I've Got My Hands on a i7-9750H. Here Are Some Benchmarks... Looking for test requests!

Discussion in 'Hardware Components and Aftermarket Upgrades' started by GizmoSlip, Apr 23, 2019.

  1. Donald@HIDevolution

    Donald@HIDevolution Company Representative

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    Well, there are actually 5 USB 3.2 Gen 2 10Gb/s ports plus a USB Type-C that also supports Thunderbolt™ 3 at 40Gb/s.

    I haven't seen WiFi 6 coming in any laptops yet...if you have, can you detail them please?

    Right, but we are talking about a full size laptop. Undervolting the thin and lights will usually start at around -100mV.
     
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  2. Charles P. Jefferies

    Charles P. Jefferies TG Lead Moderator Super Moderator

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    As a product reviewer, I disagree that thermal problems are the fault of the user (or reviewer) for not undervolting.
    Most buyers will use the product as-is, which is why products are reviewed as-is; otherwise, the review would be stating things (e.g. the laptop has no thermal problems) that would not be true without modification. The reviewer may undervolt the laptop as an experiment, but that wouldn't be factored into the verdict.
    Your last statement is easy to agree with: more time should be spent by the manufacturer to prevent thermal problems.

    Charles
     
  3. gthirst

    gthirst Notebook Consultant

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    Right, but I was adding to the discussion. If the i7-9750h isn't stable beyond a -0.050mV then the thin and lights won't be able to be undervolted that far. That is what the concern was, but we obviously don't have enough samples and will have to wait and see (which is what I was talking about).

    Don't get me wrong, I completely agree with you. I think the product should be good to go out of the box - I think almost all of us will agree on that. That said, virtually any gaming laptop released in the last 2-3 years (at least) has numerous reviews stating thermal issues. Many do not even mention repad/repaste/undervolting. What I'm getting at is amateur reviews (the majority) create a really strong voice that overtake otherwise good products due to minor failures by the QC team and sales departments. As an engineer, it pains me to see these carefully designed products be lambasted in the public sector due to cheapening out on thermal paste or improper voltage settings. I don't want to point fingers and say "it is this groups fault!" completely. Clearly, there is an amalgamation between legitimately poor thermal design, cheap QC, poor settings, layman reviewers, and consumer error. In the end, I think it is a systemic issue rather than any one thing.

    I mean, I love my Alienware 13 R3, but if I didn't have tech knowledge and know what to do with tweaking the thing would be a disaster. I've spent time with many laptops, especially thin and lights, over the last few years and nearly all of them would suffer the same fate.

    I'm also not sure about the idea that most buyers will use their product as-is when it comes to these products. Enthusiast level laptops and high barrier of entry laptops seem to bring a different breed of consumer than others. Of course, we don't hear too many of their voices since the as-is consumer is much less likely to do a review or post on a forum such as this.

    Of course, it could all be assuaged if they didn't cheap out on paste, pads, and had an undervolt from the factory! I'm just rambling and repeating myself, circular logic and all! Interesting discussion for sure, thank you for engaging me. I apologize if I came off as attacking reviewers as a whole. I know I tried my hand at reviews and certainly don't do as good a job as many of our community members!
     
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  4. FalconCMH

    FalconCMH Notebook Enthusiast

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    Here is an article on Intel releasing the card:
    https://www.anandtech.com/show/14169/intel-launches-wifi-6-ax200-wireless-network-adapter

    As far as any laptops having it yet I guess it is up to manufacturers and resellers to start making it available. I personally do not want to invest in a new laptop without it.

    Oh and many sites listed this for sale MSI GT75 TITAN 4K-247 but did not have it including your site that marked it PreOrder after I spoke with Ted on it, he mentioned potentially end of May for it. This is what my original post talked about I wanted a 10 Gbs network card like my GT75 has and I wanted Intel Wifi 6 in. Ted mentioned EOY on the Intel Wifi 6 which seems like a very long wait.

