*OFFICIAL* Alienware 15 R3 Owner's Lounge

Discussion in '2015+ Alienware 13 / 15 / 17' started by katalin_2003, Oct 24, 2016.

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  1. smugpanda

    smugpanda Notebook Evangelist

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    Sure looks like a good deal for what you get there. I would go for it. The 1399 starting price on AW's website for the 1060 isn't nearly as good considering for a minor bump in price you can get a 1070 equipped version. Costco's 2 year warranty a big plus.
     
  2. smugpanda

    smugpanda Notebook Evangelist

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    Sounds like Puget System's agrees with me on a brief read of a few articles:

    For one:
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    The results of our testing can pretty much be summarized with the following three points:

    1. Modern Intel CPUs run at full speed (including the full Turbo Boost allowed based on the number of cores and workload) all the way up to 100 °C
    2. Even after the CPU hits 100 °C, the performance is not greatly affected until the CPU spends about 20% of the time > 99 °C
    3. While stock cooling only causes around a 2.5% drop in performance, even a budget after market cooler will dramatically improve CPU temperatures
    Frankly, we were a bit surprised at how well modern Intel CPUs dealt with really high temperatures. They manage to run at full speed all the way up to 100 °C, and even then the performance is not greatly affected unless they spend a significant amount of time at that temperature. We certainly don't advocate letting your CPU run at those kinds of temperatures, however. While this article is about performance there are plenty of non-performance based reasond to keep your CPU temperature at a more reasonable level.

    Sensitive electronics like CPUs have a finite lifespan and running them at higher temperatures shortens it. So unless you want to have an excuse to upgrade your system often, higher temperatures are counter-productive.


    ----------------------------------
    I left that last comment in so as not to be accused of cherry picking...further, in their Comments section:
    ----------------------------------

    I think your CPUs will be completely fine. 80-85C sounds really hot, but remember that these CPUs are designed to run full speed until they hit 100C, so Intel sure seems to think that 80-85C is well within tolerance. I also looked up our failure rates for Xeon CPUs over the last four years and it is currently sitting right at .3% out of >2000 processors. That's really low and the latest generation of CPUs are even better than the old ones. In fact, in the last year we've only had a single Xeon CPU fail (for a .12% failure rate).

    Honestly, I think you are more likely to run into motherboard problems long before you run into CPU problems. Supplying that much voltage constantly can be hard on the motherboard voltage regulators. Cooling the CPUs further will help a bit (as will making sure the VRMs on your motherboard are adequately cooled) but I think the motherboard is definitely going to be your point of most likely failure.

    -----------------------------------

    The key here is "duty cycle" - most home machines, to include gaming machines, are a very different beasts than the types it looks like Puget System's makes (professional, high duty cycle systems). And even with their systems, the CPU failure rates are extremely low. In my own experience, it is the motherboard or power supply that fails before CPUs and GPUs by a country mile. I've never had a CPU or GPU fail on machines I've owned 5 years, but I have replaced motherboards. So the fretting about CPU temps are largely overblown.

    I know what you are going to say next - it's that "heat build up" in the chassis will result in MOBO failures and because these are soldered designs - you can't pluck the CPU/GPU chip off and put in a relatively cheap motherboard. I get that lament, but it is what it is. This is how laptops are built now - and Desktops still afford far greater repairability. As far as "heat build up" - I'd love to see if a 75C average CPU load really is much different from a 95C CPU as far as overall "heat build up" and it's impacts on the lifespan of the more sensitive VRMs, caps, and power supplies. I would venture that NO, it is not a big deal in the overall assessment of how long a given system will last.

    So if you are a gamer who spends 3 hours a night playing high end games, and then the rest of the day mining - I'd recommend buying a desktop. Your duty cycle is not the best use case for a laptop. If you expect your laptop to last 5 years with this type of use - then that's an unreal expectation.
     
  3. smugpanda

    smugpanda Notebook Evangelist

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    Another good data point from Puget:

    That is a very tough question to answer. You could get two CPUs and simply run one at 50C and the other at 100C for years to see when they fail - but that would be a sample size of one which is not very accurate (you might have a weak CPU or something like that). You would need to have at least 10 of each before you could be relatively confident in the results (so 20 total). And by the time they start failing, they will probably be really outdated and use an old manufacturing technique so the data would no longer be relevant.

    One thing I can tell you is that we configure our machines so that they don't go above ~80C when under a heavy load. Most of our customers don't put as heavy of a load on their systems as what we use to test, but over the last two years it looks like our Intel CPU failure rates in the field are about .15%. That is an insanely low failure rate - especially since we prioritize quiet operation which often results in slightly higher CPU temperatures.

    Really, I would say don't worry about it unless you are overclocking. In that case, cooler temperatures probably will make a bigger difference on the longevity of the CPU. For normal operation, however, I think that you are likely to want to upgrade your system long before the CPU will likely fail even if you do let it run over 50C.
     
  4. rinneh

    rinneh Notebook Prophet

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    They use the same as the rest in the industry, there is quite a shortage on panels for 1080P 15inch laptops.
     
  5. Papusan

    Papusan JOKEBOOKS = That sucks! Dont wast your $ on FILTHY

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    Puget have many decent articles.

