Is there an Undervolting tool for the Ryzen Mobile CPUs?

Discussion in 'Hardware Components and Aftermarket Upgrades' started by Richard Zheng, Feb 2, 2019.

  1. Richard Zheng

    Richard Zheng Notebook Evangelist

    Reputations:
    41
    Messages:
    341
    Likes Received:
    159
    Trophy Points:
    56
    I think the ThinkPads have pretty beefy coolers and such. The A485 can be modded to take the T480's dual heatpipe dGPU heatsink and TPFC can let you crank up those fans to keep it nice and chilly
     
  2. Deks

    Deks Notebook Prophet

    Reputations:
    1,130
    Messages:
    4,743
    Likes Received:
    1,886
    Trophy Points:
    231
    Yeah, but that's if you go do heavy modding yourself to keep the temps under control.
    The ThinkPads actually don't have that good of a cooling if the following picture is any indication for E585:
    https://www.notebookcheck.net/fileadmin/_processed_/9/6/csm_internals_31f82501d8.jpg

    And here's the inside of Thinkpad A485 innards:
    https://www.notebookcheck.net/fileadmin/_processed_/6/0/csm_DSC_0648_watermarked_103b7b124d.jpg

    I don't think I've seen any T480 models with AMD APU's.
    But quite honestly, the cooling seems atrociously poor.
    E585 seems to have a dual heat pipe system, but the T480 is really bad.
     
  3. Richard Zheng

    Richard Zheng Notebook Evangelist

    Reputations:
    41
    Messages:
    341
    Likes Received:
    159
    Trophy Points:
    56
    The dual heatpipe with single fan should be enough for those CPUs. The T480 has a dual heatpipe version you can throw into the A485
     
  4. Deks

    Deks Notebook Prophet

    Reputations:
    1,130
    Messages:
    4,743
    Likes Received:
    1,886
    Trophy Points:
    231
    You would think so... but as I said, Lenovo limits the Ryzen mobile TDP to keep the temperatures under control.
    As such, if the TDP limit is removed and the APU is allowed to reach its full TDP value, they will climb up to over 80 degrees C (which suggests a lousy cooling implementation)... that's with the dual heatpipe version.
    Another user has E858 which has the dual heat pipe installed, and when he increased the TDP limit to 30W, temps shot up to over 80 deg. C.

    Mind you, having over 80 deg C under load is not exactly bad for a laptop (although, many systems simply cannot cope even with this).... but if we can get mid and high-end laptops with temperatures at 75 degrees C or less under maximum load... then that means that the cooling design in these Ryzen mobile units is simply speaking, atrocious at best when they allow the temperatures for such low power units to reach that high up.
     
  5. Richard Zheng

    Richard Zheng Notebook Evangelist

    Reputations:
    41
    Messages:
    341
    Likes Received:
    159
    Trophy Points:
    56
    To be perfectly honest, I think any temperature would be just fine. The CPU will never reach a temperature that is critical on its own due to some form of throttling. I would not consider a laptop that gets 85 degrees C during max loads a "bad implementation" of cooling, AS LONG AS the clocks speeds and performance is high. Hell, I wouldn't bat an eye if it hit 99 degrees C during double benchmarks and performance stays strong.

    As it is, you can throttle a CPU if you want it cool, but pushing a cooling system to it's limits shows a lot about how well designed it was.

    IMO a bad implementation has less to do with how hot/cool it runs, but how high performance is during max loads.

    As an example, a laptop with i9 hits high 90s during benchmarks, cpu speeds drop BELOW base clocks, would be considered bad. But if you have another that is around the same size, even if it still hits the same high 90s, as long as performance is better I would consider the cooling to be "better"
     
  6. Deks

    Deks Notebook Prophet

    Reputations:
    1,130
    Messages:
    4,743
    Likes Received:
    1,886
    Trophy Points:
    231
    That's the thing.
    TDP limited APU's tend to drop their performance with consecutive Cinebench runs in Lenovo units.
    You can achieve a good score on the first run, but run it 5 times in a row and the results will drop like a stone.
     
  7. Richard Zheng

    Richard Zheng Notebook Evangelist

    Reputations:
    41
    Messages:
    341
    Likes Received:
    159
    Trophy Points:
    56
    That is true, but this SHOULD be true for most machines. If this doesn't happen, that means either the cooling is overkill, or the CPU is too weak to take advantage of cooling
     
  8. Deks

    Deks Notebook Prophet

    Reputations:
    1,130
    Messages:
    4,743
    Likes Received:
    1,886
    Trophy Points:
    231
    I think my point is, that SHOULD NOT be happening in the first place.
    If a hw component inside a laptop is advertised to run at specific speeds, it should be able to reach and maintain those clocks for as long as you need them (which means OEM's need to stop messing about and design proper cooling that would fulfill this task)... anything else is just false advertising and/or subject to legal issues (because they would be in violation of consumer rights laws - which leaves them open to lawsuits, lost business and reputation damage).
     
  9. Richard Zheng

    Richard Zheng Notebook Evangelist

    Reputations:
    41
    Messages:
    341
    Likes Received:
    159
    Trophy Points:
    56
    I feel like it SHOULD be happening. The whole principle behind their throttling is to have very high clock speeds for short bursts, while maintaining a lower clock speed for sustained loads. Getting an i7 hexa core CPU to run at full turbo speeds on all cores in a laptop is a pretty challenging task, but the majority could live with lower sustained clocks if it meant they could get a thinner and lighter package
     
    jeremyshaw likes this.
  10. Deks

    Deks Notebook Prophet

    Reputations:
    1,130
    Messages:
    4,743
    Likes Received:
    1,886
    Trophy Points:
    231
    No, it shouldn't be happening.
    The 2700U throttles when you subject it to stresses over long period of time which lowers its overall performance compared to where it should be (ergo, doesn't behave as it should).
    For instance, we know that high single core clocks won't matter in multi-threaded software because all cores will be running at their designated boost clocks when stressed (which is usually lower than when using just 1 core)... the point is to have cooling which allows hw to boost and maintain their designated speeds for as long as you need them.
    So if you want to do rendering for instance on 2500u/2700u using Blender or 3dsMax, the APU should be capable of reaching and maintaining its boost clocks for as long as the render lasts... not for as long as the OEM dictates due to them implementing garbage cooling.

    Same methodology applies to games... performance usually drops during games because of the APU being TDP limited (as both the CPU and iGP are fighting to get enough resources - so, in games, CPU clocks usually go down substantially because the TDP limit is preventing both it and the iGP getting enough juice at the same time).

    This can't be happening... its a faulty design plain and simple.

    Imagine using a the laptop with 2700u for a business presentation, and at first everything is running smoothly... but then, a few mins into the presentation, it starts responding less and less.
    That's a design flaw from the manufacturer who created the laptop...

    Same thing with my GL702ZC.
    It broke down twice due to an identical issue: blown motherboard circuitry for the fans which eventually leads to motherboard burning itself out (probably linked to poor cooling on the VRM's).
    Its a £1600 piece of hardware... that kind of an issue shouldn't be happening. Asus skimped on the cooling design in the early units and I was the unfortunate recipient of that problem which is still ongoing thanks to ridiculous bureaucracy.

    Don't justify bad design choices on behalf of manufacturers who don't care about consumers.
    Demand that they bring you higher quality control.

    Desktop CPU's and GPU's are capable of maintaining their advertised boost clocks indefinitely (or as long as you need them for).
    Laptop grade hardware should be able to do the same... if it can't, then its an OEM design flaw and shouldn't be compromised on.
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2019
Loading...

Share This Page