1. You may have noticed things look a little different around here - we've switched to a new platform (XenForo) and have some new forum styles and features. This how-to guide will help you find your way around. If you find anything that looks strange, post it in this thread.

MultiBooting, EasyBCD and Recovery Partition..

Discussion in 'Acer' started by kisetsu17, May 7, 2009.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. kisetsu17

    kisetsu17 Took me long enough

    Reputations:
    287
    Messages:
    770
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    31
    Whoa, wait, the long directions was for making a bootable XP CD with utilities? Whoa. Hardcore man. Hahaha. I think I'd have to wait until summer classes end to try this one (one more week). Hehe

    Anyway, my XP disk already is an SP3, so could I just skip to the process after integrating SP3 on the disk? :D it feels like I'm under-replying (there such a term? XD) with your posts, since your posts seem to be super-detailed and all, but yeah, sorry, and great thing you're doing there..hoping I'd be able to make the same sometime after the weekends :D

    +rep for you man.
     
  2. AcerAspire2930

    AcerAspire2930 Notebook Enthusiast

    Reputations:
    2
    Messages:
    44
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    15
    Hi there, the instructions included an install CD for XP with SP3 for the Acer with AHCI drivers, just for fun, I think you've made one already :)

    Then they went on to show how to get a PE boot CD with a partition tool and a backup tool. So two CD's. Yes you can skip the first part :)

    Been having a play with DriveImage XML for backup. It's free but limited.

    It can only see visible partitions of FATxx and NTFS. So we can use it to backup C: and D: (the default drive layout). Although our PQSERVICE partition is NTFS and Visible it has a partition ID of 27. DriveImage XML can not back this partition up :( unless :D ....

    ....we change the partition ID to 07 using PTEDIT32.EXE.

    Method:
    1. Create a new folder on D: called "DriveImageXLM" and a sub folder "PQSERVICE"
    2. Run PTEDIT32 and change partition 1 ID from 27 to 07
    3. Reboot to BartPE with DriveImage XLM
    Start DriveImage XLM, follow the on screen prompts to select Partition 1 (Possibly E:) PQSERVICE and locate the folder created earlier "D:\DriveImageXLM\PQSERVICE" as the location for the backup.

    I should have put PTEDIT32.EXE on the BartPE CD as I could change the ID back to 27 once finished and reboot to Vista again.

    DriveImage XLM also has an installer so you can mount the backup in Vista and extract files such as the "ACERBOOT.ISO" which you've used. Also SOURCES\BOOT.WIM which contains MBRWRWIN.EXE and RTMBR.BIN among other to restore the Acer MBR.

    [EDIT] you could actually just install DriveImage XLM in Vista change ID reboot back to Vista and backup PQSERVICE from Vista. Change ID back to 27 and reboot again and Vista will ignor that partition. [/EDIT]

    Enjoy :D

    [UPDATE]
    EASEUS Partition Master 3.5 Home Edition is haveing trouble partitioning Acer Drive from BartPE CD.
     
  3. kisetsu17

    kisetsu17 Took me long enough

    Reputations:
    287
    Messages:
    770
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    31
    Great, great, thanks!

    Anyway, if I wanted to make a fresh Vista installation (not from the recovery disk) I should back up PQSERVICE and then restore it afterwards? Hehe. Tell me if this is too tasking of you to answer, :D
     
  4. AcerAspire2930

    AcerAspire2930 Notebook Enthusiast

    Reputations:
    2
    Messages:
    44
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    15
    Just watching bubbles floating around the desktop - it's so peaseful :)

    I'm giving up on the PQSERVICE partition for a bit and also the Free EASEUS Partition Master 3.5 Home Edition and come to think of it DriveImage XML. They're cr... :D

    I've been used to using System Commander, PowerQuest Drive Image and Paragon tools to manage the hard disk tasks - They cost but do the job without fuss.

    The PQSERVICE partition is an Aladin's Cave of challanges that I would eventually like to understand but for now is only a restore of Vista with bloatware.

    Keeping the function of PQSERVICE using the default Acer MBR will require the fresh install of Vista in (format) the same partition as the factory Vista.

    I think once you have backed up to network or DVD's the PQSERVICE partition and the MBR you'll probably never use it again!!!! :)

    I know I never want to go through the factory D2D restore process again untill I've had a holiday :)

    Backing up PQSERVICE partition doen't mean there is any need to move or delete it. It's only 10GB and invisible most of the time. You lose one primary partition but that's not much. You can still have two separate OS installs and a DATA drive (Vista and XP). Remember if you want to try Win7 then you could install over (format) XP as the idea is to have fresh installs with all drivers and maybe some utilities then do a backup of a working OS you have created with your choices. The restore process is then just 6 to 10 mins not like the Acer restore that adds eApps etc... after.

