MacBook Pro with Retina - Impressions from a Windows Guy

Discussion in 'Apple and Mac OS X' started by ZoinksS2k, Jun 16, 2012.

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  1. ewitte12

    ewitte12 Notebook Evangelist

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    Yep I carry both the laptops in my sig around everywhere. Although your going to be able to at least do something if you have a dedicated card. A few are decently playable on the HD4000 but its not something I would count on.
     
  2. Karamazovmm

    Karamazovmm Overthinking? Always!

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    how can the airflow be better?
     
  3. tijo

    tijo Sacred Blame Super Moderator

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    If they have the same fan(s) and heatsink(s), the airflow will be the same indeed. Now, if you have bigger fans and heatsinks, yeah airflow will be better, but it is not the "same" system, the design of both follow the same principles even if they are not identical in that case though.
     
  4. Karamazovmm

    Karamazovmm Overthinking? Always!

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    do please explain, I think by principle you are saying that they focus on getting in cold air and expelling hot air

    but in no way the design of air circulation between the components is going to be the same or that the volume of the airflow would be the same.

    another problem is that they dont have the same fan or heatsinks
     
  5. tijo

    tijo Sacred Blame Super Moderator

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    Re-reading my post, I guess it was confusing.

    Yes, heatsinks do push cold air in and expel hot air, but it does so in a very localized manner so I was saying that if the cooling systems for both the retina and regular MBP were identical (I know they're not now so it's just an if), then the size of the chassis would have no significant effect on the cooling capacity of the notebook.

    Just forget that second sentence in the quote, it is just very badly worded. :p

    Now that I look at pictures of both, it looks like the retina is better designed to draw in cold air than the regular MBP and that will likely make a difference in favor of the retina imo.
    I didn't cross ref this quote to check whether it was accurate or not and assumed it was as well, so I got burned for not doing my own research. Not the first time it happened. :eek:
     
  6. Karamazovmm

    Karamazovmm Overthinking? Always!

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    thats alright, I was kind of baffled with your statement and may have come likely desperate in the way that I wrote

    I dont know maybe depending on how things are directed you may suffer from tunneling effect, like if i use a fan in 2m room is going to be different in effect than in 30cm tube, there is lack of dispersion from the air, if we could use the fan to cause a turbulence in the sense that the flow of the air collapsed on itself instead of spreading would also make a difference

    just kind of asking and saying you are the engineer here not me
     
  7. tijo

    tijo Sacred Blame Super Moderator

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    Been a while since I did some fluid mechanics with compressible flow, but I'm neck deep in heat exchanger design right now so I'm half up to date.

    Assuming both had identical cooling systems and ignoring compressibility effects (don't think they'd make a difference here, but I'd have to go through my fluid mechanics books again to make sure), I don't think the difference in volume would be enough to make a difference, the fans would be moving the same amount of air and the components like the HDD (or SSD) and RAM don't generate much heat anyways so the air arriving through the heatsink should be pretty close to room temp. The mass of air in the classic would be a little higher, but the difference would have a negligible effect overall (slow moving or non moving air is pretty crappy at transferring heat). It's in the heatsink fins, radiator if you prefer, where the air velocity is much higher and there is real turbulence that the heat transfer is quite good.

    Now, by looking at both actual cooling systems, the fact that the classic MBP takes it's air so close to the exhaust (if I'm not mistaken, the intakes and exhaust are both on the rear), you probably get some of the hot air recirculating inside the notebook while the retina takes it's air from the sides so there is no such recirculation of hot air. I actually like the intake placement on the retina, the heatsink and fans are a tad small for my tastes (I'm one of the nuts running their notebooks under heavy use for more than 12 hours straight though), but overall the retina has better engineered cooling than the classic, let's hope the next refresh brings similar cooling to the classic if Apple doesn't simply kill the classic.
     
  8. Karamazovmm

    Karamazovmm Overthinking? Always!

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    well you are right regarding on the cooling of the classic, the exchange of air was problematic due to the heat build up, given that the intake is in the same place as the out.

    Thanks for the explanation!

    On the other news, here is what I think will happen:

    MBA - take over the place of the mbp 13 - they are being sold a lot these days

    RMBP 13 - will stay around the same price, this is indeed an expensive machine to make, and I bet those 35w quads are still going to be expensive (they are higher binned), they are losing their margin after all

    RMBP 15 - possible price reduction, not holding my breath on it.

    MBP line is dead and in the ground, though looking at the ipad way of things, maybe some cannibalization is in order, but the dropping of the high end model of the mbp 15 is a very large no no for that pc eating each other policy

    What I do hope is for a price reduction to what once was the mbp line up. That the RMBP 13 receives a new sata cable that allows for 7mm HDD to be installed (crucial m500 with 960gb looking at you), and that I shall live 200 years and be able to use underpants on top of some very manly leggings
     
  9. tijo

    tijo Sacred Blame Super Moderator

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    I can definitely see the MBA 13" taking the place of the MBP13" and quad cores in the rMPB 13" would be nice indeed. If there is a price reduction on the 15" rMBP, I'm betting on the SSD.
     
  10. Karamazovmm

    Karamazovmm Overthinking? Always!

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    SSD - since they have recently put sandisk marvell based SSDs (sandisk version of the crucial m4 controller in there), Im betting that we may see more of it and less of samsung and hopefully much less of toshiba and its sandforce controllers.

    Cost - you can clearly see that they have been trying to win on production costs on several fronts with the rmbp line, the SSD is uniformed, despite the rmbp 13 dont needing one. Regarding mobos, there is only one general design, you can bolt whatever and how much you want afterwards, problem here stil is stock, you have 4 mobos in the MBA line, 2 in the rmbp 13, 6 in the rmbp 15.

    The main problem here is that we like to customize things, and so since they created a mobo that doesnt accept any deviation from what it is, they need to make up that in stock. Their best strategy would be to make a single model, much like what razer did, and give that a middle of the pack cpu (like the i7 3740qm) and a good enough gpu (like the 7870m), with 16gb of ram, their production costs would go lower, despite the increase in the cpu cost, and their stock cost would go way down.

    They need to get the stock problem soon, or they wil incur in losses from their ipad strategy of maintenance, i.e. there isnt one

    Although that can be alleviated by the larger amount of apple care being sold, not to mention that the cost of the parts that is already extremely high, is going to get higher

    If they cut more in their margins, apple is going to lose one of their best CEOs, the market is not going to tollerate that and the fall of the stock price is already extremely alarming. His neck is really on the line
     
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