LG Gram 2021 announced: 14, 16 and 17

Discussion in 'LG' started by RS4, Dec 16, 2020.

  1. hfm

    hfm Notebook Prophet

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    I'd get the i7 myself, just for the extra L3 cache and a little more iGPU oomph. Aside from that they are nearly identical if you can hold the same PL1. Quite honestly the variance in heat sink contact area and TIM application quality is going to make a bigger difference. Probably why it's a good reason to put some quality TIM on there like Gelid GC Extreme. But from what I've seen that only really makes a difference in idle temps, I think with equal quality heat sink assembly flatness and contact pressure + quality TIM we're going to saturate that heat pipe/sink assembly well before we get to any real differences. I suppose if you're hitting the iGPU + CPU hard and it's a CPU bound load (I dunno what load could possibly be CPU bound with that weak iGPU) could throw off a little bit of balance between the CPU and GPU and cause the i5 to sneak ahead just a little.
     
  2. extremecarver

    extremecarver Notebook Consultant

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    Well that cache and igpu is gonna need electricity all the time. And the gram should be configured to not use any single cire turbo over 4000mhz anyhow as it instantly overheats.
    For videos it's the codec not the power of the igpu that matters. Video encode again the cooling as there is no av1 encoder. I don't ever play games.

    I feel any cooling that can do over 27-28 watts will then mean that the i7 really gets faster. The additional turbo definitely only makes sense with good cooling and not caring for battery life. The power increase vs computing power increase is not worth otherwise. I5-1145g7 maybe a good compromise. Too bad undervolting isn't possible anymore. I'm sure it would save 5-10 percent power on demanding stuff and accordingly heat.

    I do really hope that Microsoft together with Intel can still improve in tiger lake efficiency for doing light tasks. It's way less efficient than kaby lake refresh for them instantly increasing clock too much. Only video decode it does really great. Just quickly moving the mouse uses 4-5 Watts per hour additional and then it waits 10 seconds or so before going into deeper battery saving.

    Running cooler is a big plus for me so it's i5
     
  3. RS4

    RS4 Notebook Consultant

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    These pictures do not show the brightness and contrast numbers but one important thing i can see in the first photo(White full brightness) is that the LG Gram 16's colour temperature is very cool as mentioned in the notebookcheck display analysis:

    "X-Rite colorimeter measurements show an overly cool color temperature out of the box and color accuracy subsequently suffers at lower saturation levels. Our calibration attempt brings down the color temperature to improve grayscale significantly."
    https://www.notebookcheck.net/LG-Gr...t-15-6-inch-Laptops.530592.0.html#toc-display

    We can make the colour temperature warmer via LG Control Center, can you play around with that slider and post some photos(White full brightness) at different warm settings?
     
  4. extremecarver

    extremecarver Notebook Consultant

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    yes - it's definitetly on the cooler side. But my T480s is too warm, and the whites are yellowish. But that screenshot was with night mode activated on the t480s - night mode is always way warmer as it cuts out blues.
     
  5. hfm

    hfm Notebook Prophet

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    If that's what's really important to you to that degree of picking it apart, you can just turn it down to 15W and never have to worry.
     
  6. extremecarver

    extremecarver Notebook Consultant

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    But you can't disable the cache and the additional graphic units. So far the few reviews point out that the i5 saves about 10 percent of cpu/GPU power Vs i7. So should mean about 5-8 percent longer runtimes on battery.
    I really hope Intel and Microsoft can still improve the power handling. It's crazy you can kinda watch a movie twice as long as editing in text editor, surfing and remote desktop on the of gram. I get about 9 hours of work time on that 80wh battery (max brightness, but at min brightness that just improves to about 12 hours. That's no better than my first laptop ever in 2006 - with a 90wh battery back then. Watching movies however that would be a huge difference...
    Can easily watch youtube for 14-20 hours on the Gram depending on display brightness and not going for more than 4k resolution.

    This i7 is sadly efficient as crap for office work. Comet lake maybe was best in that regard, ice lake worst since ages for intel. I do think it's an firmware issue tailored for max responsiveness even with power save in Windows activated...it's fine if the CPU goes to 2-3 ghz in ballanced mode, but in power saver for such things it should never go above 1.5 GHz, if at all. 1ghz one core active should be plenty. For video playback it indeed is really efficient.

    Besides the i7 costing at least 100 Euros more, more like 200 euros more. And yes - I think on battery it makes sense to disable turbo mode. On AC I would limit single core to 4000mhz, all core turbo to 3200. Any more overheats too quickly, and doesn't give noticeable improvements. Actually this increases benchmark results for any benchmark that is topping out on thermals. As any faster really uses loads of power and will be over after a couple of seconds anyhow. That way you keep it faster for longer.
    Well repasting and adding another heatpipe would likely lead to big improvments. Looked back at the thread about 2019 lg gram 17 where someone did it. If you get an 20% improvement on heat transfer here that would make a big change (and also increase battery life with the fan spinning less/slower).


