M6700 video upgrade - P5000 vs M5000m vs K5100m

Discussion in 'Dell Latitude, Vostro, and Precision' started by JHughen, Mar 23, 2019.

  1. JHughen

    JHughen Notebook Enthusiast

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    I have a M6700 that has been a real workhorse for me. it has a K4000m, i7 3840QM, 32GB ram, and the IPS RGB LED touch screen. I recently changed the 3ds Max renderer I mainly use to hardware base IRAY which takes advantage of the Cuda cores to compute the render. I found a P5000 card that would physically fit and double my rendering speed which when rendering animation could save major major time. I would really like to give it a go and I've have seen on this forum where a couple of guys got it working. But that said I'm a little concerned about having to jump thru to many hoops to get it to work and stability once it's working. so before I jump down that path my questions are....

    1. Has anyone else done any more installs of P5000/P4000 on a M6700 and do you have anymore advice in doing it?

    2. While clock speeds are slower, GP/s less, and a 1/4 less cuda cores than the P5000, both the K5100m or the M5000m would give me a significant boost in render speed. Would either/both of these cards an easier more dependable video upgrade for my M6700 ?

    thanks for any input,
    Joel
    Joel
     
  2. igor_ischuk

    igor_ischuk Newbie

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    Last edited: Mar 24, 2019
  3. Aaron44126

    Aaron44126 Notebook Prophet

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    See my sig for links about my experience with both the P5000 and M5000M. I have some benchmark results in each as well.

    The P5000 is a bit of a pain to get working. It works with the non-IPS system as well. (My thread is linked above by igor and I do not have the IPS display.) It is, however, by far the best performing card currently available that is known to work in the M6700.

    Note that with the P5000 installed (without IPS display) you will have to run with Optimus turned on; the Pascal cards do not support LVDS so it will not work with Optimus turned off.
    Also note, to my knowledge no one has gotten a P4000 to work. We only have a working vBIOS for the P5000.

    M5000M is easier, you just have to modify the NVIDIA INF file and you are good to go.
    The easiest is the GeForce 980M, if you do not need the Quadro features then it will perform the same or a tad better than the M5000M. You do not even have to modify the INF file (using the latest drivers from NVIDIA's site), it's the simplest drop-in replacement.

    [Edit]
    Also I have run into BSOD issues with the M6700/P5000 which I reported in that thread as well. I haven't had a BSOD since turning PCIe link state power management off, and it has been over two weeks, but I am not quite convinced that it is stable until it goes for well over a month without a crash.
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2019
  4. JHughen

    JHughen Notebook Enthusiast

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    First, thanks for the quick responses.
    On the above quote.....

    1. Can you point me to what specifically those modification are to the Inf file ?
    2. My M6700 is my production machine. It has very little interaction/exposure with the internet outside of software license requirements for "phoning home" etc. I'm still running Win7Pro. I've always been a "if it's not broke don't fix it" kind of guy. As such I'm still running A12 bios as I haven't seen any need to upgrade. Would i need to update bios to do this M5000m upgrade ?
    3. Is there any special VideoBios I would need to install on the M5000m. I found the card on amazon for 459-499 but says it's for HP Zbook. Should I find the Dell Vbios for it or a Engineering version ?
    4. As for the K5100m, is that just a straight bolt in, update drivers n go ?

    Sorry for the laundry list of questions.
    Thanks
    Joel
     
  5. Aaron44126

    Aaron44126 Notebook Prophet

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    1.
    Find: PCI\VEN_10DE&DEV_13F8&SUBSYS_06DA1028
    Replace with: PCI\VEN_10DE&DEV_13F8&SUBSYS_153F1028

    Find: PCI\VEN_10DE&DEV_13F8&SUBSYS_16DA1028
    Replace with: PCI\VEN_10DE&DEV_13F8&SUBSYS_053F1028

    Note, this is specific to the M5000M. Modifying the INF file will cause the driver to appear unsigned so you will have to jump through some hoops to get it loaded. (Google: loading unsigned windows driver)

    2. There is no specific BIOS requirements; however, the latest BIOS contain security fixes for Intel CPU and IME vulnerabilities, upgrading is recommended. (Likewise, Windows 7 monthly security updates will be going away at the end of the year, upgrading is recommended; you can still get Windows 10 for free.)

    3. Setting P5000 aside, you only need to muck with the vBIOS for any of these cards if they are pulled from an HP system. I recommend that you find one that was pulled from a Dell system. (You're going to have to look on eBay; use the "make an offer" feature and you should be able to get it for $400 or less.) Otherwise, you will have to locate a vBIOS file from a Dell card and flash it onto the HP card using nvflash.

    4. I'm pretty sure that you will have to do the INF mod for any Quadro card that you install in here if it was not one of the original set that was supported (K3000M/K4000M/K5000M). The issue is that the NVIDIA INF files only contain entries for "supported" motherboard/card combos.
     
