microsd for games viable compared to ssd?

Discussion in 'Gaming (Software and Graphics Cards)' started by hertzian56, Aug 29, 2020.

  1. Aivxtla

    Aivxtla Notebook Evangelist

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  2. Tech Junky

    Tech Junky Notebook Geek

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    The drive uses the existing UHS-II/III pins to construct a PCIe 3.0 x1 interface with the system (via a mechanical adapter) and probably standard PCIe voltage with a converter.

    SD card with a PCIe interface is not standard and will not hit the market any time soon

    problems that the SD Card Association and its member face is support for UHS-II/UHS-III in host devices

    only devices that use the UHS-II are higher-end DSLR cameras

    When the SD standard adopts PCIe, manufacturers of various special-purpose PCs/servers will benefit, but producers of consumer electronics may (again) be unwilling to incorporate new controllers into their products due to lack of immediate benefits and power consumption concerns

    PP 9 of the PDF showing the speed martrix is helpful in deciding on currently available technology.....
    ***************************************************************************************************************************

    The only issues I see besides it being a dream still at this point other than a clunky PoC w/ adapter.... The price is going to be sky high on this sort of "drive" option for quite awhile. There's no room to put a controller on the chip, there seems to be a need for the SD adapter to hold the mSD. Some applications will permit such a size difference like the DSLR mentioned. As mentioned retooling the host readers in either pc/laptop/portable will take a while to catch up as well.

    At the price point outside of a niche application this may only be released to OEM applications. With the speeds though in comparison a NVME in an enclosure will hit those on a 3.2x1 port.

    Advances to USB4 / PCIE4 just around the corner will likely table this for even longer on a mass production scale. There are already some systems in play getting closure to the 5GB/s drives breaking beyond the pci 3 x4 speeds that are just now becoming common place in the last couple of years. Most consumer applications needing speed / capacity are using the T5/T7 drives or something similar to them like the PNY Pro.

    The other issue with this type of memory is it's going to get really toasty wherever it's connecting to whether an SD reader or direct application inside a device. I've seen reviews of products where hitting thermal thresholds have melted devices and ports they were plugged into. While not common it's still a potential if a safeguard fails to shut down the drive until things cool off.

    Now with the NVME enclosure.... there's a new chip out that seems to alleviate some of the heat issue in the way that it handles the data RTL9210 based enclosures do seem to perform better than their counterparts J Micron / AS Media. The speeds are a bit more consistent as well.

    Now the density / work loads.... it's a tough sell for making a purchase decision when NVME drives are more competitive than SATA/NGFF when it comes to price / capacity / TBW / warranty and so on. There's a premium now on older technology versus the newer standards which is a bit counter intuitive to the way things used to work when something new was released the price on the existing would drop after a little while.

    Really at this point it's all localized speeds since to get beyond 100MB/s over a network you need to get into 10GE territory which gets you closer to 1GB/s but then you have to have a destination that supports the same speeds and that's going to take similar drives on that end or a faster RAID setup to hit the transfer speeds.

    10GE ports on a laptop typically need a TB3 adapter to add one to a system and those are ~$300. On the PC side in a case you can do 10GE for ~$100. The sweet spot right now would probably a 2.5GE / 5GE but that has been slow to roll out since the costs for those chips / speeds is still considerably higher than just moving to a 10GE and calling it a day.

    It's a bit of a rabbit hole to get point to point data speeds across an ecosystem.
     
  3. TheReciever

    TheReciever D! For Dragon!

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    its a proof of concept dude, its of course its going to be used via an adapter when its not currently an adopted standard.

    NVME enclosures arent a good solution at all, I already assisted the military in doing exactly that for hot swap OS drives and into the field 80% of the drives came back no longer functioning 1 month after deployment.
     
  4. Tech Junky

    Tech Junky Notebook Geek

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    Okay... MIL spec field use is a totally different ball game as well using them for a hot swap OS. 80% failure of NVME w/o adequate protection makes sense since you're competing with the controller heat issues / venting of enclosures or hitting throttle issues because you can't.

    I can see the need for compact and internalized needs due to not wanting to get things snagged on something and breaking off like a USB stick. ,For hot swap OS / run from other than traditional sata/pcie I suspect they would be using a linux based OS or something other than Windows in a traditional sense.

