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NOW AVAILABLE - Updated ENVY 15, ENVY 17 / ENVY 17 3D

Discussion in 'HP Envy & HDX' started by eafd, Nov 16, 2011.

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Did you purchase a shiny new ENVY 15 and/or ENVY 17?

  1. Yes, purchased the ENVY 15!

    62.1%
  2. Yes, purchased the ENVY 17 / ENVY 17 3D!

    39.3%
  1. wetwillycf

    wetwillycf Notebook Consultant

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    Maybe it was some sort of space or power concern then.
     
  2. Netherwind

    Netherwind Notebook Evangelist

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    Why spend $500+ on a laptop just to 'hold you over' till the laptop you really want comes out? that seems like a massive waste of money and you'll end up spending double what you wanted to spend to begin with.

    That's the point though, it's not 'underpowered' components so much as over-cooled components, you want your laptop to stay cool under heavy heat, I've heard complaints about the Envy 14 getting hot with the quad core in it, I don't know if those were resolved but there were definitely some heat issues going on with the quad. If it can handle the 6630 very well then why are you complaining? You know what's coming in it to begin with and if it can cool properly then that's all you can ask for. I'd be ecstatic if my laptop never got warm no matter where I put it.

    Or they just wanted to keep the laptop cool period, plus it probably would have forced them to have a larger power brick.
     
  3. Fat Dragon

    Fat Dragon Just this guy, you know?

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    I don't know about the quad core issue you're talking about, so I can't comment on that. My issue is that an Envy 14 with a good screen and an upper-mid-range GPU like the 6770m, which I believe it could support just fine, would be exactly what I want in a laptop, whereas the old generation had a gimped mid-range card and the current generation has a lower-mid-range card and a rubbish screen. I'm complaining because HP could create essentially the perfect laptop for someone who wants a mobile laptop with a good screen, good build quality, good battery life, and good gaming power, but instead they chose to fall short on one or more of those expectations. If they reduced the bezel size so the notebook was closer in size to a typical 14" instead of being notably larger in the horizontal dimensions then the weaker GPUs would be justified, but considering that the 14's almost as big as some 15.6" laptops, they should have at least offered a better GPU as an upgrade, if not standard.
     
  4. Netherwind

    Netherwind Notebook Evangelist

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    Why do you say that the 15.6" isn't portable? I'm just curious, I have a skewed view on portability because I'm tall, and I'm sure they could put a higher powered card in there, but I'm sure there's other design issues they didn't want to forfeit in order to use the higher powered card (ala 6770m). Plus that would cannibalize dv6t sales. The notebook can't be closer to a typical 14 due to the size of the screen, if they were to drop .4" and go to 14.1" screen then they could probably source the part easier and be able to provide an actual 14" that can game. It seems all of the 'gaming grade' 14" laptops are really closer to 15's in size, just with a smaller screen and lower resolution, using the m14x for example, it's nearly the size of smaller 15's.
     
  5. Fat Dragon

    Fat Dragon Just this guy, you know?

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    I'm 6'3" and a pretty fit 220 lbs, and I think that anything larger than a large 14" is borderline for portability, especially if you have to carry an adapter as well. Then again, I bike a lot and carry a messenger bag rather than a backpack, so my views on portability are skewed by the viability of carrying a laptop in that particular situation. Still, I think a lot of people would agree that 15.6" is bigger than you want for a laptop you'll carry around regularly.

    As for cannibalizing dv6t sales, the Envy is supposed to be a premium line and as such should provide a higher profit margin as a prestige product. Instead of Envy 14's cannibalizing dv6t sales, the opposite has been happening - the dv6t has proven a more-than-ample competitor to the Envy 14 for a great deal of the Envy 14's run - it provides more power for less money in a slightly bigger and less-attractive package, and I'd say that the proportion of potential Envy 14 buyers who ended up going for the dv6t as a direct alternative would add up to a rather significant number of sales.

    That's one reason to be skeptical of the Envy 15 - if it uses a 7690 it'll have less GPU power than the current-gen dv6t for way more money (and that 7690 will not be an adequate 1080p performer for most modern games). If the 15's Radiance screen is really IPS that will be a big selling point, but the slick looks and quality screen will come at a huge price disadvantage compared to the dv6t for similar performance, especially if the screen is an upgrade.
     