    Oh yeah - and you cannot set the CPU to 15W with tiger lake anymore. You can only limit PL2 and PL1 as you like. But at 2800 Mhz all core it uses about 23 watts.
    The only other usable limit is speedshift value - the higher you go, the lower that CPU clocks. Actually the windows power profiles do not much else than adjusting the speedshift value.
    Intel doesn't allow much tweaking for tiger lake. It's all relative now and many many settings are just disregarded. Speedshift is ruling everything kinda - the exception being PL1 and PL2 and overall turbo duration or disabling it. Plus you can set Prochoot with Throttlestop. You cannot limit the speed at all otherwise. So the i7 without turbo is actually a 23 watt CPU not a 15 watt one.... The 15w is pure marketing. The U series should be sold as 28w - because that is what they really are, the turbo will go into 40 watts if the cooling can handle it... Over are the times when it was 15watt and turbo up to 28...
    AMD doesn't stick too much to their wattage either, but much better than intel however with Ryzen being way more efficient at high loads (not so sure about low workload)

    The i5 consequently will be lower power than i7.
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2021
  7. extremecarver

    extremecarver Notebook Consultant

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    Actually increasing the Prochoot doesn't even closely offset room temperature. Today I ran cinebench r20 from an air conditioned coffe place. I guess it's 20-21 degrees here.
    Prochoot 98 (the max you can set without the laptop powering down) - 1981 points
    Prochoot 90 - 1919 points.

    With room temperature 25-26 vs 20-21 increasing Prochoot by 8 degrees is only getting you a little advantage seemingly, but can only offset room temperature maybe 30%. So a 8 degree prochoot change is about as much as 3 degree room temperature change. So my results are actually in line all around - I did not expect this behaviour. I would have thought that increasing Prochoot by 8 degrees should offset 5 degrees of warmer room temperature (most reviews are done at 20-21 degrees). Even though with increased Prochoot I constantly run into the Prochoot value.. (it will overshoot by up to 2 degrees sometimes - so you cannot go higher than 2 degrees offset. better use 3 degree offset - 98 instead of 90 will give you about 3% higher scores on thermal bound benchmarks - even though you kinda increase the thermal headroom of the CPU cores by 10%).
    Another heatpipe would really be the best solution. LG really should have invested 10 more grams or so in a more efficient heatpipe on the 16" and 17" models. Not for actual performance, but lower temps and increasing battery life a bit.

    Edit: playing with the values a bit more I managed 2050 points. The important change is to make kinda limit the processor to 28 watts by disabling pl2.
    Disabling turbo all together will run at 2800 MHz and around 22 watts. If you make sure at the begining it only runs at 28 watts instead of the hard limit of 30 watts that of set, you will get higher overall score due to operating a longer time without thermal throttle.

    It's still kinda crazy for intel to sell a 15w U processor with guaranteed base frequency of 2800 MHz, which will need around 22 watts to keep that speed. It should be called a 22 watt processor plus turbo. And of kinda designed the cooling to exactly manage those 22 watts at 20-21 degrees.

    The max with good cooling would be 4100 MHz all core, but yeah the of is quite far away from that. Single core 4700. Other notebooks hit 40-45 watts on pl2. LG already took the smart move to set 30w due to the limited cooling. Decreasing pl2 to 0.2 seconds or so likely will give you best performance. But disable all together to get better scores for anything long term. Not sure how much it actually helps to have 1-2 seconds or pl2 to directly run into thermal throttle instead of better limiting power a bit more conservative and having 20-30 seconds before thermal throttle kicks in
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2021
  8. RS4

    RS4 Notebook Consultant

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    We can make the colour temperature warmer via LG Control Center, can you play around with that slider and see if it makes any difference?
     
  9. extremecarver

    extremecarver Notebook Consultant

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    I have to see again, but I think there are just 3 settings, normal, cold and warm. If you want different profile you need to use .icg profile in windows or use the intel graphic center

    As I said, I tried the .icg profile from notebookcheck, but without it on my gram 16 the colors are more accurate and better. There are definitely different revisions or versions of the panel, but they name them all the same. The panel name for the 17" is the same since they switched to 16:10
     
  10. extremecarver

    extremecarver Notebook Consultant

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    Okay - I just looked at it using a white paper for comparison - there is 10 steps overall. And yes moving the slider 1-2 steps towards warmer seems to give the most realistic white. But the colors don't pop as much anymore - and I feel it lowers the overall contrast a bit. One step towards warmer actually may be the best compromise for contrast and color accuracy on my lg gram 16. But yeah - as all tests have shown, if you want color accuracy you better get the 17". That one has aced all tests so far with 0.6-0.7 deltaE from factory plus 50% higher contrast, and 33% higher brightness (plus longer battery life). Now of course you can just hope they don't have a panel lottery which cannot be identified without measurement device or having to lg gram side to side. Or hope that they do in future put the same quality panel also in the 16".

    Order:
    full warm,
    full cold,
    middle,
    1 step towards warm
    2 steps towards warm

    Problem - the white ballance of the camera changed - so you can only compare to the white of the paper, not each picture. I think 1 step towards warm gives me the best results in real life. I'm not even sure it makes any sense posting those pics - without setting a manual white ballance on my phone.


    What LG actually should do is offer an RGB, DCI-P3 and Adobe RGB profile. Especially on the 17 the Adobe RGB would be fine enough - the 17" panel can show most of Adobe RGB too.
    Right now the default seems to be DCI-P3 - meaning popping colors and good contrast/very good color separation.
     

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