    So to change or try new os just install over XP and should you want to go back 10 mins then you are :) or delete PQSERVICE :D

    I have 3 primaries - I go on a bit don't I lol - and an extended with two logicals and use PTEdit32 to change boot order between the OS.

    32GB is OK for Vista and 16GB OK for XP :)
     
  5. kisetsu17

    kisetsu17 Took me long enough

    Reputations:
    287
    Messages:
    770
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    31
    That's one thing that's bugging me as well..what's the difference of Primary and Logical drives??

    Do you think I'd stop on my quest in recovering the Alt+F10 function while I am dualbooting? I did manage to create recovery DVD's already. Also the goals I was trying to achieve in installing XP seem to not work out the way I wanted them to either, so...

    BTW let me add you up in my buddy list. :D
     
  6. AcerAspire2930

    AcerAspire2930 Notebook Enthusiast

    Reputations:
    2
    Messages:
    44
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    15
    I look at Partitions simply but limited.

    1. A Partition is an area on a hard disk that requires a file system in order to function as usable space. If it hasn't got a file system then not usable. If it's free space then its not a partition. To use a hard drive. Create a Partition, Format it with a File System then Mount the Partition.

    2. A Partition is one of three types:
    a) PRIMARY
    b) EXTENDED
    c) LOGICAL

    3. A Primary Partition is where you install Windows. For it to BOOT it must be ACTIVE and visable UNHIDDEN.

    4. You can have a maximum of 4 Primary Partitions but only ONE ACTIVE, although all can be UNHIDDEN.

    5. There can only be ONE EXTENDED PARTITION and this partition is at the expence of one of the Primary Partitions. So if there is an Extended Partition there can be a maximum of 3 Primary Partition. Linux can install a Boot Loader to this Partition but Windows can not. The Extended Partition has no File System and is only usable if LOGICAL DRIVES are created within it's boundaries.

    6. Logical Drives are partitions within the Extended Partition. Each Partition that can be accessed require a mount point. This mount point is usually a Drive Letter. To access a partition regardless of it being a Primary or Logical requires the OS to understand the File System.

    7. The main differance between Primary and Logical is dependent on the OS.

    8. Windows can only boot from a Primary Partition but can have it's system files in a Logical Drive.

    9. You can split an Extended Partition into many Logical Drives.

    Dualbooting and the Alt+F10 is still viable but I think it requires:

    PRIMARY PARTITION PQSERVICE
    PRIMARY PARTITION for Windows
    ....

    more!

    I think the quest is posible if you change your partitions back to default.

    PQSERVICE (Primary ID 27)
    ACER (Primary ID 07 Active)
    DATA (can't remember but think Primary ID 07 too but not Active)

    Once that is done install XP onto DATA and enable Dual boot with Vista incharge then restore the Acer MBR.

    DATA could be converted to an Extended Partition and Logical drives made but that would be messy :)
     
  7. AcerAspire2930

    AcerAspire2930 Notebook Enthusiast

    Reputations:
    2
    Messages:
    44
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    15
    He's an update :)

    Just bought an iomega 320GB usb drive, swaped it for my 250GB Acer drive and now reinstalling to factory.

    Nice little upgrade and using the iomega caddy to hold the old Acer 250GB drive.

    Impluse buy :D

    For info:

    Used DriveImageXML from the BartPE and the backup that I stored on another USB drive. DriveImageXML also restored the MBR with the Acer Alt+F10 which is how I began the restore. The reason I wanted a factory restore on the 320GB drive is to ensure the hardware and Vista Activation was OK.

    This time I'll have a go at Dualboot using standard config (3 partitions) Vista and XP, which is what this topic is all about :D

    Anyway hope all's well with your PC as I'm quite pleased with my upgrade and external USB drive :)
     
  8. Thernen

    Thernen Notebook Geek

    Reputations:
    0
    Messages:
    78
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    15
    Does anyone have the steps for doing this with Acronis True Image 2009?
     
  9. AcerAspire2930

    AcerAspire2930 Notebook Enthusiast

    Reputations:
    2
    Messages:
    44
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    15
    Acronis True Image 2009. This can manage a restore partition using Alt + F11 if I remember correctly. It also puts it's restore partition at the end of the drive, if memory serves...

    ...You can also backup to a partition using compressed files which is my preffered method. But I'm not sure of the steps involved within that prog.

