*OFFICIAL* Alienware Area-51M R1 Owner's Lounge

Discussion in '2015+ Alienware 13 / 15 / 17' started by ssj92, Jan 8, 2019.

  1. doofus99

    doofus99 Notebook Deity

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    There are scaling issues only with badly written Windows apps, and as time goes by all apps become better. So I have experienced a couple of apps like that, but by far, apps work perfectly in 4K. Text on 4K is of unparalleled clarity and detail. Both on 15" and on 17" and even on my wife's 13" MacBook Pro, "retina" screens are instantly recognisable for their immaculate fonts and great graphics. It is as if you're reading a very expensive book printed at the best presses.
     
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  2. gthirst

    gthirst Notebook Evangelist

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    Just got to the desktop on mine. Immediately noticeable backlight bleed but I'll give it a minute to warm up. Doing a fresh install of windows to an SSD

    Edit: the SSHD is so bad lol, just wanted to download drivers but it's so slow its unusable with that useless drive. I wouldn't even consider it for games.
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2019
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  3. Kormi

    Kormi Notebook Guru

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    I'm in Sweden too, lets see who gets it first :D
    Hope we both get one without big issues.

    Gonna change anyhting in it or repaste etc?
     
  4. Spartan@HIDevolution

    Spartan@HIDevolution Company Representative

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    SSHD's are the biggest gimmick ever known to humanity. Like if they claim that the drive has part HDD and part SSD, how in the world does the drive know what data to put on the faster SSD part and what data to put on the slower HDD section of it? Do you trust its controller to be smart enough to know that? I wouldn't, not in a million years. Either get an SSD or get an SSD, there's no way around that.
     
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  5. Spartan@HIDevolution

    Spartan@HIDevolution Company Representative

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    What cave have you been living in? DPI Scaling has been one of the biggest issues since Windows 8 and Windows 10, reason being is that Windows 7 although wasn't perfect, at least it was way better since it performs DPI scaling on a system wide level. Windows 8 and Windows 10 do DPI scaling on a per app basis. That means some apps will scale perfectly and others that don't support DPI scaling well will either have blurry text or misaligned buttons.

    Still not a perfect solution but way better than the default DPI Scaling:
    Also read this: How to change DPI settings for 'classic' apps on Windows 10 April 2018 Update
     
  6. Fire Tiger

    Fire Tiger Notebook Deity

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    I have zero Clevo hate, infact it was the brand I was about to buy before the A51m was announced.

    But should anyone compare a supercar that's been enhanced performance wise (prema-mod) to a car thats just been released? Give it a chance?

    In my opinion there has been too many prema mod Clevo users bashing the A51m.
     
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  7. ssj92

    ssj92 Neutron Star

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    Overall appearance - M18x
    Overall chassis material - M18x (metal inside out)
    LCD enclosure - M18x (edge to edge glass, aluminum back panel)
    LCD choices - P870 (newer times, more standard 17.3" panels so many options)
    Ports - Tie (for their time both have good selection) [Although M18x has HDMI IN which is very useful for me]
    Performance - P870 series (obviously)
    Cooling - P870 (vapor chamber)
    Speakers - P870 for overall loudness/sound stage, M18x for bass
    Keyboard - M18x
    Trackpad - Tie (I've owned 2 P870 and 5 M18x and they're both on a similar level IMO)
    Battery life - M18x (iGPU only mode detroys P870 dGPU only mode battery obviously)
    Power delivery - Tie in terms of power usage (both can use 2x330w ac adapters although P870 has better overall power delivery design due to desktop class hardware
    Upgradability - Tie (M18x can use 580M - 880M series, R2 can use 580M to 1060/1070) (P870DM was crippled and requires MXM mods to support newer Clevo cards but P870DM3+ can use newer cards with minimal mods)
    Workability - P870 (M18x requires disassembly just to get to CPU/GPU but P870 has almost everything under the bottom panel)

    I wouldn't consider any Clevo w/o a PremaMod bios. Anyways this is my personal opinion. :p


    Yup, MacOS destroys Windows in DPI scaling. My macbook looks really good but windows still has many DPI issues.
    Yup, just wait until I get this thing. I'll make it run like a super car (hoping those firmware limits aren't too harsh) :D
     
  8. gthirst

    gthirst Notebook Evangelist

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    So doing some early testing. Doing AIDA64, Intel XTU, and ThrottleStop.

    With stock thermal pads/paste, about 5 seconds after I start the benchmark I hit 90C. The fans then start to play catch up. I hit thermal throttling after probably about 30 seconds. After the fans catch up and the system seems content with 90C, the thermal throttling stops and the power throttling kicks in.

