New Clevos with Max-Q?

Discussion in 'Sager and Clevo' started by pdrogfer, May 30, 2017.

  1. pdrogfer

    pdrogfer Newbie

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  2. sicily428

    sicily428 Donuts!! :)

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  3. Papusan

    Papusan BGA Filthy = That sucks!! STAHP! Dont buy FILTH...

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    Crippled power will never be a good idea!! Who want go back to mobile graphics with less power than the desktop versions? A crippled design intended for thin flimsy Apple similar Windoze laptops!!
     
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  4. bennyg

    bennyg Notebook Deity

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    Ohmahgerd, marketing spiel overload.

    Benchmarking will be interesting with all these on the fly/under the hood things going on

    Sounds like a bunch of visual fidelity compromises to make thin gaming laptops less problematic without just coming out and saying, we're not designing with tolerance buffers we're going to continue selling this stuff with "desktop quality" graphics then try and hide the fact it isn't capable of that with dodgy behind the scenes tricks that the average joe won't notice
     
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  5. Ionising_Radiation

    Ionising_Radiation ?v = ve*ln(m0/m1)

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    I posted this on Reddit:

    This is a nice way of saying they'll stuff a GTX 1080 in a thin-and-light, and throttle it when a heavy, sustained load is exerted on the GPU. Here's the Wikipedia entry on max-Q in aerodynamics, specifically relating to the Space Shuttle:
    Let's read between the lines a little. nVidia's website states:
    Yeah, that's called binning and under-volting*. No need for buzzwords like 'peak efficiency', 'low voltage optimised clock curve' blah blah— the chips are simply cherry-picked to leak less current and use less voltage (and in turn use less power) than a given random chip at a given clock frequency. This is what nVidia has done since last year with Pascal, given the fact that the GTX 1050 to GTX 1080 on notebooks are *almost exactly the same chips as their desktop counterparts, just with reduced clock speeds and lower TDPs. Nothing new here, just more buzzwords.

    Then we have:
    A whole paragraph to say that they'll be using better, tighter VRMs, thicker heat pipes, heatsinks with denser fin arrays and faster fans. You can't get any better cooling in laptops which are flat, and have to use squirrel-cage fans instead of the large, axial ones we see on desktop cases, CPU and GPU coolers. Possibly the addition of vapour chambers like the Clevo P870KM1, which would make such thin notebooks, not exactly very light.

    Finally, there's:
    This is essentially Radeon Chill, which, guess what—*throttles* the GPU when the scene displaying onscreen is not intensive. Sure, it's useful for a laptop, but why put a GTX 1080 in an 18mm-thick chassis in the first place, and then throttle it to 'keep it cool and quiet'?

    All in all, this is nonsense, and pure marketing. It is unfortunate that people are lapping it up, because physics dictates otherwise. Say a given notebook has a Core i7-7820HK CPU with TDP 45 W, and a GTX 1080 with TDP 180 W. How is one going to remove roughly 200 to 250 J of thermal energy every second, without the notebook heating up, or the fans spinning up and—surprise, surprise—generating noise? Take a look at a notebook that is built on the concept of Max-Q, the thin, light Razer Blade Pro with the GTX 1080. Under gaming/synthetic bench loads, the GPU throttles so badly, that it performs more like a GTX 1070*. The RBP hit roughly 35 - 38 FPS at 4K on *The Witcher 3*; typical *desktop GTX 1080s hit nearly 50% more than that, at 53 FPS.

    nVidia is using Max-Q to justify putting a very high TDP GPU in a thin-and-light notebook that will not be able to cool it well enough when a heavy, sustained maximum load is thrown at it. nVidia is actually marketing the fact that notebooks will throttle to keep themselves cool, instead of asking OEMs to design their notebooks to dissipate the maximum amount of heat generated, i.e. design thicker, fatter notebooks to keep things cool instead of throttling to keep things cool. Uninformed notebook buyers will fork out an extra several hundred quid for a notebook '18mm thick—as thin as a MacBook Air' only for it to perform hardly better than the MacBook Air anyway (this is hyperbole, but the point is made). *This is not a good thing*. It's like paying for a Lamborghini engine but in a Corolla chassis, where the engine overheats and throttles back when you try to exceed 100 km h^(-1).

    TL;DR: Max-Q means overpowered, thin notebooks that cannot cool their components and hence throttle, and worse, where this throttling is actually an *advertised feature*.
     
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  6. Papusan

    Papusan BGA Filthy = That sucks!! STAHP! Dont buy FILTH...

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    Now that Nvidia has said A. So expect B !! More mess and we will not get rid of it. These low powered graphics were the reason why Nvidia stopped with M named graphics card. Back and forth... Just as far!! A sad day for us all!! I wonder what way Nvidia will cripple next gen graphics for laptops. This doesn't look very promising!!
     
  7. jaybee83

    jaybee83 Biotech-Doc

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    on the bright side: no more excuses not to include standard MXM form factor pascal gpus above 1060 for us older laptop users :p ;)
     
  8. Prema

    Prema Little BIOS Mod

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    Last edited: May 30, 2017
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  9. Papusan

    Papusan BGA Filthy = That sucks!! STAHP! Dont buy FILTH...

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    Exactly:vbbiggrin:
     
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  10. Prema

    Prema Little BIOS Mod

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    I know that Clevo's new slim models can run and cool regular clocks/watts versions of the 1070&1060 as they have being doing that ever since they started R&D, BUT NVIDIA marketing is believed to be so successful to make people WANT Max-Q that they are down-clocked with Max-Q firmware just to get the Max-Q sticker.
    In other words, Clevo artificially cripples their superior hardware with firmware just to appeal to non-tech savvy end-user (the majority) who thinks the emphasis of 'Max-Q' is on 'MAX' rather than 'Q'.
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2017
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