*OFFICIAL* Alienware X Series Owners Lounge and Discussion

Discussion in '2015+ Alienware 13 / 15 / 17' started by HaloGod2012, May 11, 2021.

  1. Mr. Fox

    Mr. Fox BGA Filth-Hating Elitist

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    100%... they have lost all of us and there is little or no opportunity for redemption at this point. They aren't looking for it, maybe even oblivious to their own failures and demonstrations of incompetence, and we trust them about as far as we can throw them. They didn't really have much choice. Finding a new market was a matter of survival when they alienated (pun intended) the group that made their brand famous. They're still riding on the coattails of that legacy even though they bear no resemblance to what they once were.
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2021
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  2. Lakshya

    Lakshya Notebook Consultant

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    Not at all mate, you probably misunderstood my post. I did go through my post again, and in case I happen to come across that way, I would like to clarify the same.

    I very well know that Alienware is indeed delving deeper into their fetish for thin and lights, which is pretty obvious given their move towards the X series. But my point was that I don't like that AW is heading towards that direction at all (as if the current m15/m17 R4's weren't thin enough). It's now getting to the point that the distinction between a Razer Blade and an Alienware can no longer be made, which could possibly mean no Max P options in the future (even if they threw a Max P in there, it is certainly going to throttle. And the m17 R4 was housing a 150W GPU, no one would expect the X series to handle that for sure). Alienware loses a point here itself.

    If anyone from this group was heading AW, we would like to keep this brand unique and different from others, is what I meant. The current m15 r5 Ryzen edition, GizmoSlipTech showed how even on a CPU only load like Cinebench, it could barely handle 53W of power at 90C. So after the omission of the vapor chamber, this now has been reduced to Macbook-tier thermals. So how would the X, which is thinner than the current m15 fare any better at all? Let AW try. All that cost is going to reflect heavily on RMAs. Razer will continue to be the thin and light it used to be, but AW will lose its status for sure, which is already diminishing anyway. For my previous post I'd like to say it again, I know they are chasing them, but they shouldn't, is what I meant. "Why does Alienware feel the need to compete with Razer" is what I said. I do agree they are taking that route to Razer here, but why they're doing so is beyond me. So please don't take it that way, mate. I guess I should have been more clear about it.
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2021
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  3. Lakshya

    Lakshya Notebook Consultant

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    Yeah. Dell is likely doing this, so that if a customer complains that his laptop is overheating, customer representative will ask the user to lower TCC offset to 15. Overheating solved like magic, as most users don't even know what TCC offset is, and therefore they are unaware of the pitfalls of altering the offset. I'll tell you how bad Dell service really is.

    I had a Dell Inspiron 5577 Gaming laptop with the i7 7700HQ, my first gaming laptop which I purchased in 2018. After 6 months the CPU started running hot. Dell sends a technical rep, who couldn't solve it and made it worse. I had terrible temps going up to 100C with core differentials of over 20C, at just 35ish W on CPU only loads, which is unacceptable on a gaming laptop.

    My Conversation with Dell Support on Overheating

    Me: Sent a screenshot showing how the CPU runs up to 100C during NFS Payback

    Dell Support: For NFS Payback, recommended specs are not met by a GTX 1050 system, so maybe thats why it's running hot. Try another game. (Ridiculous argument)

    Me: Showed them another game where CPU hit 100C again. Showed COD Infinite Warfare.

    Dell Support: Okay. Now turn off turbo boost.

    Me: But why? That will deteriorate performance right? I already told that CPU likely isn't making proper contact with heatsink, hence the high core differentials. Also the CPU is rated for 45W, so why is it throttling at 35W CPU only, and 22W during gameplay?

    Dell: Those core differentials you just showed are probably because those cores are not loaded. Your laptop is working as per the design. (Very commonly spammed phrase in Dell ecosystem)

    Me: Did you look at the CPU Usage? 100%.

    Dell: I understand, but we have to follow the protocol, as instructed to us by our higher authorities. So please turn off turbo boost.

    It was pretty clear that I need to do something in order to convince them to send out a technician to replace that warped heatsink. CPU was maxing at around 85C without turbo, as the wattage went down considerably with an obvious dip in performance as well. So I slowed my fans down so that temps can rise.

    Me: Temps are back at 94C again. This is without turbo boost, so kindly schedule the technician visit.

    Dell: Last step, kindly boot into BIOS. And do the stress test there.

    Me: How much more testing you need me to do? Already a lot of hours have been spent in the process, so no more testing please.

    Dell: BIOS test runs outside the influence of any OS. So it rules out any software issues.