    So, I went to do an undervolt. Core and cache at -.125, system didn't crash. No thermal throttling this time, but very fast to 90C. Power limit throttling still. I set ALL turbos to 40 in TS - instantly stopped power limit throttling and temps dropped to the mid 70s. Like, within 3 seconds.

    I don't think my CPU likes going near its max turbo. Overall, THIS IS A GOOD THING. I haven't owned a laptop in a few years that didn't take a little undervolting or tweaking, and this is super cool when just dropping down a little bit. I think the OC profiles will have 0 real world application, but you might be able to get a huge run in from cold boot on a benchmark if you want to do that for whatever reason.

    I'm comparing this to a Lenovo Legion y740 2080 max-q. They basically have mirrored settings and both are doing good thermally. The Alienware Area-51m is running extremely cool and all I had to do was drop the turbos a bit. Will continue to tweak and report back.

    edit: Setting all to 45 (4.5ghz) made it go into the mid 80sC and brought back power limit throttling. Lowering to 43 seems a nice "sweet" spot for my build - 75-85C stable with no power limit throttling. I'll run Firestrike a handful of times at this setting to see what a "real world"/"stable" score looks like. 44 makes it go mid 80s, but no power limit throttle. That said, its a bit hot for my liking.

    Also, where is manual fan control for Alienware? Is there a hot key? On the Lenovo I just hit FN+Q and the fans go full blast. When I updated the A51m bios, the thing went on an insane fan loudness that I've never seen in a laptop before, I'd love for that to be an option!

    edit: Just found in command center the "thermal" options, which when I clicked "performance" kicked the fans on to full notch even from a cold boot, so I guess that is how to get fans going. According to my phone, not over 50 db at any time. I'll run some tests on "thermal performance mode"

    edit: "thermal full speed" is well... full speed and A LOT louder. It isn't really necessary though. This laptop seems to hit its power limits if it doesn't hit its thermal limit. Requires some massive reduction of turbos, but leads to an overall stable system. I don't think anyone can claim it is a thermal disaster, but it isn't anything to necessarily brag about either.
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2019
  9. DaBears92

    DaBears92 Notebook Enthusiast

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    In case anyone is interested the Dell US website has the 51m with the RTX2060 starting at $1949.99.
     
  10. Cass-Olé

    Cass-Olé Notebook Evangelist

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    edit 6-21-19: RTX 2080 list cost to replace from Dell = $2,325
    [​IMG]
    below is my original post
    Below you will find GPU CPU Memory Estimated Costs
    [​IMG]
    Purpose: Cost estimate 2060 2070 2080 GRFX cards
    • 2060 = X | 2070 = $600 + X | 2080 = $1050 + X
    Personal Opinion: 2060 = ~$525 | 2070 ~$1125 | 2080 ~$1575

    Est. Cost vs Desktop GRFX MSRP:
    • 2070 add +600 = 1125 = $600~ over MSRP ($500)
    • 2080 add +1050 = 1575 = $850~ over MSRP ($700)
    • ... ... ...
    Desktop GRFX MSRP Multipliers:
    • 2060 $350 x 1.5 = 525
    • 2070 $500 x 2.25 = 1125 (double: 525 x 2.15 = 1125)
    • 2080 $700 x 2.25 = 1575 (triple: 525 x 3 = 1575)
    _________________
    Cost, SideVent Heatsink: disclaimer added a few days ago to sales page: Intel® Core™ i7-8700 with NVIDIA® GeForce RTX™ 2060 configuration does not have side-exhaust
    • an unknown cost is factored into total GPU cost for optional side vent heatsink that 2070 & 2080 come with, it's up to you to est. that cost, mine's $25
    • an unknown 2060 GPU cost is factored into base $1950 laptop which can not be known; it's 'hidden' inside of the base price & must be estimated relative to known 2070 & 2080 price differentials where a pattern may emerge
    • ~Pattern: 2060 = X, 2070 = 2X, 2080 = 3X (525 / 1125 / 1575)
    I'm glad the 2060 is here, we can now estimate how much 2070 & 2080 buyers paid for their DGFF GRFX cards (*Day 1 prices above may be subject to change later)

    The cost of 2060 is 'hidden', it is Included In Price & simply makes up some cost inside of the $1950 / US base price & must be estimated by the public; to upgrade to 2070 or 2080, the buyer must 1st pay the estimated cost of this base 2060 & add it into the cost of 2070 / 2080 where:
    • 2060 est. cost = X
    • 2070 est. cost = $600 + X
    • 2070 est. cost = $1050 + X
    Buyers paid at least $600 for 2070 & at least $1050 for 2080 - plus X - the cost of original 2060 they must 1st pay for & then opt out of ... we already knew the difference in cost between 2070 / 2080 is $450 & still is; we know that by adding a $600 2070 into the cart today reveals the original $2550 base price; when adding 2080 the original $3000 price appears (2550 + 450), so the prices today are legit

