*OFFICIAL* Alienware Area-51M Owner's Lounge

Discussion in '2015+ Alienware 13 / 15 / 17' started by ssj92, Jan 8, 2019.

  1. Mr. Fox

    Mr. Fox BGA Filth-Hating Elitist

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    Yes, it should be fine.
     
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  2. raz8020

    raz8020 Notebook Consultant

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    The chip's TDP has no relevance to the user (unless you design cooling solutions for that SKU) , except to know what's the most powerful CPU that fits in that model.

    The TDP of the chip is already calculated and tested and it is available along with the guidelines for designing the cooling system.

    It is up to the OEMs to design a proper HS with the provided guidelines from both the CPU and GPU manufacturers (since you mentioned the combined loads, which is not Intel's job to calculate).

    Page 87 from 8th-gen-core-family-datasheet-vol-1.pdf:

    [​IMG]

    There's no "catch", believe that it is clear enough:

    If for ex. the CPU overheats or throttles below base, then it is the OEM's fault, because it has all the data to design a proper cooling solution.

    Since the PL1 value usually coincides with the TDP (of the cooling solution), then the TDP rating of the CPU part of the HS in A51M, should be ~ 130w (I don't remember what's the power limit when stressing just the CPU) or 119w for the CPU in combined loads and a total of 299w (119w CPU + 180w GPU).
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2019
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  3. user54321

    user54321 Notebook Geek

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    I live in USA and ordered here.
     
  4. user54321

    user54321 Notebook Geek

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    So today I got email from Dell and here is what they wrote:

    "I am sorry for the inconvenience caused to you due to this order delay. Due to an issue with one of the parts on this order many orders have been impacted and we are trying to get this sorted out. I will keep you updated at the earliest as I am awaiting response from the sales and order management team."

    So looks like my order on hold and they going to cancel and replace it later whatsoever, so how much to wait - no clue. I really don't want to build desktop, for two reasons:
    a) not willing to spend 10k, cause I could buy Threadripper, 2080 Ti, etc., there are no limits like the laptop's hardware has;
    b) desktop weights too much and takes a lot of space, I don't know how to travel with it when I need to move somewhere, even if I move not so often.

    Also, I've checked HIDevolution - their price even expensiver for already overpriced laptop. I hope everything will be fine and they gonna send my laptop as soon as possible.
     
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  5. Woodking

    Woodking Notebook Evangelist

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    I'm not sure that is correct, and no offence intended of course :) and I don't understand, nor agree where you claim "They will probably be pretty close in heat production". Happy to be proven wrong and I may learn something new, so its all good either way!

    65W vs 95W is a roughly 30% difference especially in a laptop however good the cooling, and must produce more heat to dissipate (from my dodgy maths skills). More watts = more power consumption and more heat produced operating at base frequency, from my understanding of Intels explanation -

    "Thermal Design Power (TDP) represents the average power, in watts, the processor dissipates when operating at Base Frequency with all cores active under an Intel-defined, high-complexity workload."

    From my understanding the 8700 isn't stuck to any frequency, it ramps up to its set maximum when workload requires it to do so then drops back down to idle just like any other CPU, when no load is present. The main difference with the K models is that they are able to run at a higher frequency as they are designed to be able to do so and their thermal design is increased as they will consume and produce a lot more heat doing so. Why would I need to down clock a more powerful processor to stay cool - if they are both pretty close in heat production as you claim?

    The 8700 has HyperThreading where as the 9700K does not, so its 6 cores 12 threads vs 8 cores 8 threads, noted that threads/cores do not make much difference to gaming as presently most games only engage 4 cores. The 8700 also runs unusually high clocks for a non-K chip and not much difference to the 8700K version if you compare the 2.

    Last point I'd like to make is that Intel Thermal Solution Specification for the 9700K processor - Intel Reference Heat Sink specification for proper operation of this SKU is classed as PCG 2015D (130W) whereas the 8700 is PCG 2015C (65W) - this tells me the 9700K is going to run a lot hotter at (its higher) Base Frequency and use more power doing so (hence the larger power supplies), and even more so if you do overclock it (hence the extra cooling pipes). It has twice the amount of watts heat to dissipate. Just imagine swapping out an old incandescant light bulb, the lower the wattage the cooler the lamp :cool:
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2019
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  6. ThatOldGuy

    ThatOldGuy Notebook Virtuoso

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    This isn't the exact quote I was looking for (pasted below), but I'm on my phone so it will do.

    Essentially the i7-8700 peaks at 126Watt. Ironically this system is limited to 119Watt (or 129Watt when GPU is not loaded).

    Unfortunately Intels 65 vs 95w spec is useless to us the end users. Unless you want to disable turbo boost.

    So, overall. At stock the i7-9700k and i7-8700 will peak just around the same 119-129W peak.

    With the K CPU however, you can change stock power settings (other than just undervolting). You can only undervolt a non K CPU and hope for the best

    I hope this makes sense

    "... Its chips actually exceed the TDP when they dynamically increase voltage and frequency through their Turbo Boost algorithms. As noted on Intel's Turbo Boost 2.0informational page:

    Note: Intel Turbo Boost Technology 2.0 allows the processor to operate at a power level that is higher than its TDP configuration and data sheet specified power for short durations to maximize performance.

    According to our measurements, Core i7-8700 peaks at up to 126W during taxing all-core workloads. With that data in-hand, the stock cooler does appear insufficient. :

    https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/intel-core-i7-8700-cpu-review,5638-2.html
     
  7. Papusan

    Papusan JOKEBOOKs Sucks! Dont waste your $$$ on FILTHY

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  8. raz8020

    raz8020 Notebook Consultant

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    https://en.wikichip.org/wiki/intel/core_i7/i7-8700

    https://en.wikichip.org/wiki/intel/core_i7/i7-8700k


    The chips are the same, it is just that one is allowed to go higher in power draw if it needs to.

    The 8700K can draw the same amount of power as 8700 at 3.2Ghz, but it can draw as much as 95w at 3.7 Ghz, while the 8700 isn't allowed to pass 65w.
    It (the power draw) mainly depends on the silicon and default voltage, if the load is the same.
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2019
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  9. jorotaruGuy

    jorotaruGuy Notebook Enthusiast

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    I had the same thought process too when deciding on this laptop (not so much about the point of unlimited spending, but on the travel).

    I watched a video about the Corsair One a while back and kinda just, "cool but not for me" but now that I'm thinking about it, it's a pretty nice machine, but it also fits your points pretty well. As far as desktops go, it pretty small and fairly portable; it's not laptop level portability, but I could see myself lugging pretty easily if I need to relocate. You'd still need a display though. And because of it's unique size, you don't have many options for upgrade either; a con for most people, but I guess a pro for you.

    It's priced pretty similarly with the Alienware, which is to say, pretty damn expensive for a desktop. But it'll run cooler and be more powerful. I actually considered it... For a brief moment. But ultimately having everything in an all in one package for travel was more important for me . Relocating every couple months with a monitor and petite desktop isn't too cumbersome, but a beefy laptop is probably better
     
  10. ThatOldGuy

    ThatOldGuy Notebook Virtuoso

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    It can draw much more than 65w. Read my response above. Intel's stated TDP does not reflect any turbo boost
     
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