    Me: Any OS/software issue is not going to load the CPU/GPU beyond 100%. So your argument does not hold ground. Secondly, I purchased this to play games, which is literally the purpose of a gaming laptop. You can't tell me to be fine with whatever the BIOS shows.

    Dell: But dear, this is a mandatory step in troubleshooting. Please share with us a photo of the temps you get there.

    I booted into BIOS, found how the stress test wasn't making the CPU warm at all. There was no way to check the clock speeds either, and no way to check GPU temps at all. I found the BIOS stress test was probably gimped in Dell's favour. Ran Dell SupportAssist's software and upon running their combined stress test, got temps to 100C on the CPU, and reported the screenshot.

    Dell: We agree, but please do the BIOS test as advised.

    Me: It's a CPU only load which doesn't even touch the GPU. How does that cover that use case where the GPU is lit up?

    Dell: (clueless) please do bios test.

    I then decided to roll the laptop, covered it with a blanket. Managed to get the CPU to 95C. If Dell is intentionally throttling CPU within BIOS, thats really bad. But I had to get the heatsink replaced somehow from Dell, as only then the core differentials would come down. Which meant I had no choice but to do this.

    Me: Here you go. Any more testing and I'll complain to the seniormost department.

    Dell finally agreed, sent over a technician.

    See, this is the amount of work you have to put in, to get a technician to service your laptop. Despite showing them how the i7 7700HQ was throttling way below the advertised TDP, they don't care to listen. And with the introduction of TCC offset, cases involving warped heatsink are likely going to get even more complicated.

    What happened during the technician visit: He wasn't able to fix it despite the heatsink swap. Technician wondered why GPU is running at 83C and CPU is running at 100C. (He doesn't know obviously that GPU die is much bigger, so it's easier to cool GPUs than CPUs). Technician then called up customer care, the customer rep first questioned his ability to apply thermal paste. Then he was told to download Intel DPTF (the cancer software), he ended up downloading some other laptop's DPTF which caused BSOD. I decided to act like I didn't know much about it, and said to Dell, what are you going to do about this now. They still continued to be in denial, and continued to say that your laptop is working as per design despite it throttling at just 20W during gameplay and going below the base clock at times. So I decided to hit the court, and somehow this was enough to wake Dell up and they refunded my money as an out of court settlement.

    Dell is super clever at rejecting overheating claims these days. The trick they play is, they would divert your case to escalations team who takes a lot of time in providing resolutions, and has fully planned to deny any overheating complaints you make. You cannot reach out to the escalation team yourself, unless they decide to give you a call. The worst part is, if you contact customer care normally or even social media team, they'll only say that the case is with escalations team and we can't help. You'll be stuck in an infinite loop, so don't let the cases go to escalations team is one tip. Even better, don't buy anything which bears the name Dell/Alienware.
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2021
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  4. Reciever

    Reciever D! For Dragon!

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    Surprised that lesson still needs to be said after the 17 r2 problems.
     
  5. Game7a1

    Game7a1 ?

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    [​IMG]
    So, the x15 is a thing confirmed by Nvidia. (source: TechPowerUp)
    Edit: Articles about the x15 and x17 are already coming out. Here's one from The Verge.
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2021
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  6. Papusan

    Papusan Jokebook's Sucks! Dont waste your $$$ on Filthy

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    If you’re an Alienware enthusiast, be aware that the company’s mainstay graphics amplifier port is missing. We asked Alienware about this, and it provided this statement to The Verge:

    Today’s latest flagship desktop graphics cards achieve graphical power beyond what the Alienware Graphics Amplifiers (as well as other external graphics amplifiers) can successfully port back through PCI (and Thunderbolt) connections. For Alienware customers who are already purchasing high-end graphics configurations, the performance improvements from our Alienware Graphics Amplifier would be limited. While improvements would be noticeable, in many cases it wouldn’t be enough to justify purchasing an external amplifier and flagship graphics card. So instead, we are using that additional space to offer extra ports and thermal headroom which provides a better experience for all gamers purchasing this product.

    Right from the horse’s mouth. The new thinness stopped the implantation of the GA port. The same reason also for skipping the numpad on the X17.
    https://www.theverge.com/2021/6/1/2...ia-rtx-3080-price-release-date-features-specs

    "in many cases it wouldn’t be enough to justify purchasing an external amplifier and flagship graphics card. So instead, we are using that additional space to offer extra ports and thermal headroom which provides a better experience for all gamers purchasing this product"
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2021
  7. Lakshya

    Lakshya Notebook Consultant

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    Alienware's way behind many manufacturers these days. In the pursuit of Razer's form factor, they're getting beat by other brands, and most recently, they got the L from Asus this time.