    Lo-Hi MSRP for desktop GRFX shown only for comparison:

    $350 FE | $500-$600 FE | $700-$800 FE

    *Note: Due to proprietary DGFF, desktop MSRPs are our sole point of reference

    Relative to desktop 2060 MSRP, the +$600 2070 is quite a stretch between their normal $150-$250 disparity; when moving from 2070 > 2080 > add $450 is another stretch between their normal $200 disparity

    For Mobile RTX, I'd like to see a ~$300 relative difference between (60>70) due to the $450 difference (70>80) but I don't think I can get there, in fact I know I can't since 70 80 incur a very steep premium as seen in this Table as we go looking for 2060 = X:

    Tables:
    350 | 950 | 1400
    400 | 1000 | 1450
    450 | 1050 | 1500
    500 | 1100 | 1550
    525 | 1125 | 1575
    550 | 1150 | 1600
    600 | 1200 | 1650

    Ex: if 2060 = 450 then 2070 = $1050 & 2080 = $1500
    *Note: Table loses symmetry & doesn't 'scale' due to 60 > 70 +600, 70 > 80 +450

    At 1st blush, when 2060 = 450, it's a reasonable estimate (slightly less than 25% of entire $1950 cost); however, the disparity is quite large, 450 > 1050 > 1500 & a 'pattern' develops: X 2X 3X; now's a good time for 2060's base MSRP:
    • 350 | 950 | 1400
    Here, even at $350, the 2080 grows to $1400 ($700 MSRP) or double the price of its desktop counterpart & w/ less TDP (180w-200w vs 215-225w) even as 2060 is at its MSRP

    $350 for 2060 is unrealistic in the face of 2080 costing double-MSRP*, where no correctly thinking person will assume the Aliens are giving 2060s away - clearly they're not - given the estimated but bloated 70 & 80 price points uncovered above

    Is 2060 $500? More? If so, why, &, wouldn't it make 70 80 cost more?

    Rather than just $350 - desktop MSRP - I find it more likely the 2060 represents ~$525 of the base price so that the Aliens can make big profit over MSRP* which they've plainly done & are doing with the 70 & 80 without even blushing; we can not however estimate the 2060 under its MSRP* either; the lower it goes the more out of whack the 70 80 prices are relative to it:
    • 300 | 900 | 1350 > X 3X 4.5X <
    If you as buyer must 'decrease' the cost of 2060 below $525 in order to 'correct for' high 70 & 80 prices (& make yourself feel better from sticker shock), you will - & must - do so in the face of exorbitant 70 & 80 which is to say it is far more likely that 2060 is itself well over MSRP* than it is likely for it to be near it ... so forget about at or under it

    This is brand new Mobile RTX upgradeable & inside 'the world's most powerful laptop' & all that bundled hype needs to be cashed in on ... is being, rather

    2060 as a hot new product must also fetch a big price like its bigger brothers are already doing; which is to say the 70 & 80 move so far past their MSRP* it is a given the 60 does too; with the 60 however, it isn't as drastic, so whether buyer has really payed $500 or $600, +/- $100 isn't the worst AlienTax I've encountered, hardly ...

    You'd be wrong to move too far under those 2060 estimates though, & you may be wrong to try to even budge from them: these proprietary GPUs are costly ...

    ... all three flavors are, that u can be sure of ...

    See spoiler at bottom of page which outlines my reasoning for why 2060 is ~$525, 70 is ~$1125, 80 is ~$1575
    • 2060 MSRP 350 x 1.5 = 525
    • 2070 MSRP 500 x 2.25 = 1125
    • 2080 MSRP 700 x 2.25 = 1575
    • see Tables from earlier or in spoiler
    Come Full Circle:
    • our $1100 2070 includes $25 for side vents
    • our $1550 2080 includes $25 for side vents
    • ... ... ...
    Cost Over Eqwivalent Desktop GRFX MSRP (500 & 700):
    • 2070 add +$600 = $600 over MSRP
    • 2080 add $1050 = $850 over MSRP
    • ... ... ...
    CPU Price Estimates: 8700 $360 | 9700k $460 | 9900k $810