  6. vsherry

    vsherry Notebook Evangelist

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    Do we know yet whether the 3D will finally output 3D to external monitors/TVs? That would get me more interested.
     
  7. wetwillycf

    wetwillycf Notebook Consultant

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    In the short few months I've been on this board, I've seen a lot of people who have really been unhappy with the choice of 6630M.

    I love my Envy 14, and yeah, I'd prefer something beefier. But I've got to say that I don't think HP deliberately tried to screw people by forcing them to choose a weak (though the evolutionary chip of the 5650, so technically, it's the same level as the first one?) GPU. I believe that there's a reason HP put the 6630M in instead of something better. It could be power-related. Perhaps there's a mobo design consideration that differs between the 6630 and 6770, and it was the same with the 5650. That could mean that they didn't want to re-engineer the mobo. Perhaps they had a particular goal for battery life with Radeon enabled. Or maybe, just maybe, they listened to all the heat complaints of Envys past, and thought you know, the way the airflow/heat dissipation is with the current design, the 6630 will be cool but the 6770 might be warm.

    All I know is maybe the 6630 was a disappointing choice when the 2nd gen was released, but for people to say HP was lazy or terrible at engineering or something, I think they probably had a bunch of valid/logical reasons behind why they chose the 6630. I'm not saying they were good, as neither me nor anybody else were there when they chose. What I'm saying is that though the Envy is far from perfect, being able to get an Envy 14 for $800 is a pretty dang good price. And if being able to get one at that price meant that (as seeing the 2nd gen is not going to be a long-term design) they didn't want to re-engineer the design to accommodate some sort of difference that we aren't privy to in order to use a stronger GPU, well, from a business perspective, perhaps they made the right choice if the lower price meant they sold 1500 more than they would have.

    And now we have these (potentially) sweet new 15 and 17 models to choose from. 14" laptops with real graphics performance are pretty uncommon. If you want portability, get an ultrabook. If you want performance, get a gaming laptop. If you want both, save your money and get a Vaio Z. Sadly, the perfect laptop doesn't exist yet at a price normal people can afford.

    I also think that any sort of benchmarks we see of this 7690 prior to release should be considered preliminary. I wouldn't get too bent out of shape either way just yet.
     
  8. Fat Dragon

    Fat Dragon Just this guy, you know?

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    The bottom line is that many of us saw the Envy 14 as a chance to create a unique combination of power and portability. Something that might not be as powerful as a bigger laptop or as portable as a smaller one, but that nevertheless could reach a hitherto unprecedented amount of both. In other words, we were hoping for something that blurred the lines of power and portability, and many of us are of the opinion that HP was too conservative in their design to deliver what we wanted.

    Don't get me wrong, even a proper 5650m would have been acceptable in the first generation, but it was gimped to 450 mHz clocks instead of the standard 550 mHz. Then they upgrade to the 6630m, which is, to be fair, the direct successor to the Envy 14's 5650m, but the nomenclature taking a step backward from 650 to 630 just serves to further highlight that it's a gimped GPU, which doesn't sit well with many people who are out to buy a "premium" product.
     
  9. Netherwind

    Netherwind Notebook Evangelist

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    I'm 6'7 and 280 ;) Anyway, the 7690 is an absolute brand new chip, the people crying rebrand have no idea what they're talking about. It is a 28nm chip based on their GCN architecture. If performance is really that dismal as the benchmarks showed it's quite possible that performance can heavily improve given time. I'd be very surprised if the 7690 is less powerful than the outgoing 5830. The IPS screen is the most important selling point I do agree, and I believe the 7690 will be an adequate performer for 1080p for modern games, not on ultra/high but medium it should do fine. I have a Targus XL backpack that I carry around all the time and I find my current 15.4" to be small, if not adequate, I used to use a 12.1" m1210 and it was just too small for my large hands, 15.6" is a pretty good size and personally I'd be okay with a 16" if it meant better cooling and better power. Don't judge a book by it's cover and we'll see the real performance of the Envy 15 once it's released with WHQL Drivers.
     
  10. TheAtreidesHawk

    TheAtreidesHawk Notebook Deity

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    I'm really not sure why people are obsessing over this whole 14' Envy. 14....15 is it really that big a difference? Anyways I'm just gonna go with my gut and get the new Envy to replace this horrible replacement I'm currently suffering with.

    Yes Ivy Bridge will be out but I've already got everything I wanted to put into the Envy and I'm gonna keep it for 5 years at the very least so by that time I'm sure something amazing will be out.
     