    [EDIT] Forgot to mention you should backup MBR and Vista Activation too. [/EDIT]

    To install XP into a Vista system and enable Acer's Alt + F10
    Have a minimum of 3 partitions, default Acer config.

    PQSERVICE - invisible restore partition
    ACER - Vista
    DATA - D: and where XP will be installed

    use HDHacker to backup MBR - you'll see the text "Acer/2..system"
    reboot from XP CD and install to D
    once XP is installed repair Vista with Vista DVD (which is a problem if you don't have it!)
    Vista will now boot. Install EasyBCD and add XP.
    Reboot to check Multiboot status.
    Restore MBR

    Alt + F10 will now work with Vista XP dualboot but restoring Vista with Alt + F10 will mean needing to download EasyBCD and adding XP again. Also any programs installed to XP but using Vista's C drive for storage will no longer work or work properly... perhaps!

    :)
     
  10. Thernen

    Thernen Notebook Geek

    Reputations:
    0
    Messages:
    78
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    15
    My system came with Vista Home Premium 64-bit installed. I would like to back up all the partitions. I would like to install a bigger HD then restore this system. How would I do this?
     
  11. AcerAspire2930

    AcerAspire2930 Notebook Enthusiast

    Reputations:
    2
    Messages:
    44
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    15
    The important parts of the Acer are:

    BIOS + MBR + PQSERVICE

    BIOS should be ok, I've only messed up the OEM BIOS once and that's with command line switches - anyway, the BIOS isn't touched so that can be left.

    MBR + I use HDHacker which is a windows based app, I don't know if 64 will run it but it might with a right click and Compatibility...

    There are also MBR backups within the PQSERVICE Partition.

    I found DriveImage XML good as it backed up and restored both the MBR and PQSERVICE partition so no need for HDHacker.

    The important parts of your DATA are FILES and thus don't require a partition backup image only a file file backup (archive).

    So I would backup my user files such as MP3 and docs and web addresses and emails and... to an external device.

    Then backup the PQSERVICE and MBR with DriveImage XML again to an external device.

    Install new drive and then restore using DriveImage XML the image/MBR backup to the new drive.

    Reboot and press Alt + F10 hopefully the restore will begine on the new drive :)

    When I did this I had access to the new drive as it came with an external enclosure with USB support. I could take the Acer drive out of the laptop and put the new drive in and as I had an USB external enclosure to put the Acer drive into I could also access all my files.
     
  12. kisetsu17

    kisetsu17 Took me long enough

    Reputations:
    287
    Messages:
    770
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    31
    Wow, you really got to hand it to AcerAspire2930 there..he works charms! (segue: any short name for AcerAspire? How about AA? :lol:)

    Anyway, this might prove useful, considering my dad wants my old laptop (a Lenovo, though) and wants its harddrive upgraded but with the recovery partition, but the thing is he wants it to have XP instead of Vista. Haha may have to tinker with it myself if time comes.

    Anyway, I'm going to try restoring the Alt+F10 function later, and see if the thing works with mine.. AA, do you have any idea if I could upgrade my harddrive from 320 to 500? Or is that too much already? :confused: of course not until I manage to save up for it. Hahaha. I'm gonna save this thread in advance now, might not be able to dig it up if I finally get the chance to upgrade harddrives.

    PS:

    by the way, when you changed the harddrive, it wont matter what brand you chose for a harddrive, right? I mean, the AHCI/IDE confusion is in the chipset of the laptop itself, right? -_-'
     
  13. AcerAspire2930

    AcerAspire2930 Notebook Enthusiast

    Reputations:
    2
    Messages:
    44
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    15
    AHCI is Chipset. I would imagine that "any" upgrade drive would support this mode. The Iomega drive was a Seagate Momentus 5400 and my Acer 2930 was also Seagate Momentus 5400 (not sure of the point(x) but it wasn't 6 (5400.x)).

    I've thought more on the recovery partition and it's purpose. As it stands the recovery of the OS restores all including what I don't want. It also only restores the partition with Vista. I think as we are savvy with a PC perhaps at this time we could install a "recovery only" OS (XP with a Backup Restore program like DriveImage) in the PQSERVICE area and if needed boot to the restore OS and recover the other OS's from there.

    This would require a Boot Manager within the recovery partition or a Boot Manager such as Avanquest System Commander.

    If the partition table is unchanged maybe Alt + F10 could be used. You would need to manually set ID to 27 (if it needs to be 27)....