    I can't think of a solution that meets all of the requirements that will stand up to the case use at least in the consumer market. There are pico options but, there's still that slight chance of it getting snagged and with the lack of protrusion, the heat issue comes back into play w/ potential melt down of the card / adapter / port.
     
  5. TheReciever

    TheReciever D! For Dragon!

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    They werent carrying around bare PCB's as you make it sound, and no, Linux was not utilized. They were enclosed and sealed when not in use, but that didnt keep the NVME drives in a functional state because there are elements outside of the enclosures that have to be accounted for, I wasnt the account manager, so it wasnt my problem beyond telling them its not going to be a good investment and keeping it together when they started coming back before I was even done with the project. "MIL spec" is just a keyword for a majority of what they use, it doesnt change much, in fact they wouldve been better off with a standard laptop, of which a majority of other military sites did, and despite the laptops they ordered being cheap garbage they are still in use.

    All I stated is that this method would be a nice solution for what the OP is looking for if it was available for consumers, no where did I say that it was a perfect technology with 0 drawbacks. Such a thing exists exactly no where.

    All this critique because you didnt understand that I wasnt speaking about currently existing 3rd party adapters for devices I wasnt talking about? Jeez, You win dude, I have absolutely no desire to participate in this thread anymore.

    Unsubbed.
     
  6. hertzian56

    hertzian56 Notebook Consultant

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    Yeah I think the read speeds would be the most important but I get the point, it did take a lot longer to write to for a few gb's. Yeah Switch probably has a pretty high speed interface. It's really just trying to find another free slot for an internal drive for games, I've already filled the hdd slot with an ssd but that's already full of my best and most demanding games. It's also only half as big as the 500 hdd. Well when the 500 hdd finally dies then I'll try this out or just get another 1tb 2.5 hdd and take out the ssd I've got in there. Would be good to have 128gb microsd sandisk image mate, they're 23.50 in store. Says up to 100 Mbps on the box. Even just to store more things on that just stays in the slot.
     
  7. hfm

    hfm Notebook Prophet

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    SSD prices are supposed to keep dropping through the end of the year into next year about another 15% or so. Maybe hold out and you can just get a new SSD and not have to compromise on speed and endurance.
     
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  8. hertzian56

    hertzian56 Notebook Consultant

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    Yeah but you can't buy in the store ssd's lower than 500gb and for various reasons I'm limited to in store right now only. The ppgb(if not quality) is within range, 64 for 500 .128 wd blue ssd, and 23.50 for 128 .183 sandisk image mate, but with a lower total cost per item.

    Otherwise it's really just onto eb for a tb range hdd replacement for 30$. Probably will just wait until the failing drive dies, frankly it has a lot of older games I haven't played in a long time but I just don't want to uninstall like MGSV, batman arkham series, bioshock, deadspace series, sekiro, old fallouts etc and a few new games. The old ones probably could benefit from a new install when I actually want to play them again anyways. I juggle ssd games but ACodyssey/Origins, Witcher 3, KCD, GTA5, thehunter cow. Fallout 4/Prey.

    Diskmark read for my ssd's are over 500 Mbps, hdd was 65Mbps and this old sandisk 16gb was 22 Mbps lol

    Still it would be awesome if the speeds of microsd's could be ssd speeds and the other qualities of ssd's, all those drive bays in laptops could be filled up with a desktop 2080ti and the fans needed lol
     
  9. Jdpurvis

    Jdpurvis Notebook Evangelist

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    My friend, there is an old saying about getting what you pay for... It may be quite a while before there would be a micro-SD for $25 that would fit a standard adapter and equal an SSD in performance. OTOH, good quality 1TB SSD's are now selling for less than $90 on Amazon (you could probably do better elsewhere), so you could simply replace the smaller of your SSD's with a larger one.. Not sure why you would be looking for smaller and smaller SSD's...
    Good luck with your quest.
     
  10. hertzian56

    hertzian56 Notebook Consultant

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    No quest but a laptop has limited internal slots was just looking to see if the sd slot could be utilized like an ssd for improved games performance at that lower price is all. Yeah I can get a wd blue 1 TB ssd at wallyworld for 105 now if I wanted to. I have about 628 gb of ssd space all full, games that benefit are so big now.
     
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