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  6. JHughen

    JHughen Notebook Enthusiast

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    Thanks so much for your assistance. I think i can muddle through from here. I found a Factory refab for for $400. It's for a Dell so the vbios should be good. You input has been invaluable. If I run into any problems I'll chime in.

    I know win7 is getting up there but it's been so solid for me and I stay off the internet with my production machines and they are on an isolated network. I've got 2 production desktops also still running Win7pro. When most of my software providers decided to screw their current customers by switching to "rent ware", I updated all my perpetual perm seat licenses one last time since I had about 20K invested. I wasn't going to be held hostage with with "no pay no play" rent ware. I'm able to do what I need with CS6 master collection and 3ds Max 2015 so far. I think max would be fine on Win10pro but not so sure about CS6. I was planning a switch over this summer but with 3 machines to deal with in a render farm it's a week easy to get it all tweeked and stable, Its another of those "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" things I've been putting off.

    Looking down the road I will most likely pic up a M7720 later this year while you can still get them, so I might revisit the P5000 upgrade. I heard that Dell switched from the mxm card slot after that ? Do you know if you can put the newer 6 core i7/xeons in the m7720 ?

    thanks again for your help.

    Joel
     
  7. Aaron44126

    Aaron44126 Notebook Prophet

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    Starting with the Precision 7710 and Intel sixth-gen CPUs, the CPUs are soldered onto the motherboard. You're stuck with what you get and can't swap it out -- unless you replace the whole motherboard -- but you are of course limimted to the CPUs that originally shipped with that type of system. (This isn't a Dell thing, all mobile CPUs are like this now; any laptop that has a CPU socket is hosting a desktop CPU.)

    Dell switched away from MXM with the Precision 7730. The 7720 does have an MXM slot and can run the Quadro P5000. Upgrading it any further is currently unknown. The industry as a whole is moving away from MXM.
     
  8. JHughen

    JHughen Notebook Enthusiast

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    Aaron,

    I know it's been a while but I was slammed with work and just now getting around to install that M5000M in my 6700 (currently has a K4000M).
    I looked all thru the inf file that is with the current nvidia driver I'm using (276) and there is no listing for

    "
    Find: PCI\VEN_10DE&DEV_13F8&SUBSYS_06DA1028
    Replace with: PCI\VEN_10DE&DEV_13F8&SUBSYS_153F1028

    Find: PCI\VEN_10DE&DEV_13F8&SUBSYS_16DA1028
    Replace with: PCI\VEN_10DE&DEV_13F8&SUBSYS_053F1028
    "
    I assume cause it's a driver from before the M5000M came out ? I'm using that driver cause it's the last driver approved by Adobe for use with CS6.

    I looked at the lastest driver from dell for the M5000M (listed for the 7720) and it contains that listing.

    I looked at the lastest driver from Nvidia (418) that is listed for both the K4000M and the M5000M and it doesn't have that direct listing but does have some listings under the 13F8 product code.

    So... How should I proceed to install this M5000M card on my 6700 ?

    Thanks

    Joel
     
  9. Aaron44126

    Aaron44126 Notebook Prophet

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    You need to perform this find and replace. With the drivers from NVIDIA's web site it is in nvdmwi.inf. With drivers from elsewhere the filename may be different.

    Optimus ON: Replace VEN_10DE&DEV_13F8&SUBSYS_06DA1028 with VEN_10DE&DEV_13F8&SUBSYS_153F1028
    Optimus OFF: Replace VEN_10DE&DEV_13F8&SUBSYS_16DA1028 with VEN_10DE&DEV_13F8&SUBSYS_053F1028
    (Note, there may be multiple occurrences, replace all of them)
    I can confirm that this works with the latest Quadro mobile drivers from NVIDIA's web site. I do this replacement with every driver release, I am currently running 431.02. This is M6700 with Quadro M5000M running Windows 10.

    You will need to be in test driver signing mode or have "disable driver signature enforcement" enabled at boot time in order to install the driver with modded INF. After the driver is installed you can boot normally.

    The 276.xx drivers are from around 2011-2012? The Quadro M5000M wasn't released until 2015. Those drivers are definitely too old to work with it. I recommend grabbing the latest driver from NVIDIA's site, I doubt that there will be any problem with Adobe CS6.
     
  10. JHughen

    JHughen Notebook Enthusiast

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    Aaron, Thanks,
    I Downloaded 431. I noticed that it is not compatible with the k4000m. 425 is the latest driver compatible with both the k4000m and the M5000M.

    SO...
    should i mod 425,uninstall current 276,clean out driver, turn off signage, install modded 425, then swap the cards OR

    mod 431, uninstall current driver,clean out driver,turn off signage, swap cards, then install modded 431 ?

    I'm curious about the mod. I looked over the inf files of 276,425,431. I can see the connection 13F8 has with the M5000M and 153F1028/053F1028 have with the K4000M family of Kx000M cards but what are we really telling the installer with this mod ? I just like to understand what those different numbers mean and what they are saying.

    Thanks for all your help

    Joel
     
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