ;) The usual strategy: Find best settings that is bootable, then check for Prime95-Stability. Usually, RAM timings have to be tightened (thus, lesser values equal more performance), but there is one exception: tREFI (the last timing shown in Intel XTU) actually has to be maximized! It defines the time period, after which a ram cell is being refreshed. The less refreshes occur per second, the less the respective RAM cells have to pause their operation, thus increasing performance.
    7) Now that the max. stable RAM clocks and timings have been determined, its time to undervolt the CPU System Agent and the analog & digital IO areas. They control the integrated memory controller, so it´s important to only do undervolt testing on them AFTER RAM OC has been successfully applied! The usual strategy is applied as described to the core offset and cache offset undervolts in the CPU section.
    So as it turns out, undervolting the System Agent and analog / digital IO sections of the CPU does NOT bring any positive side effects with it! So best to leave those values at stock :) For more details check this post right here

    Alright, time to put this machine to the test! I have included all Tools and Drivers, as well as the test conditions that I have used to set up and bench my rig, to help you guys follow suit in case you´d like to reproduce my results. First batch covers the results at Stock in comparison with my previous laptop (Clevo P150HM) overclocked in all regards to the absolute limit!


    Here are a few pointers to correctly interpret the results: Stock / CPU & RAM OC / GPU OC / Complete OC & Power Consumption

    General Notes:
    * Performance significance was drawn at +/- 3.0%, anything within that limit was defined as non-significant and thus not differing from the comparison value.
    * Wattages were measured with a powermeter in the respective power socket and the maximum value during a benchmark run was noted. Since the 330W PSU in usage has an 87% efficiency rating, those peak wattage values had to be converted to the actual wattage load on the PSU, which in turn gave the real system power consumption. Since the stock PSU is rated at 230W, real load values in the range of 220-240 W were considered "barely sufficient" when used with a stock PSU, since its not recommended to run a PSU at its limit for longer periods of time.

    - Storage did not show any significant differences due to it being the same as in the previous Config
    - RAM showed both improvements and losses, probably due to tighter timings on old config and Desktop Chipset and improved CPU IMC on new config
    - Some Tools could be more dependent on higher CPU Clock instead of Number of Cores, Cache or CPU Architecture
    - Improvements in the range of up to ~25% can mostly be attributed to CPU power, whereas higher improvements are pretty much always entirely GPU dependent

    - CPU and RAM dependent Benchmarks could be clearly identified by improvements in Bench scores ranging from 3.2 % to 12.1 %. Thats with a CPU OC of 12.5% and RAM OC of 3.1% combined
    - Older or graphically less demanding Benchmarks naturally profited the most, since the GPU was basically SO fast that the CPU could not keep up anymore
    - Interestingly, PCMark7 has less of a CPU impact than PCMark8
    - Even though the clock frequency of the RAM was just upped by 3.1 %, Bandwidth could be increased in the range of 5-12 % due to tightening up ALL timings

    - GPU dependent Benchmarks could be clearly identified by improvements in Bench scores ranging from 5.6 % to 21.0 % compared to the CPU & RAM OC configuration. Thats with a GPU Core OC of 22% and a vRAM OC of 18%
    - Basically all benchmarks involving graphical tests profited from the higher GPU clocks. Exceptions to the rule included PCMark 8 and the Cinebench 11.5 & 15 OpenGL tests
    - Interestingly, PCMark 7 profited significantly from the GPU OC, whereas PCMark 8 did not. It could be due to different weighing of the GPU performance subscores in these two benchmarks

    - Comparison of the complete system OC (CPU / RAM / GPU) to stock configuration showed overall improvements in all non-storage dependent benchmarks in the range of 5.9% to 21.3%
    - Comparing P751ZM and P150HM in their maxed out OC configurations, improvements of up to +113% can be seen, averaging in around 38% overall system performance boost (+27% in CPU & RAM / +60% in GPU performance)
    - Concerning the observed peak wattages during the benchmark runs, it becomes obvious that a 330W PSU is necessary or at least advisable in a total of 8 out of 20 different benchmark scenarios when overclocking all system components to their maximum stable values. The stock 230W PSU is however sufficient for moderate overclocks on both CPU and GPU

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Mar 17, 2015
  3. jaybee83

    jaybee83 Biotech-Doc

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    Benchmark Section

    Alright folks, its time to put your batmobiles to the test and compete for the Batcave throne!!!

