*OFFICIAL* Alienware Area-51M Owner's Lounge

Discussion in '2015+ Alienware 13 / 15 / 17' started by ssj92, Jan 8, 2019.

  1. iunlock

    iunlock 7980XE @ 5.4GHz

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    The numbers on the 150W vbios is impressive indeed. This again proves the point that great numbers are achievable even without a high vbios limit, which also again silences a lot of the nay sayers that talked up a storm on trashing the Area 51M for having such limits. - Again, I don't agree with the release of limited hardware, but the point that I'm making is very specific to what I've specified above. ie.. shutting the haters down and you've showed an example of that with the link you've provided above.

    As for determination, absolutely. I can go 10-12 hours straight benching and working on maximizing the chipset...Trust me, I'm well aware of the dedication that it takes for this sport. I'm on vc with my contacts overseas at night (their day) while benching chatting it up while they are benching too... - My focus on benching is mainly on how far I can push a system in its practical form as a desktop or laptop and not in Frankenstein form, along with focusing on stability. Sometimes while I'm at it I'll bench it for benching sake, but you know how that goes... it can get addicting lol.

    Silicon Lottery is a very real thing so I can't say that I agree with you on that one. It's not about using the limits of a given silicon as an excuse. I want to make that very clear. Whether you ever make mention of the limitations of a chip has nothing to do with the reality. A hard physical limit is a hard physical limit and there is nothing you can do about it.

    The Area 51M doesn't have to beat the clevo for it earn its respect as a system. Clevo is only mentioned and compared to because it is the only other system that exists in this class of laptops. It also happens to be the one that the Area 51M is being compared to so that is what makes it relevant.

    Brand wise amen to that. I too am not brand specific by any means lol and I think that's very clear from the systems that I own. I like AW for it's build quality etc... and despite its obvious short comings, there are many factors that make it on the short list for me for when it comes to laptops... remember it's not all about bench numbers, rather it's about practicality and what people actually use it for. When that is taken into account, there are a ton of laptops that are a good candidate for an average user.

    I'm not sure if you saw my post in the desktop overclocking threads, but I'll post some highlights here from it to bring some clarity to this topic:

    "Thanks brother. It's always fun to reach goals and even more so when they are exceeded beyond expectation.

    One thing about me is that I stay in my lane and just do what I do when it comes to how I go about testing / benching.

    I put a lot of respect in honoring the different classes / categories in the benching realm, because like my car analogy at the quarter mile track, a stripped down (different form) drag car with no door panels, dash and only one bucket seat is not the same as a fully non modded regular car both running respectable times.

    ie... it's more respectable when you see that fully clothed car running 11 seconds down the strip with a Slurpee in the cup holder, because it has one haha...

    Therefore, when I see fellow benchers post up something I first honor the class and am just as excited about it as if it was a kingpin card, because in reality it has to be viewed that way since that is the reality.

    Benching is awesome and I love the sport a lot. I've made several mentions throughout the years how benching is no different than regular gaming, but IMO much more rewarding and comprehensive than gaming. Amen @Mr. Fox ? :)

    Uploading a bunch of stuff for points on hwbot isn't everything, rather I focus on being within the top 10% within the respected category/class. That's good enough for me, but sometimes it's nice to see my projects top its class, which is pretty cool, but I make sure to stay humble about it and just stay in my lane.

    When it comes to my builds I focus first on practicality, because at the end of the day it's for gaming and work tasks. At the same time it's fun to maximize its potential in its current form and if there's a strong performer, it's even more fun to pull that card/cpu out and to throw it on the test bench.

    Even when I bin my chips for myself and others, one of the things that I do is to bin them inside of a closed case (also) to mimic a real life scenario with ambient temps. To me this is very important, due to how picky chips can be at certain overclocked speeds, especially at common ambient temps...

    All in all I'm grateful to share the experience with other fellow enthusiasts and to help others get on their feet to enter this awesome realm of benching..."
     
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2019
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  2. iunlock

    iunlock 7980XE @ 5.4GHz

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    There will always be people who believe anything and marketing hype is done by every company in one form or another..