    AA is cool :D

    The Acer Recovery Partition is quite hard and time consuming to edit and is based around Vista and WIM.

    [EDIT]
    Acer Aspire 2930 Harddrive = Seagate Momentus 5400.4 SATA 3Gb/s 250-GB Hard Drive
    hxxp://www.seagate.com/ww/v/index.jsp?vgnextoid=c7de03cf785c6110VgnVCM100000f5ee0a0aRCRD&locale=en-US

    Iomega Drive = Seagate Momentus 5400.6 SATA 3Gb/s 320-GB Hard Drive
    hxxp://www.seagate.com/ww/v/index.jsp?name=st9320325as-momentus-5400.6-sata-3gb-320gb-hd&vgnextoid=31a9e0f933140210VgnVCM1000001a48090aRCRD&locale=en-US
    [/EDIT]
     
  14. AcerAspire2930

    AcerAspire2930 Notebook Enthusiast

    Reputations:
    2
    Messages:
    44
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    15
    Ok ~ Good news double post :)

    Been looking at the MBR in Hex editors without much luck - maybe I was looking too much at the Acer string.

    Anyway, 3 partitions weren't enough needed more.

    Good news is 1. Created 3 primary and 1 extended with 3 logical. So far so good. Then just thought put the Acer MBR back and see what happens.

    Well the Laptop wouldn't boot but it did have 4 partitions!
    10GB 111GB 111GB and remaining free space! Basicly the default Acer config.

    Without messing with the partitions or setting any active or hidden etc... I restored the previous MBR and rebooted. Good News is that all partitions were restored (3 primary and 1 extended with 3 logical).

    Back to the Hex editor and at the bottom I noticed a pattern...

    07

    OK a small pattern but when looking closer and compairing Acer MBR to my new MBR the address of these patters became clearish. :)
    Acer:
    000001c0h: 01 00 27 FE FF FF ....
    000001d0h: FF FF 07 FE FF FF ....
    000001e0h: 00 00 00 00 00 00 ....
    000001f0h: 00 00 00 00 00 00 ....

    My MBR:
    000001c0h: 01 00 07 FE FF FF ....
    000001d0h: FF FF 07 FE FF FF ....
    000001e0h: FF FF 07 FE FF FE ....
    000001f0h: FF FE 0F FE FF FE .... Extended partition

    There is possibly more info at 00000000h 33... ? but may just beable to swap data from the bottom of the sector to enable Alt + F10 and a new partition table :)

    Early days :)

    [EDIT] seems to work, just edit the last 4 hex lines to match your partition table.

    1. Get a working Acer MBR (Alt + F10)
    2. Create the Partitions of your choice and install OS
    3. Backup new MBR
    4. Edit Last 4 lines of Acer MBR with new MBR

    Testing still...
    [/EDIT]
    [EDIT2]
    With an edited Acer MBR with the last 4 lines changed to discribe your main partitions.
    The first partition will need Alt+F10 key press at boot inorder to function correctly as simply editing the boot and file system values don't work.
    The File system will change to FAT32 (0B) but the boot value will remain 80 (bootable). The system will crash. Restart and press Alt + F10 will correct.
    Use PTEDIT32 to change the boot value from 80 to 00 (not bootable) and change another partition to enable boot to that (os installed or to be installed).
    After rebooting the new partition will boot and as a result the File System ID of the PQSERVICE Partition will have change to 27, not accessable.
    The contence of all partitions are not affected.
    [/EDIT2]
     
  15. kisetsu17

    kisetsu17 Took me long enough

    Reputations:
    287
    Messages:
    770
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    31
    Wow, that's hardcore, man. Hahaha.

    Anyway, yeah, I think the reason why I can't restore the default Acer MBR and the Alt+F10 Function back then was because I created another partition, so instead of the MBR recognizing only two, it might have gotten shocked at finding out it had another one to take care of. :lol:

    Which hex editor do you use for this? I might reinstall my XP (as I lost it just last night, tried to restore Acer MBR) WITHOUT repartitioning the D: drive, then I'll see if the Alt+F10 works or something. Then if not I'll go by the hex-editing mode. :D

    BTW, AA, (yeah cool nick there huh :D) I was thinking of switching into a 7200rpm harddrive from my WDC harddrive w/c is a 5400rpm one..would that be just a waste of, uhh, things? :D
     
  16. Thernen

    Thernen Notebook Geek

    Reputations:
    0
    Messages:
    78
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    15
    I installed the DiskImage XML. It does not see the 2 hidden Acer volumes. When I look at the restore option (have not backed up anything yet) it does see the 2 hidden volumes.
     