    See from your post ... As they say 99C doesn’t affect processors performance... We talk about desktop here. Can’t compare with notebooks ****y throttling and all sorts op throttle algorithms once passing 85-93C. None of today’s notebook BGA processors work properly with this types temps. Most works bad.

    Most say 85C. And if you put up an decent higher overclock you will risk instability above or around 85C.

    How they put up systems... “One thing I can tell you is that we configure our machines so that they don't go above ~80C when under a heavy load.”
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2018
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  6. smugpanda

    smugpanda Notebook Evangelist

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    Links?

    I can't tell your schtick - do you hate notebooks in general? Which ones are doing thermal systems right?

    I owned an Alienware 13r3 (second time I bought it), and it ran in the low 90s under load. Everything in games ran perfectly smooth - no frequent stuttering or issues with low 1% frames being dominant in my experience. I really loved the little booger, but ultimately went on to play around with eGPUs for a while. Now I'm going to try the 15 as I want a bigger screen this time around.

    I agree that notebooks use more "tricks" to keep thermals in check than desktops - but throwing around swear words regarding what they do - I guess I don't know what your alternative is? Is it LM and multi-hour heatsink "balancing" and thermal pad optimization on a per unit basis? What would manufacturing costs be if each unit was hand crafted like that?

    No, what we have is a thermal pad/adhesive that can be applied at a rate of XX per hour allowing an individual chinese worker to quickly screw on the heatsink and move on to the next unit. This likely results in a design that has less than 5% failure and return rate for Aliewnare (and every other manufacturer).
     
  7. Papusan

    Papusan JOKEBOOKS = That sucks! Dont wast your $ on FILTHY

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    Re-read link in my post #4104
    http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...3-owners-lounge.797458/page-411#post-10759655

    Most notebooks run similar (with high temp). You find a lot post/threads about it. See also Notebokcheck.net’s reviews of today’s Skylake/Kaby Lake/ Coffee lake laptops. None work proper with high temp. All throttle. I’m on a small phone with bad internet and it’s difficult to post links. If you think notebooks run equal as desktop, Oh’well
    FYI. My LGA laptop (modded with 8700K) mod firmware work as a desktop. The model and specks in my sig. The picture shows wrong Cpu. It’s a oc’d i7-8700K.

    Edit. See also http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...cussions-lounge.806253/page-164#post-10759977

    + posts below.
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2018
  8. cookinwitdiesel

    cookinwitdiesel Retired Bencher

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    @Papusan, I understand that you don't agree with throttling on a philosophical level but you seem to really enjoy comparing your 1.8" thick 11 lb notebook to something that is literally half of that. What are you aiming for here? We get it, you do not like BGA designed laptops, and? You have voted with your wallet and bought an LGA based laptop, you sure showed the OEMs who is boss! Why are you still venting in threads for laptops you don't own? Is it your mission to drive people away from buying these laptops? Who set you on this mission? I and many others have been happy with it. We have different requirements than you do and different definitions of a laptop successfully meeting our requirements. Sure it isn't perfect, when you find the perfect laptop please let me know!

    You are howling at the moon because clearly Intel and the rest of the laptop manufacturing world has embraced and moved to BGA based laptops - the rare exception will be specialty designed laptops such as the Clevos that run a desktop CPU in them. If that best meets your needs, GREAT! Buy it (like you did). But you are NEVER going to be able to change the tide in the notebook market that has been BGA designed laptops. So rather than crying over, and over, and over, and over, and over in every thread that is about a laptop with a BGA CPU, become part of the solution. People come here for advice and help. If they are asking about thermals on a laptop they just bought or are thinking about buying, the answer is not to crap all over them and tell them they are wrong or dumb for wanting that laptop. Help them understand how the laptop will behave and perform, help them understand what options they have to improve the cooling performance or tune their laptop to operate with their desired workload in their desired acoustic range, help them understand the compromises that go into designing a laptop that has X internals and Y form factor and how that could impact their usage.

    You have 18k posts and have clearly been very active on the forums - I cannot speak to the quality of the posts or the discussions, I have been away for several years - but to many users that gives you some assumed credibility. Use that credibility and influence in a positive way instead of screaming about throttling and using childish spelling to get around filters for cuss words. Act like an adult please.

    Thanks!
     
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  9. cn555ic

    cn555ic Notebook Evangelist

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    Well said.
     
  10. smugpanda

    smugpanda Notebook Evangelist

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    I'm pretty sure I clearly said I don't think Notebooks run equal to desktops - it's clear that for many who demand, as you stay, an ability to hold max CPU boost frequency 24/7 - they need desktops. Most gamers don't need to do this....I'm pretty sure that as long as the GPU runs at max freq, and CPU oscillates in the mid 3Ghz range, it will be just fine. I'm guessing your theorize that Intel SpeedStep causes microstuttering in games because of this freq oscillation? If so, and this is a real issue for me, I'll disable turboboost altogether, or adjust the multiplier to 36X or something. Whatever freq it can hold. These are tips I'd love to hear from you if you have them.

    Anyways - I agree with most others - nobody wants a giant 2" thick laptop anymore. We are ok with the "tricks" in the bag to keep thermals in check. I believe the AW design largely stays within single digit percentage points of available spec performance. I haven't seen many pro reviews really hammer it for it's inability to play games with ease (esp with 1070/1080 models).

    I'm gonna talk it up, and then get a total turd in the mail. LOL

    Come on delivery!
     
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