    MSRP for base 8700 = $303 & represents ~that amount in the new $1950 base price (& in the prior $2550 base price when 2070 was base GPU):
    • add $100 9700k = ~$400 (Newegg $420)
    • add $450 9900k = ~$750 (Newegg $530)
    We already have a price issue at $303, since 9700k prices BELOW Newegg, this is a non-no; it is far more likely that 8700 represents $50/$75 more so that the Aliens can make profit off of new Gen9 & new GEN9 HYPE (you won't milk them: they will milk you); I'll estimate it as a $360 CPU then, so 9700k = $460 9900k = $810

    When 8700 = $360 & 2060 = $525, CPU GPU = $885 & therefore buyer pays $1085 for 'the rest of the laptop', a rationale estimate (as is a $600 2060 is rationale, while over $600 begins to encroach into territory I can't easily sponsor but could, given all the price bloat going around); however, if the above CPU/GPU prices are considered valid by you the reader then when the buyer:
    • adds $810 9900k & adds $1575 2080
    • $2385 invests into CPU GPU HS
    $2385 - $530 (Newegg 9900k) = ~$1850 into just GPU (+ Heatsink)

    Memory Price Estimates
    [​IMG]
    If you value 8Gb of included mem as $50 / $70, add 700 = $750 / $770 is your cost, then shop for equivalent 2666 kit online & that is the overcharge. I'll use 8Gb = $60 (avg)

    Ex: Kingston 2666 32Gb = $240 >< x2 Kits 64Gb = $480
    • 32Gb: 360 - 240 = 120 overcharge
    • 64Gb: 760 - 480 = 280
    DGFF GPU Price Rationale in spoiler for those wishing to analyze potential costs as I have
    Sales Menu 2060 > 2070 = +600
    Sales Menu 2070 > 2080 = +450
    MSRPs: 350 > 500 / 600 > 700 / 800
    • MSRP Disparities between SKUs: 250 & 200
    $250 is to $562 (250 x 2.25) as $200 is to $450 (200 x 2.25)
    • (250 x 2.4 = $600) | avg: 2.325 (e.g. 2.4 - 2.25)
    Multipliers of 2.25, 2.325, 2.4 are suspect as the result:
    • MSRP 2070 > 2080 = $200 Disparity (500/600 > 700/800)
    • 2070 > 2080 = add $450
    • $200 MSRP disparity x 2.25 = $450
    • MSRP 2060 > 2070 = $250 disparity (350 > 600)
    • 2060 > 2070 = add $600
    • $250 MSRP disparity x 2.25 = $562
    • (note: 250 x 2.4 = $600 | avg = 2.325)
    Relative Tables: 2060 2070 2080

    500 | 1100 | 1550

    525 | 1125 | 1575

    550 | 1150 | 1600
    • 2080 $700 MSRP x 2.25 = 1575
    • When 2080 = 1575 | 2070 = 1125 | 2060 = 525
    • 525 x 2.15 = 1128 (note: x 2.25 = 1180 - 1128 = $53)
    • 2.15 for 2070 is less than 2.25 for 2080
    • 2070 is 'worth $50 less' than 2080 as a GRFX Card, which is to say 2080 is worth $50 more (higher multiplier: 2.25 vs 2.15) since it is the top GRFX Card
    • 2060 is also 'worth less' than 70 & 80 as a GRFX Card
    Notes: Since 2060s are new, they've already been out-sold by 70 & 80; moving forward they may, may incur less sales volume; they're also 'worth less' as a product-for-profit (& so priced less)

    2060 MSRP vs est. Price: 350 vs 525 > 350 x 1.5 = 525

    2070 MSRP vs est. Price: 500 vs 1125 > 500 x 2.25 = 1125

    2080 MSRP vs est. Price: 700 vs 1575 > 700 x 2.25 = 1575

    2.25 as a multiplier for 70 & 80 ... ... ...

    (*Note: 2.25 will not work for 2060: 350 x 2.25 = 787 > (2070 then = 1387 > 2080 then = 1837), only because I find it difficult to price the 2060 so high; however, $600 2070 MSRP x 2.25 = 1350 | $800 MSRP 2080 x 2.25 = 1800 ... so the math jives nicely)

    However, 2060s may be worth more to Dellware in the long run: DGFF upgradeable GRFX like 2070 2080 should fetch a pretty penny when bought direct from DellSales; there's profit in the sales menu starter 2060 (1.5x), then later when customer upgrades to 70 80 (2.25x); I suspect that when customer buys direct DGFF card they will pay more than they would've at checkout, estimate might be $1200 2070 & $1700 2080 for example; when DGFF cards go live in the SparePartsDirectory, we can check, will check

    It is possible they're going low (1.5x) on 2060 at checkout, based on projected future 70 & 80 Sales later as the over-priced discrete upgrade parts (2.25x +) that they are

    Feel free to comment
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2019
    SlickDragon, raz8020, c69k and 2 others like this.
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