    Whether people believe such a thing is irrelevant to what's at hand. I just don't understand why you had to throw that into the picture, when it has nothing to do with what was being discussed.

    Yes, it would be great if you wouldn't do that, for the sake of everyone in this forum who want's to talk Area 51M and not have to be distracted by irrelevant stuff.
     
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  3. Johnksss

    Johnksss .

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    @iunlock
    I'm only going to grab a few things out of that wonderful post.

    Silicon lottery is cool and all, but not a guaranteed winner. That's why i made the comment about it. Example, you have a SL 9900K that is not beating an off the shelf 9900K in a laptop (Lets be fair - Only talking about firestrike - This laptop might win at a test or two, but let's be real. That's about it. :D). :D J/K And I haven't even tried it on a desktop board. But!, yes I totally get what you are saying which should hold true 100 percent of the time, but it doesn't. I'm also glad to see people are able to bin the lower cost chips, but back when we binned, it was 1100.00 and up per chip. Which also puts a cap on most people binning the high end stuff. - This pertains to those trying to reach the top. It is never cheap.

    I have also long mentioned that there were different classes and people should not get them mixed up. Back when all the arguing was going on.
    Gaming
    Stock out of box and stock optimized gaming
    Overclocked gaming
    Maxed overclocked gaming
    Benching
    Stock out of box and stock optimized benching
    Overclocked benching
    Maxed overclocked benching
    Stress testing
    Stock out of box and stock optimized stress testing
    Overclocked stress testing
    Maxed overclocked stress testing

    They all have their place. But one thing has always held true. To be on top, you need to be the best at more than just one. That has never changed. So if you win at gaming and lose at everything else. Sure, you look good doing it but you still lost. So you can not claim best in the world. And this breaking of parts in separate categories is fine and all, but it's still the machine that scores the best test run or benchmark or gaming benchmark average frames and so on that is the winner. not the guy saying I revved my engine to 12K rpm. Well guess what, no one is going to remember that, only the part where you came in last.

    This round the manufacturer that broke the Nvidia line was Asus. They have been running a 200W vbios for some time now. AW broke the line with the 180W, then 190W and now 200W, while everyone else is sitting at 150W Nvidia mandatory maximum. Hopefully this will help get others to do the same. Although this mosfet issue with the 2080 AW gpu is starting to become a trend. One that needs to be addressed and hopefully that is what is going on now with the delay of the next batch of laptops. Speculations of course.

    So that is definitely saying something! And also the Clear winner when going up against the Clevo. Factory Vbios vs Factory Vbios. There was no disputing this. I also made this known quite a few pages back. Clevo flat out lost! But as to the CPU, that is another story. In the beauty contest the A51M wins hands down. In the cooling depart, it loses sort of...meaning that if the cpu were allowed to run by itself, utilizing the whole heatsink (cpu-gpu side), then it would have the advantage over the Clevo cpu heat sink. As it is still connected in places to the gpu side while also using the fan shroud as part of it's heat sink. it's a clear loss when going up against the VC of the Clevo. Even with both having comparable temps at times.

    As to the benching, that's why the benching threads are created. so that we can go in there and be ourselves and love the hobby and sport of benching. And it erks me when gamers come in pusing can you do that while gaming. WTH! or Stress testers saying you can"t run Prime95/Furmark/aida64 stress test for 250 hours while sitting on the carpet with fans set to auto at 5.2 Ghz. WTH! :D SMH!

    Sort of exaggerated example, but not by much:
    I also do understand your analogies with the fully dressed car, but you also must understand mine....My fully dressed car is running nitro, twin turbos and pushing 900HP. While rolling with 4 people in the car listening to the radio and watching tv pulling 10's. No one said you have to sacrifice anything, but it is all in what you put into it that makes the most difference..... :) So LM/AC/Delidded/Lowered room temps would be the equivalent to that. And that starts at the casual to the extreme. All in what that particular person wants to invest in their personal happiness. Lets face it, the shell already looks nice.
     