  11. Netherwind

    Netherwind Notebook Evangelist

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    Ivy Bridge won't be in laptops till at least June, I don't see it happening any sooner than that and I don't know about you but my laptop isn't going to last till June so I can get the 'next best thing'. There's always better tech on the horizon, they'll be talking about Haswell in June and Haswell will completely change the mobile landscape, so just buy technology when you need it and only worry about things coming out within a month of you buying your laptop unless you need it NOW.
     
  12. tunkas

    tunkas Notebook Enthusiast

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    Yes, it's clear now.
     
  13. zeth006

    zeth006 Average Joe

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    Dunno what's the big concern about having Ivy Bridge. Will the performance improvements be all that noticeable for gaming or for loading up Word 2010? And considering how the price tag is usually high for early CPU adopters, isn't it better that HP is using SB procs as it helps them keep the price tag nice and low?
     
  14. vsherry

    vsherry Notebook Evangelist

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    Every time I see better pics of the new Envy, I have to remind myself my current one is still a sexy beast. It's going to take everything out of me to avoid buying a new one.

    My guess is that the bottom of these notebooks will again be plastic. I actually think the current Envy's cover looks better, but I prefer the lighter silver color of the base.
     
  15. Fat Dragon

    Fat Dragon Just this guy, you know?

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    The rumored price for the new Envy 15 is just as high as it would be if every component was a launch-day component. A new processor generation won't cost more, it'll replace the SB's at their current price point. The main reason you could really say it costs more is because as a tech generation gets older, it gets easier to find discounts and coupons on that tech from a lot of the major resellers, so you're not likely to find $400/30% coupons on Ivy Bridge until it's been out for a few months. Then again, since the new Envys will be new themselves, expect to pay just as much as if they were carrying brand new processors until shortly before Ivy Bridge actually arrives.
     
  16. zeth006

    zeth006 Average Joe

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    Agreed. Aestheticswise, my Envy 14 is just completely different and unique. Specs are specs, new notebook fever will always be a risk. The one reason I'd want to get the new Envy 15 besides the specs is the IPS screen and higher resolution.
     
  17. Netherwind

    Netherwind Notebook Evangelist

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    I'll be honest I'd take this ones looks over the old ones any day of the week. I'm sorry but I don't like flowers on my laptops personally.
     
  18. amdme127

    amdme127 Notebook Consultant

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    I am getting really excited about these new Envy's, I currently have an HDX16t and it is ready for a replacement. I have been looking at the DV6z AMD Quad Core laptops and waiting for the Trinity lineup to come out. But the premium features of the Envy lineup and the IPS Radiance panel (15in) have caught my interest as a designer and photographer whereas the 17 in with slightly better battery life and numpad (I use this pretty extensively) for lite gaming and programming make me torn between the two sizes.

    I would probably wait for Ivy Bridge with its better power usage. It would be interesting to see Ivy Bridge vs Trinity with the Trinity running Crossfire Hybrid (Intel better processing power, AMD better graphics in the CPU/APU, I prefer better graphics and cooler operation of the AMD APUs since any quad core will be good enough for me). I would just like to see AMD Trinity as an option in this lineup, if the Intel Ivy Bridge is better (better processing, power usage, and runs cool at the same time), will probably go with it.


    Edit/Addition:
    Personally I am happy that they might offer lower graphics (performance to be seen) because I thought the 6850m was too powerful for me and that it sucked too much power (I would not of bought a current gen 17 envy due to this). The 25w TDP for the new AMD/ATI graphics sounds great to me who wants to have near to all day battery life at a minimum. I hope they do offer an upgrade for the gamers out their to a higher end gpu for a decent price; hopefully memory upgrades to 12GB and 16GB will be more reasonable in this laptop opposed to the old ones, otherwise I will save money and get the memory from newegg and self install it.
     
  19. absolutnick

    absolutnick Notebook Enthusiast

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    Can someont confirm about this ips screen on the envy 15. I seriously doubt they are gonna place one. Where did you find the info?
     
  20. amdme127

    amdme127 Notebook Consultant

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    I thought it was misinformation at first, but if you look at the battery life ratings of the 15 and 17, the 15 is quite a bit lower, which doesn't make sense unless it has an IPS panel (IPS panels use a lot more power, usually around twice the amount of a traditional TN panels).
     

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