  17. AcerAspire2930

    AcerAspire2930 Notebook Enthusiast

    Reputations:
    2
    Messages:
    44
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    15
    DO NOT REBOOT UNTIL PARTITION ID RESTORED

    Hi there, as above don't reboot until ID's restored...

    Try this (as DriveImage can only see NTFS and FATxx):

    Start PTEDIT32 (run as admin or compatibility mode if needed) and look at the window. The Hidden partitions will have values in type other than 07.

    I don't know why you have 2 partitions that are hidden so becarefull.

    I think values will look like this: (You must remember the Values you have as you will need to restore them manually)

    27 00 ........ Do Not Touch the rest of the values :D
    07 80 .....
    07 00 .....
    ?? 00 ..... I just think the last partition is hidden for some reason...

    If you change a value the value will turn RED and you'll have two new buttons:

    Discard Changes
    Save Changes

    Only edit the Type box.

    So change 27 to 07 and Save Changes (DO NOT REBOOT)

    Now open Drive Image and see if the partition is available...
    ...If not you may need to open Admin Tools/Computer Manager and give the partition a letter

    Open PTEDIT32 angain and restore the values to what they were - Save changes. It's OK to reboot now.

    I haven't tried this myself and when you backup only backup to a drive that you normally see. C: or D: if D: is hard disk.
     
  18. AcerAspire2930

    AcerAspire2930 Notebook Enthusiast

    Reputations:
    2
    Messages:
    44
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    15
    Another update is with installing eRecovery software. It won't install unless:

    eRecovery Installation requires>

    Factory Default Image Located: \D2D\IMAGES
    Acer Bootable File: ACERBOOT.ISO
    Patch Disc (folder exist): \D2D\PATCH
    Software Disc (folder exist): C:\Acer\Preload\Autorun
    Hidden Partition Lable: PQSERVICE

    Folders can be empty.

    \D2D\IMAGES & \D2D\PATCH are located root of PQSERVICE Partition. Patch can be empty but must exist.

    \D2D\IMAGES must contain files the name of which will be found in ImageInfo.dat

    I used 3 files
    POP0100M04EN0C21.000
    POP0100M04EN0C21.WSI
    POP0100M04EN0C210000.DSI

    and edited the ImageInfo.dat file from ImageCount=145 to ImageCount=1 (ie 1 file .000)

    All files are place holder empty content files (renamed txt files)

    The ImageInfo.dat file should also exist but contain valid restore image info.

    C:\Acer\Preload\Autorun is located on C, your working Vista drive

    All other files and folders are located in PQSERVICE which can be accessable with ID changed. You can view and edit a DAT file with notepad.

    To work correctly eRecovery will require correct files in these location (Factory Backup will not work)
    But you may still beable to create your own backups...

    [EDIT]
    Doesn't work!
    Wont burn backup cd/dvd's
    and will only restore to the second partition regardless of the source backup
    :(
    [/EDIT]
     
  19. Thernen

    Thernen Notebook Geek

    Reputations:
    0
    Messages:
    78
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    15
    Think I will just give up trying to copy the files. It doesn't seem to work for me.
     
  20. AcerAspire2930

    AcerAspire2930 Notebook Enthusiast

    Reputations:
    2
    Messages:
    44
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    15
    Hi there Thernen. PC's are a pain to work with as they're slow...

    ...it's true, the boot time and the "try this..." approach all take time, and we're left waiting and waiting...

    ...Always have a break from it. Remember the only stuff that can't be replaced with a download is your data. Your pictures, Your purchaced MP3's, Your emails and other documents. Always backup these files (two copies are better than one) the rest can be solved one way or another.

    The reason to backup is mainly to recover quicker than one would if having to clean install. The other reason is that most new pc's don't come with CD/DVD install disks.

    As long as your PC is running then all is good.

    If you want to try later or get more advice just post. As for my help I think I'd need to know what your hard drive looks like...

    [​IMG]

    ...If you could give me the numbers in the Type boxes from top to bottom and the boot numbers too. In my image above:

    07 80
    07 00
    07 00
    0F 00

    Use the PTEdit32.EXE app. When done just close the app (Top right X)

    No preasure :D

    [EDIT]
    A ha! The last partition is possibly Acer Arcade Instant-On ~ Not a recovery partition.
    Possibly FAT32 or NTFS - Now if you couldn't see the partition with 07 try 0B (oh Bee)
    It won't be an extended partition as XP boots from there (not that XP can't boot from extended...)
    I'll get told off if I don't search :D
    [/EDIT]
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page