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  4. iunlock

    iunlock 7980XE @ 5.4GHz

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    Well said. I'm a bit confused about the 9900K in the first paragraph, but my main 9900K exceeds that of an off the shelf 9900K. SL themselves list 9900K's tested that can hit or exceed 51x or greater is just 8%. The figures for those that can reach 54x I'm sure is far smaller in its percentages. If I misunderstood then forgive me .. it has been an early day and now going into a long night. :)

    Different classes.. yes yes yes... very very important and I'm glad you're emphasizing that. Recognizing and respecting different classes and categories matters very much so.

    As for being on top, not everyone want's or needs to be on top. The angle of approach may be similar for the majority of pure benchers, but I guess I'm the minority when it comes to the intent and purpose? - When I bench systems the primary focus most of the time is to maximize the potential to find its highest stable point, because that's ultimately what matters for those who will be using it for regular computing tasks or gaming.

    I do also enjoy actual pure benching as well, however, I treat that as its own session and with the pure focus of going all out with making the best with what I have.

    When it comes to pure benching, absolutely that's where it all changes so I totally get that. However, as we both agree everything has to be looked at in respect to its class / category.

    It's very clear who are pure gamers that make those kind of remarks lol... The benching world is way above their pay grade and I say that humbly as a statement of fact.

    Funny story, so a few weeks ago I was playing a game while tuning a system and as expected it would disconnect at times due to instability. A random player commented "why waste your time doing that?" so I had replied "well for one to get my monies worth and to know that it's running efficiently." - He was saying how he had a 2080Ti this and that so I simply asked him "so what's your core clocks?" and he said that he's boosting ~1700MHz or so... Then I said "oh neat, well if you're interested I'm streaming right now so you can check out how the game is running on my end with the same card." He saw the core clocks on my stream (2160MHz) and asked if that was my CPU. *face palm* ... --- So the moral of the story is, most of gamers don't have a clue about the benching realm and that's okay... if they want to learn there a lot of people who would be glad to help them.

    I also miss the whole drag race scene..good ol' days eh? Brings back memories...

    How about a modded vc heat sink for the Area 51M? :p Now that would be awesome.
     
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  5. ssj92

    ssj92 Neutron Star

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    To be fair, my OEM 9900K can hit 5.3Ghz, I am 99% sure if I had it in a desktop I can go higher. The Area-51m is limiting it going higher. I only got it up to 5.2Ghz in the Area-51m and did a 5.3Ghz CPU-Z validation.

    Idk, even my OEM 7700K in my Clevo could do 5Ghz without any additional voltage other than stock clevo voltage. Maybe I got lucky in the CPU department.

    GPU is another story. Mine doesn't seem to want to break past 28k.
     
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  6. Johnksss

    Johnksss .

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    @iunlock This is the second chip in here and it hits 5.2 ghz. Off the shelf. As for other 9900K's they pretty much all have done 5.1, but keeping some of them cool is another matter. (Laptops) They pretty much should all do 5.0 all cores. Some will do this with better voltage of curse, while others take more. This is what we need to understand in the A51M. When you get a chance. Set you voltage to as low as it will go (maybe 1.1 or something like that using custom) and set the offset to -100 and all cores to 4.9 with fans on Performance and start testing. See how high you can go for stability, before having to raise the voltage or offset. I think it will run 5.0 like this. I didn't have enough time to get it all sorted out, but i did find that the voltage itself is too high.

    That "on top" comment is not meant for everyone. It is meant for those who are striving to be on top. Look at young @Rocktaze. he was striving to be on top for gpu clocks. And he actually was, but the first person to actually make everyone see the light was @thattechgirl_viv. And she did it sitting on a table with nothing but how the system came. So stock and optimized then overclocked to kick off the 29K gpu scores for the A51M. She basically beat everyone with a 2080 Asus/MSI/Clevo/AW/Aorus/Tongfang. :D I thought that was pretty hilarious to say the least. This was when everyone seemed to think the A51M's max clocks was +125/+200 or so. Which wasn't even close to max @HaloGod2012 showed this on more than 1 occasion(about +150 to +175/+1000-+1500 is max). Once that cat was out of the bag the scores started to climb.