    1. Lack of AGA Port: @Papusan, because they want to prevent the user from using the AGA port and getting a possible 3080 Super/4080 in the future. Asus on the other hand, instead made an entire product line out of this, the Flow X13 and people are already liking it. They even plan on including the proprietary egpu interface into their upcoming lineups. Who knows, they may even allow future 4080 stuff to run on the flow x13 (not sure how much that thing would be bottlenecked by the CPU though :p)

    2. Vapour Chamber: AW removed VC on all their laptops, whereas Asus has finally included a vapour chamber for their Strix G15 Advantage Edition. It also gets LM for both CPU and GPU. At least Asus doesn't obsess over thickness like AW does. They keep both the Strix and Zephyrus lineups so that people can get whatever they really want. They claim a 25W increase in cooling capacity over the previous 30 series models. Although final reviews are yet to be seen, it does make for a good first impression.

    Alienware should really learn from what Asus is doing. When all brands are throwing every bit of R&D in their arsenal - LM on GPUs, Vapor Chamber, AW is obsessed with 100C being normal. AW is no longer the Alien Tech it once claimed to be, in fact even Hoomans are doing better lol.

    Edit: Found out that the X15 from AW has a 90W 3080. That's yet another L right there. Quad Fans, eh?
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2021
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  8. Papusan

    Papusan Jokebook's Sucks! Dont waste your $$$ on Filthy

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    All is about the Z-height from AW nowadays. The shrinking race continue. Less I/O ports (x15 even worse and with 3 less ports than the x17), No AGA port, still not a maxed out battery (87 Wh). No network port, no cherry low-profile mechanical KB or mem so-dimm slots for the x15 and no real KB with num-pad for the 17,3 inch model. You get less of everything.

    Alien autopsy: Meet the radical 'Element 31' cooling inside Alienware's new X-series gaming laptops pcworld.com

    Here's what Alienware's mysterious Element 31 is made of, and how it works.

    Element 31—named for gallium’s 31st place on the periodic table—is essentially an encapsulated gallium liquid metal and one of the exotic materials Alienware used to make the stupidly thin Alienware x15 and x17 laptops....

    Element 31 yielded a significant performance advantage too. North said the company saw a 7.5 degree improvement over the conventional thermal grease the company has used before. North noted that the grease Alienware used was already the “best in class” and no slouch.

    “It looks like a grease, you apply it, compress the heat sink by screwing it down, it breaks the bonds of the silicone so we get liquid-metal to die touch points and to the base of the heat sink touch points,” he said.

    Despite Element 31 not having the electrical conductivity of conventional liquid metals, North did say Alienware still took the extra safety step of fencing Element 31 off which is what most laptop makers have had to do with their liquid-metals.... Yeah, it need to be safe to apply when we know how Dell's in-hired outsourced tech team handle things. Better safe than sorry.

    Dell's lead thermal engineer Travis North is the main spokesman for the 100C beauty and also the man behind this messed up thermal solution...


    [​IMG]

    I would be damn mad if I had to struggle in blind with all needed ports on the back. But I expect Dell will try up-sell their Dell Docking Station as stated in the I/O specs. And I hate dongles. Only Apple-books have less I/O ports on the sides.
    upload_2021-6-1_11-23-1.png
    upload_2021-6-1_11-38-6.png
    No Network port for the x15. Dongles needed.
    upload_2021-6-1_11-49-25.png
    Alienware x15 R1 Setup and Specifications
    View PDF


    Alienware x15 R1 Service Manual
    View PDF


    Alienware x17 R1 Setup and Specifications
    View PDF


    Alienware x17 R1 Service Manual
    View PDF


    Alienware's x15 and x17 Are Thinner than Ever, and Use Custom Element 31 Cooling tomshardware.com

    The cherry on top. Alienware is also bringing back RGB lighting on the touchpad, but that will only show up in models with an RTX 3080 GPU.
    Vapor Chamber is an expensive feature. Hence will only be offered in their High-end as the new thin X-series. But only for the X17.

    (Note that Element 31 will only come in configurations with an RTX 3070 or RTX 3080).
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2021
  9. ratchetnclank

    ratchetnclank Notebook Deity

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    Yep butcher the lower end to make the new thin crap seem a more attractive option.
     
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  10. mehtenj94

    mehtenj94 Notebook Consultant

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    X15 is gimped compared to even m15 r5. No upgradeable RAM even. X17 top end is heavier than the old m17r4 with just the upgradeable RAM being an advantage. No reason to get either. I’ll keep my Legion 7 for the time being lol. They could have put desktop grade GPU on the x17 at least.
     
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