    I have had my ASUS ROG Rapture GT-AX11000 for a while now and I want to use its Wifi 6 capabilities.
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2019
  5. AlexusR

    AlexusR Guest

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    Yes, pretty much this. I remember a couple of idiots in Clevo P960 thread rambling about reviewers not undervolting in every review and saying nonsense like "everyone should undervolt", totally disregarding the FACT that Intel gave an extra voltage headroom to CPUs to compensate for manufacturing variances, meaning one 8750h CPU might safely undervolt to -125 mV but another one might fail at -60 mV, and reviewers wasting their time on undervolting would only give false impression to viewers ("hey the reviewer got to -125 mV, that means I will get that too!"), doing a huge disservice to everyone. Not to mention not every user might be willing to waste time on finding a safe undervolt amount or screwing around with Throttlestop in general (personally I don't want to rely on that even though I know how to do it).

    The ONLY fault with thermal problems lies solely with manufacturers who do not apply thermal paste correctly, do not properly test for heatsink mounting pressure and do not calculate TDP of heatsink correctly (making heatsink too small with too little surface area for its fins).
     
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  6. jaybee83

    jaybee83 Biotech-Doc

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    again: there is still a lot of headroom between -50 and -80 mV. besides, please be aware that the actual voltage is important, not the maximum stable negative offset. so at -50 mV you could actually have a lower actual vcore than another cpu with a -100 mV offset, since every silicon has differing stock vcore...

    Sent from my Xiaomi Mi Max 2 (Oxygen) using Tapatalk
     
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  7. Aivxtla

    Aivxtla Notebook Evangelist

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    As of now I only see Razer having ax200 containing laptops for sale, if you select the 9th gen Core CPU versions of their laptops. But those don’t ship till May, but you can place orders right now. Dell I believe said the A51 would be their first unit to get it. I assume the M15 will get it in June along with the 9th gen CPUs.

    Falcon I wouldn’t let the card hold me back on a laptop purchase, it’s only a $20-30 self upgrade. I ordered an AX200, arriving next Wed (unfortunately Killer branded 1650) for my Dell 7577. However don’t expect a night and day improvement on 5Ghz (I’m expecting 20-25% having read about the changes) but on 2.4 GHz it may make a huge difference. Also note that most current AX routers are missing new power saving/spectral efficiency features like Target Wake Time and BSS respectively. AX is still kinda in draft phase. By the time AX is actually common and final draft routers are out better client cards will be out from Intel and others anyway so people shouldn’t really let the card dictate purchase if a really good deal on a laptop is there.

    Also from the perspective of advertised features like MU-MIMO and HT-160 working properly I feel Qualcomm based routers like the older R7800, RT2600ac and current gen RAX120 are better than Broadcom based routers like GTAX1000, RAX80, AX88U, and others. Last gen Broadcom chipset routers like the AC88U and R8500 downright actually decreased performance with MU enabled due Broadcom’s terrible implementation though the current iterations seem better.
     
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2019
  8. GizmoSlip

    GizmoSlip Notebook Deity

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    I undervolt in my reviews, but I don't try to maximize the undervolt. Most 8750H CPUs could undervolt to at least -100 mv, so that's where I maxed the undervolt typically. I try to educate my viewers on how to get the most potential from their system, so the difference between stock vs undervolt/overclock so they can get an idea of the difference it makes. Sometimes its as much as 10%, and sometimes its nothing. Depends on the system, but I think undervolting is something that is good to include in my reviews for advanced buyers, and at the same time to educate those who don't know what an undervolt is.

    I agree with you though if the reviewer doesn't mention the undervolt or make it clear, and bad expectations can be set, so it's something to be careful about.
     
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  9. pete962

    pete962 Notebook Evangelist

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    While I agree most users won't undervolt their laptops, or tweak it in any other meaningful way like disabling MS telemetry or delete factory bloatware, for example, I would speculate members of this forum are not "most users", but rather notebook enthusiasts and most of them will tweak and undervolt their system and personally I would expect on this forum reviewers would undervolt and tweak test systems as a matter of fact. And actually, it could be a very helpful and important information if system A could outperform System B costing hundreds more, by a simple undervolting/repasting/system cleaning tweaks.
     
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  10. Terreos

    Terreos Notebook Deity

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    So based on your graphs it's really not worth getting the 9750h if you already have a 8750h? Mostly curious for gaming purposes.
     
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