    And I pretty much have to agree with everything else.

    That is a funny story though, but an even funnier one is when they start clowning and saying stuff like....You spent 6k on a desktop and your KD is -034. You should have spent 40 dollars on gaming lessons. Yeah, i'm not in a lot of games where people are talking about how many fps you're getting or what you running in terms of hardware. And if my KD is that bad, I sure as heck am not going to be telling them either! Find out you got smacked down by a chromebook would be....well...just embarrassing. Even though you look pretty damn nice taking a beating. :D
     
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  7. DannyB513

    DannyB513 Notebook Evangelist

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    I have hit the limits of what my 9700K can do in XTU.

    I can run 5.1 all core at -70mv. Any uv above that causes artifacting in FS and other benchmarks.
    I can run 5.2, all core at -20mv. Anything uv above that causes BSOD's.
    If I try 5.3, get insta BSOD when I hit apply

    Would prefer to use TS, but if I set my multiplier to anything higher than 4.9 in TS it will not run any higher than 4.9 and 4.9 is as high as it will show in Riva Tuner OSD and HWInfo.
     
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  8. iunlock

    iunlock 7980XE @ 5.4GHz

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    I think a lot of 9900K's can hit 53x just fine with either the luck of the draw or cooling. What I consider rare is it being able to hold and sustain 54x.

    The testing and measures SL uses I don't quite agree with myself, but that's just me. I'm fully aware of their testing perimeters, take for example what they list a 9900K @ 5.0GHz at 1.3v with AVX at 2. That's not a silicon lottery lol... what's worse is what they have listed for an 8086K (which I have as well) listed as an SL at 4.8GHz @ 1.40v?! That's ridiculous.

    It sounds like you've lucked out my friend. :) That's really awesome.

    As I've mentioned above, 53x is pretty obtainable especially with good cooling. Where I start to consider it a SL is from 54x. Perhaps some of these 53x chips can do 54x with cooling and I have no doubts. I have over 10x 9900K's that I've binned myself and they were all able to hit 53x just fine with cooling, however, only 20% of them could hit 54x with the same cooling on 53x.

    I'll test what you've suggested with the A51M. :)

    As for the GPU score on the A51M, right out of the box without even being aware of any prior benchers that you've mentioned, I was hitting well over 29K on graphics, which I didn't even think twice as being something spectacular since I was actually after 30K from the get go... This system sitting on the table hits 29K consistently with back to back to back runs. As for the max clocks, I've never taken that into consideration for it to have any affect on my expectations. When I first dive into a system, I follow my usual protocol to a T on starting from scratch due to me treating every silicon like a clean plate since they're not all created equal.

    As for gaming yea it's very toxic haha... there is truth to the hardware not really mattering at all, because I've always used this example...

    Give a pro gramer crappy hardware and a very good gamer the best hardware, and the pro would still win 100%.

    Try only having either just TS or just XTU installed. Personally I don't use XTU anymore and only TS... those two don't like living together so try using something like Revo to clean uninstall XTU then try again... hope that helps. :)
     
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  9. Vasudev

    Vasudev Notebook Nobel Laureate

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    You got a golden chip. Nice temps. Is HWINFO accurate on reporting AC adapter rating of 510W for minimum and maximum?
     
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  10. Johnksss

    Johnksss .

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    29.3K is still quite a stretch from 30K with using a 200W Vbios. I eagerly await your crossing into the 30K range soon.

    And as to scores, just ask @Mr. Fox and what I have to say about saving potential record breaking scores. Or the lack there of saving them to begin with. haha My favorite 4 to 6 words.

    And @thattechgirl_viv was doing that with a 190W machine and first gen bios. So I already knew about getting 29k low to mid scores. And at that time no one was trying for 30K. That only became evident after it was shown to be possible. Most people were still trying to get 28K.

    Now that the gpu seems established what is needed to know now is where the cpu will sit....
     
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