*OFFICIAL* Alienware m15 Owner's Lounge

Discussion in '2015+ Alienware 13 / 15 / 17' started by ssj92, Oct 25, 2018.

  1. etern4l

    etern4l Notebook Deity

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  2. Joikansai

    Joikansai Notebook Deity

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    Yes 8750H with discount maybe worth to consider. But, personally if I’m on laptop market now i won’t get last gen cpu if new one is already out. It was like skylake 6700Hq’s to kabylake 7700HQ, better performance and more power efficient, even on some gaming may be not noticeable, but cpu hunger titles like SoTR you’ll enjoy the extra boost (maybe also extra heat lol:D), but hey this’s forum for repasting and tweaking masters right. Power limit throttling would be “cracked” by users here, like @hackness on this MSI forum, @David Kirchik on this Razer forum etc.
    This maybe not fair comparison due different brand but we can see some advantages having new cpu.
     
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  3. faenil

    faenil Notebook Enthusiast

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  4. etern4l

    etern4l Notebook Deity

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    Microcode is hardware my friend.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microcode

    Some reading material regarding the 9750H's improved performance:
    https://www.notebookcheck.net/9750H-del-vs-8750H-vs-9750H_11343_9576_11352.247596.0.html
    https://www.notebookcheck.net/That-...tperform-a-Core-i7-9750H-laptop.421361.0.html

    :)
     
  5. Aivxtla

    Aivxtla Notebook Evangelist

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    You won’t get a proper fix till Intel makes a hardware change/architectural change to how SMT works. Unlike AMD’s SMT implementation where the cached data for parallel threads are isolated from each other I think the issue is that with Intel’s Hyper Threading the parallel thread caches aren’t isolated from each other which is what’s making the situation worse in terms getting a proper fix.
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2019
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  6. faenil

    faenil Notebook Enthusiast

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    Microcode update is a software patch to modify hardware-level instructions, not a hardware fix.

    For more info on the protections implemented in the last revisions, see
    https://www.intel.com/content/www/u...ngineering-new-protections-into-hardware.html

    I'd choose a HW fix *even if* that would mean losing 5% performance (because the CPU itself is less efficient for other reasons, or it throttles more, or whatever).

    Furthermore, hardware solutions are generally more thoroughly tested than any solution that "we can fix later, if the fix turns out to be suboptimal"...because of obvious reasons. You can usually still also fix a hw mistake with more microcode updates but...you know what I mean
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2019
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  7. Joikansai

    Joikansai Notebook Deity

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  8. etern4l

    etern4l Notebook Deity

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    Minor semantics, personal biases and preferences notwithstanding, the main takeaways from the Intel doc are clear:

    Q1. Are there any differences in the level of protection provided by software mitigated and hardware mitigated versions of these SKUs?

    A: No. We expect that the level of protection equivalent whether you have microcode update (MCU) based or hardware-based mitigations in place. The hardware-based mitigations are part of our ongoing commitment to advance security at the silicon level.

    Q2. Are there any differences in performance between software mitigated and hardware mitigated versions of these SKUs?

    A: For application based workloads, representative of typical usage, such as SYSmark* 2014 SE, PCMark10, WebXPRT 2015, and 3DMark Skydiver Physics the data confirms that the performance between steppings is the same within the normal run to run variation. For some synthetic I/O workloads, we have observed a performance difference between steppings. These synthetic I/O workloads are not representative of mainstream usage.
     
  9. faenil

    faenil Notebook Enthusiast

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    To be honest, I don't understand your tone.
    I am aware of the performance differences and how the fixes are implemented, and I formed my opinion after researching the subject and also based on Intel's docs.

    The protection level is the same, the performance differences are *usually* minor, unless you do a lot of I/O.
    If you do a lot of I/O, then I bet you will see the impact, and that is confirmed by Intel.
    That impact probably applies to the HW fixed silicon too, I would not be surprised. However, I would expect the perf decrease to be smaller.
    I agree with @Aivxtla that a HW redesign is needed, and that will come in the future, hopefully :)
    A good read: https://www.anandtech.com/show/1365...ith-spectre-and-meltdown-hardware-mitigations

    I still believe a HW implementation of the fix is preferable even if for any unforeseen reason it were to lead to a lower perf and I can't see any argument pro 8th gen (beyond the price), but I respect everyone's opinion.

    You don't think the HW fix is worth the higher price? That's totally fine, I respect your opinion.
    My opinion is that it does (if you're buying a new laptop) and I provided a few arguments pro that.
    Does it justify an upgrade to 9th gen, if you already have 8th gen hw? Probably not.
    Different people have different needs.

    Let's agree to disagree, it's totally fine ;)
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2019
  10. Terreos

    Terreos Notebook Deity

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    Well sure. Plenty of people want the new shiny. Myself included. But sometimes you can see a few hundred dollars difference in price from one cpu generation to the next. So it's just smart to bring up that if you want a good deal the last gen cpu is very similar.

    I personally take the new one myself but, I hate be out of date. :confused:
     
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