Microsoft's UWP framework - Why it's bad for gaming

Discussion in 'Gaming (Software and Graphics Cards)' started by hmscott, Jul 26, 2016.

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  1. hmscott

    hmscott Notebook Nobel Laureate

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    Tim Sweeney thinks Microsoft will make Steam "progressively worse" with Windows 10 patches
    By Shaun Prescott 12 hours ago
    Epic Games founder renews attack on Microsoft's UWP framework.
    http://www.pcgamer.com/tim-sweeney-...gressively-worse-with-windows-10-patches/#nnn

    "It's well established that Tim Sweeney, co-founder of Epic Games and co-creator of the Unreal Engine, is not a fan of where Microsoft is headed with Windows 10. He's criticised the Universal Windows Platform twice this year, claiming that it's an attempt by Microsoft to monopolise what has traditionally been a happily open platform.

    Now, in an interview with Edge Magazine, Sweeney has become even more direct in his criticisms, claiming that future updates to Windows 10 could serve to erode the usefulness of third-party applications and storefronts like Steam.

    "There are two programming interfaces for Windows and every app has to choose one of them," he said. "Every Steam app – every PC game for the past few decades – has used Win32. It’s been both responsible for the vibrant software market we have now, but also for malware. Any program can be a virus. Universal Windows Platform is seen as an antidote to that. It’s sandboxed – much more locked down."

    "The risk here is that, if Microsoft convinces everybody to use UWP, then they phase out Win32 apps. If they can succeed in doing that then it’s a small leap to forcing all apps and games to be distributed through the Windows Store. Once we reach that point, the PC has become a closed platform. It won’t be that one day they flip a switch that will break your Steam library – what they’re trying to do is a series of sneaky manoeuvres. They make it more and more inconvenient to use the old apps, and, simultaneously, they try to become the only source for the new ones."

    While that could technically be true, how could Microsoft ever hope to bring down something as gargantuan as Steam, either intentionally or inadvertently? Sweeney believes they have a plan for that.

    "Slowly, over the next five years, they will force-patch Windows 10 to make Steam progressively worse and more broken. They’ll never completely break it, but will continue to break it until, in five years, people are so fed up that Steam is buggy that the Windows Store seems like an ideal alternative. That’s exactly what they did to their previous competitors in other areas. Now they’re doing it to Steam. It’s only just starting to become visible. Microsoft might not be competent enough to succeed with their plan, but they’re certainly trying."

    Sweeney has previously said that the PC has remained at the vanguard of graphics innovation because it's an open platform. Microsoft's supposed attempts to turn Windows into a closed platform risks neutering new breakthroughs such as VR before they've had a chance to flourish. "

    How can we make sure Microsoft doesn't ruin Steam, Uplay, GOG, etc on Windows 10?

    Is the only way to stop Microsoft to not use UWP and Windows 10.

    Should we all remain on Windows 7/8.1 and game there?
     
  2. bloodhawk

    bloodhawk Derailer of threads.

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    Sensitivity over 9000.
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2016
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  3. killkenny1

    killkenny1 Too weird to live, too rare to die.

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    What was it?
     
  4. bloodhawk

    bloodhawk Derailer of threads.

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    Touchy People.
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2016
  5. hmscott

    hmscott Notebook Nobel Laureate

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    Wow, you think that is a valid comment? This guy who has 1000x more resources than you have, and you want to paint him as a homeless guy?

    How does that help us stop Microsoft from ruining gaming with UWP and Windows 10?

    When you tear down those speaking out intelligently and with much experience dealing with Microsoft on this very problem for many years, you aren't helping.

    What are you thinking??

    Do you or your development company have a vested interest in Microsoft succeeding in killing off 3rd party gaming services by UWP succeeding?
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2016
  6. bloodhawk

    bloodhawk Derailer of threads.

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    Whoa whoa, relax. Its wasn't meant to be offensive. I have met him personally a few times, and he is an amazing person who deserves and and has my utmost respect.

    So please, relax. No one is tearing down or painting anyone in any way.

    Peace out.
     
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  7. hmscott

    hmscott Notebook Nobel Laureate

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    Glad to hear it, I thought you meant something different than you said, I just needed to hear you confirm that. Funny comments aren't always true or helpful, and that one was neither helpful nor true.

    Here are some helpfully good comments to that article:

    " Drake Warnock44 minutes ago
    I think this is what Microsoft WANTS to do, but if their launch of uwp is any indication they are not nearly competent enough to succeed."

    But, Microsoft has a consistently successful method of "failing forward" that eventually is as successful enough that we need to be aware, concerned and active so we don't inadvertantly help them succeed in shooting down open gaming for us all.

    " PoopMiner20 minutes ago
    This is a bit far fetched, but I agree with the sentiment that it's on all of us to shut them the fvck down by not buying any of the games on UWP"

    " stuarta few seconds ago
    I have noticed that my steam doesn't display anything from the store unless I am logged in as administrator."

    " Ge0force Wayne Christopheran hour ago
    "How in the hell would he know what patches Microsoft will deploy?"
    • Use your imagination. I wouldn't be surprised if UWP games suddenly perform better on DirectX13 than Steam's win32 games, or that certain DirectX13 features are only available to UWP apps. That's what Microsoft does. Remember when you were forced to buy Vista for the newest DirectX versions, while hackers could make it work on older versions after a few
    " Monger923 Wayne Christopher2 hours ago
    I hope he is wrong. From what I read about UWP, I would prefer it never got off the ground. Feels like Micro$oft is taking away freedom again."

    Lots more...
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2016
  8. bloodhawk

    bloodhawk Derailer of threads.

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    Well wasn't this obvious when Windows 10 went free? Increase/Inflate userbase and then force companies to bow down based on stats.Microsoft is not facing any major competition when it comes to OS's that can run games properly. Its the same case, as with Intel/NVIDIA monarchy.
    We need more players out there, otherwise things will just keep on getting locked down harder.

    Personally all i care about is CSGO and DOTA2 , and im sure SteamOS is going to be a nice OS for gaming, specially since they are working on integrating vulkan support.
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2016
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  9. hmscott

    hmscott Notebook Nobel Laureate

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    We can't read your mind, only what you post :)

    Touchy people are most sensitive to Thoughtless people. Like I said, I didn't think you meant it, but you couldn't tell just going by what you posted.
     
  10. hmscott

    hmscott Notebook Nobel Laureate

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    We have what we need in Windows, at least we did before Windows 10 and UWP, now we need to consider running multiple machines with different OS's to do the same thing we could do with 1 system and 1 OS before?

    I don't want to multiboot Windows 10 and SteamOS to have what I already have with Windows 7/8.1, it works on Vista as well.

    SteamOS isn't going to run all my other apps, and if Windows 10 locks out 3rd party services - makes them run 2nd rate - then going to Windows 10 is a bad idea.
     
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