NEW "What is bothering you right now?" Thread. Bonus: Now with 20% more bother!

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by 2.0, Dec 21, 2014.

  1. Jarhead

    Jarhead Perfectly Sane

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    Just like General Kony back in 2012 ;)

    Or more recently the ISP privacy bill.
     
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  2. hmscott

    hmscott Notebook Nobel Laureate

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    I get it, you're died in the wool defeatists, no worries, even if we do win back some of our rights and gain new or better defined protections under the law, there will still be things to fix and time to suffer, just for you ;)
     
  3. Jarhead

    Jarhead Perfectly Sane

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    IDK man, airline travel isn't a right (9.5 amendment?), and anyway personally I'm just fine with the contracts I make between myself and AA (in my case, since I already don't fly United).

    But the point was that you say people will remember whereas history (and stock prices) say otherwise.
     
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  4. Gabrielgvs

    Gabrielgvs Notebook Consultant

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    The otherwise isolated. . . animated nature of this incident aside, you seem to have a pretty optimistic view of how the public typically engages. That mode is IMO, a problem on a number of fronts.
     
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  5. Gabrielgvs

    Gabrielgvs Notebook Consultant

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    Correct; even considering the fact a fare is paid, it remains a privilege to fly on someone else's private aircraft.
     
  6. hmscott

    hmscott Notebook Nobel Laureate

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    No, no, no, it's not a privilege or a private aircraft, it's common carriage rules coupled with your common carrier's Contract of Carriage, that cover both parties responsibilities.

    You need to learn the lingo, read the government rules, and the carriers contract when boarded. Until you are boarded the carrier can follow their and government rules to bump you from a flight, either voluntarily or involuntarily - but only if you broke the rules - like didn't show up early enough.

    Check-in online before leaving for the airport, then touch base with the desk when you arrive - do this 1-3 hours before flight (times vary domestic vs international, by airline).

    Common Terms in Air Travel
    https://www.transportation.gov/sites/dot.gov/files/docs/CommonTermsAirTravel.pdf

    Oversales
    https://www.transportation.gov/airconsumer/oversales

    Enforcement action against United Airlines for breaking the oversales rules:
    https://www.transportation.gov/sites/dot.gov/files/docs/eo_2016-8-31.pdf

    ELECTRONIC CODE OF FEDERAL REGULATIONS
    I wonder what they just slipped in there... :)
    e-CFR data is current as of April 13, 2017
    https://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?tpl=/ecfrbrowse/Title14/14cfr250_main_02.tpl

    Overbooking and Denied Boarding
    Note how *everywhere* these rules talk about "boarding", once boarded and seated you have contracted protections from being ejected involuntarily.
    https://www.americanbar.org/publica...rlines_and_rights_passengers.html#Overbooking and Denied Boarding

    United Airlines Contract of Carriage Document
    (revised February 17, 2017)
    Note how *everywhere* these rules talk about "boarding", once boarded and seated you have contracted protections from being ejected involuntarily.
    https://www.united.com/web/en-US/content/contract-of-carriage.aspx#sec25
    https://www.united.com/web/en-US/content/contract.aspx

    There will likely be another DOT expansion or reemphasis of Airline Passenger Protections after recent events, here's the last one after the long delays on the tarmac:

    U.S. Department of Transportation Expands Airline Passenger Protections
    https://www.transportation.gov/brie...rtation-expands-airline-passenger-protections

    After you are boarded your common carriage coverage keeps you from being removed from a flight.

    The Airline can try to trick you or bully you into voluntarily give up your seat and leave the plane, but legally you have protections and they can't force you to give up your seat and leave the plane for the purposes of oversales, overbooking, it's all voluntary - know your rights.

    Once you have left the plane your common carriage contract protections are no longer applicable - you have to start the boarding process over again.

    You don't have the right's to a seat again until you have been given a boarding pass and have been boarded and seated.

    If you have boarded and are seated, as long as you are polite and firm, as Dr Dao was, you shouldn't be subjected to ejection from the plane as he was... hence them suing for among other things, breaking the contract of carriage that applied once boarded and seated.

    I've written this up a few times to post, but have been waiting for a lawyer to do so to back up my statements, and here it is:

    "Lawyer here. This myth that passengers don’t have rights needs to go away, ASAP. You are dead wrong when saying that United legally kicked him off the plane.

    First of all, it’s airline spin to call this an overbooking. The statutory provision granting them the ability to deny boarding is about “OVERSALES”, specifically defines as booking more reserved confirmed seats than there are available. This is not what happened. They did not overbook the flight; they had a fully booked flight, and not only did everyone already have a reserved confirmed seat, they were all sitting in them. The law allowing them to denying boarding in the event of an oversale does not apply.

    Even if it did apply, the law is unambiguously clear that airlines have to give preference to everyone with reserved confirmed seats when choosing to involuntarily deny boarding. They have to always choose the solution that will affect the least amount of reserved confirmed seats. This rule is straightforward, and United makes very clear in their own contract of carriage that employees of their own or of other carriers may be denied boarding without compensation because they do not have reserved confirmed seats. On its face, it’s clear that what they did was illegal– they gave preference to their employees over people who had reserved confirmed seats, in violation of 14 CFR 250.2a.

    Furthermore, even if you try and twist this into a legal application of 250.2a and say that United had the right to deny him boarding in the event of an overbooking; they did NOT have the right to kick him off the plane. Their contract of carriage highlights there is a complete difference in rights after you’ve boarded and sat on the plane, and Rule 21 goes over the specific scenarios where you could get kicked off. NONE of them apply here. He did absolutely nothing wrong and shouldn’t have been targeted. He’s going to leave with a hefty settlement after this fiasco."
    http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2017/04/united-passenger-removal-reporting-management-fail.html
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2017
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  7. Kaze No Tamashii

    Kaze No Tamashii Notebook Evangelist

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    would windows phone eventually get better?
     
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  8. hmscott

    hmscott Notebook Nobel Laureate

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    Better at what? Better at being sold would be good ;)

    Microsoft and other OEM's haven't completely given up yet...

    MICROSOFT SURFACE PHONE: EVERYTHING YOU NEED TO KNOW
    http://www.trustedreviews.com/news/microsoft-surface-phone-release-date-news-specs-price-rumours
    The Microsoft Surface Phone is long-awaited, and desperately needed. Here’s what we know about the Microsoft Surface Phone release date, specs, features, price and more.

    Windows Phone News
    http://www.windowscentral.com/category/news

    But not Nokia, they've completed dumped Windows 10 mobile, and are now going all Android:

    It's Almost TIME For The Nokia 8: Release Date & Specs News
    http://www.knowyourmobile.com/mobil...mwc-2017-leaks-specs-rumours-features-details

    Because of Nokia's monumental failures of late, I'd almost be willing to bet against Nokia, this being a sign that Windows 10 Phone is going to re-emerge... not so sure what to say :)
     
  9. radji

    radji Sanity = ?-x

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    All the BSODs my Alienware has been throwing up lately is getting irritating. :mad:
     
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  10. Datamonger

    Datamonger Notebook Evangelist

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    Sold my Dell XPS 13 on Amazon. The buyer is in Alaska, so even the cheapest option with UPS/FedEx is over $50. UPS 2nd Day Air is only a few cents more, so the buyer won't be waiting until the end of next week for the computer, so that's nice. Still though, $61 total for shipping.....
     
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