    Who will prove to have the darkest of knights? Which Batman will rule them all? Take part and find out!

    First off, let´s set down some ground rules...

    Benchmarks: Any and all tools are allowed. For a list of the most popular / common benchmarks, check my overclocking section in post no. 2 :)

    Benchmark Settings: For proper comparison´s sake, we of course need to define at which settings we run those benchmarks. My suggestion would be to run everything Futuremark based at the predefined profiles (Performance, Extreme, Ultra, etc.), same goes for others like Cinebench or Catzilla, etc. As for Unigine benchmarks, I´d recommend 1080p / 3K / 4K resolutions with all settings maxxed out, respectively (Beware that Sanctuary has an additional HDR option that needs to be activated inside the Benchmark that is not included in the Launcher!)

    Machines: Let´s keep this to ourselves for now, so I´d say that only 15 and 17 inch variants of the Batman are admitted to this Benchmark Section ;) I´ll inform our 17 inch brothers in their owner´s lounge once this section is open for business :)

    Submissions: I would suggest to adhere to a uniform submission standard in order for me to efficiently add the results to this section. The following points would be critical to include:

    - Hardware configuration:
    *CPU model with clocks on all cores / Core & Cache Voltage (Throttling?)
    *GPU model with core and vRAM clocks / Core voltage
    * RAM clocks together with tCL / tRCD / tRP / tRAS / tRFC timings and Command Rate
    * in cases like PCMark / AS SSD / Anvil Storage Utilities: storage type, brand, model and size

    --> u can include all these infos by using CPU-Z / GPU-Z / HWInfo, etc in a screenshot

    - Score Verification: Best done by either providing a link to an official score page (Futuremark, for example) or providing a screenshot where the benchmark score is shown, together with an open test document stating your nickname here at NBR and hardware info using CPU-Z and similar tools (see above)

    Example screenshot with my best Firestrike run:

    In order to stay unbiased, I will refrain from taking part in the Benchmark rankings, this way you can be sure that im not artificially pimping up my scores or discarding yours ;) :p

    Soooo, lets the benching begin! show me what you got, Batcave-Inhabitants! :D


    Firestrike (Total Score)
    1. 10770 by LetiferX
    2. 10679 by superkyle1721
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2015
    poenie, Mr. Fox, Gokils and 8 others like this.
  4. wickette

    wickette Notebook Deity

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    need I say more? none of that soldered vRAM gimped crap

    You know what they think of your laptop the gimped crap buyers :mad: ? I hope you experience horrible throttles on your 4790K niahaha
    jaybee83 and moviemarketing like this.
  5. bigspin

    bigspin My Kind Of Place

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    I asked about optimus from scan. Waiting for reply.
    Go to hell Wick :mad:
  6. jaybee83

    jaybee83 Biotech-Doc

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    lol, easy people! to each his/her own :)

    no offense intended wickette, go ahead and enjoy ur brand-new P650SG beast ;) whereas we will take care of any potential throttling issues by delidding, repasting and other mods ;) no worries! :D

    and chillax bigspin, I´m sure wickette didn´t mean it like that :)

    anyways, back to topic: good to know bigspin, keep us updated on the Optimus front! also looks pretty much like theres no subwoofer, at least nothing shows up on the internal pics that would resemble a sub.
  7. bigspin

    bigspin My Kind Of Place

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    Totally cool here. Just trying to poke wick...it's morning and too lazy. :p
    Scan said they'll get back to me soon. They are currently testing the system. Clevo perhaps decided to include optimus to improve battery life.
  8. jaybee83

    jaybee83 Biotech-Doc

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    unlike! so they spontaneously decided to include optimus, after all? ugh, lets hope not...
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  9. redbytes

    redbytes Notebook Consultant

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    December 16th from mysn... that's great. Now I just have to find the money :D
  10. IKAS V

    IKAS V Notebook Prophet

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    Stupid question time!
    I see the black coated heat pipes are they just for looks or do they help with cooling? What kind of coating is it?
    They must add something since most people don't open up the bottom of there laptops just to stare at the cooling system.
    Now I'm no expert or anything but my I'm thinking if you coat something it'll act as sort of an insulator and actually be hotter than if it was bare.
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2014
    Kaozm likes this.

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