Is laptops innovation dead at the moment

Discussion in 'Hardware Components and Aftermarket Upgrades' started by cooldex, Apr 30, 2019.

  1. Papusan

    Papusan JOKEBOOK's Sucks! Dont waste your $$$ on FILTHY

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    Yeah, they go the cheapo route instead for improving the cooling capacity. Aka prepare for 8 cores without have do spew out too much money.
     
  2. Arrrrbol

    Arrrrbol Notebook Deity

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    Can't wait to see Apple use this for the next gen Macbook 'Pro' so they can shoehorn the 9th gen chips in there without doing any real work. Given their recent history though they will be the ones who manage to make it leak out and short your board and then charge you 3000 USD for a replacement. :D
     
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  3. jclausius

    jclausius Notebook Virtuoso

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    I don't recall anyone covering this... While not my cup of tea, it is something we haven't yet seen in laptop form factor

    "Lenovo shows off a folding-screen laptop, coming some time in 2020"

    - It doesn't have a name (but it'll be in the ThinkPad X1 family), it doesn't have a spec (but it's using an Intel processor), it doesn't have an operating system ("Windows" but, not specifically "Windows 10"), it doesn't have a release date more specific than "2020," and of course it doesn't have a price.

    - Lenovo has built a laptop with a folding 13.3-inch OLED 1920×1440 screen made by LG.

    https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/201...lding-screen-laptop-coming-some-time-in-2020/



    Details. Shmeetails. It's foldable... (LOL!!)
     
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  4. Support.3@XOTIC PC

    Support.3@XOTIC PC Company Representative

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    Some of the statements in there perplex me about this. "The company sees it as being a full-fledged PC that can take the place of your laptop, specifically not a mere secondary or companion device." I really don't see it. Every feature listed says"companion device" to me, not to mention that if they do put enough hardware to really work as a laptop it's going to be way more expensive than competing devices with that screen.
     
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  5. Trevayne10

    Trevayne10 Notebook Consultant

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    3 - 5 nm architectural node = game over for silicon. Game over for electrons, actually. With 7nm we're already seeing the core count per die pointlessly piling up...while mathematics and programming principles have no way to avail themselves of increasing levels of SMP / multithreading. The only roadmap ahead (imho) is photonics / optical and quantum computing.

    just my $.02


    - Trev
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2019
  6. Deks

    Deks Notebook Prophet

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    Ryzen+ is only 4% behind Intel in IPC... so the difference isn't large at all for Zen 2 to not only catch up or even surpass Intel.
    AMD did demonstrate Zen 2 8c/16th CPU against 9900K and it turned out that the AMD system slightly edged out the Intel system and consumed much less power in the process.

    Oh and, when Ryzen is paired with high speed ram (3200MhZ for example) with low latencies (cas 12 or 14), gaming performance tends to increase to the point where even overclocked Intel cannot exactly produce a viable difference - and the RAM in question wouldn't set you back any more than what you would pay to get that kind of RAM for Intel system as well.

    Zen 2 was mentioned to introduce I/O into the design along with chiplets which should reduce Infinity Fabric reliance on RAM and mostly reduce the latency issue to the point of irrelevance.

    The only reason Intel currently has better performance is mainly due to higher clocks (and that's because their 14nm node is designed for high clocks and efficiency, plus it underwent numerous optimizations)... and considering how much higher Intel parts clock, I'm not impressed with them.

    You also need to consider the premise that with Intel, not only are you paying a 60% premium for a relatively small performance increase, you also get their CPU's which are riddled with security vulnerabilities, and further reports indicate that patching up those vulnerabilities would come at a HEFTY performance impact (in effect, you'll end up paying 60% more for LOWER performance than what AMD is offering - because performance impacts on Intel cpu's could end up being in the area of 40%).

    Yes, there's an option that you disable HT for example, or not get the patches (its nice to see how MS 'caters' to Intel in regards to patching them up ASAP but are relatively slow in rolling out coding optimizations for AMD to improve performance on those CPU's), but at that point, I'd ask myself, what's the point in getting that kind of CPU?
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2019
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  7. Ashtrix

    Ashtrix ψυχή υπεροχή

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    Zen 2 doesn't have Integrated IMC, the whole I/O resides on a seperate block, 14nm. Decoupling the uncore and having a literal Northbridge on the CPU will definitely have an impact on the IF performance and DRAM reliance, the only solution is the DRAM speed bump and strong IMC instead of that weaker integrated one from the Zen+ for the sheer BW from DRAM

    Latest AMD ES processor leak 12C/24T 3.4GHz Base, the IF latency is still there and increased to 80ns and the RAM is 3200MHz DDR4 Dual Channel CL16 Micron. This time they have improved the L3 cache, so less calls to RAM, biggest rumors are at AMD Zen2 will have DDR4 4000 compatibility from the Biostar along with the MSI X570 leaks, which users are not liking due to the noise and longevity of that PCH fan on the chipset seen from both the leaks, Hopefully the top end X570 won't have to deal with that fan.

    SMT scaling and the 7nm power reductions will be great but ST performance (IPC) + the Clock speed and are the biggest things yet to be discovered, I'm personally waiting to see this new Zen2 and what it has, esp when the X570 this time is done exclusively by AMD instead of the ASMedia, so the USB controller get only Win10 support and not Win7, Z390 mobos from EVGA / ASUS can run Win7 as well.


    Also

    Ballistix DRAM Crushes World DDR4 Overclocking Record at 5726MT/s

    With the B-Die being discontinued things will be interesting, hopefully Micron takes their place, Samsung, Hynix, Micron did that price fixing on the memory business and now they want to scale back unfortunately we are impacted..
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2019
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  8. ajc9988

    ajc9988 Death by a thousand paper cuts

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    Not exactly game over. We are getting close to game over for silicon, but not quite there yet. You are forgetting using Cobalt connects to lower the resistance found with copper, which is a huge factor. Then you have working with III-V materials like Gallium Arsenide and Gallium Nitride, or working on introducing a band gap into graphene or the use of other novel 2D materials. We have until 3nm (Intel 5nm) to introduce Cobalt, Ruthenium, and other materials like that, which Intel tried to do because they didn't have EUV ready for 10nm.

    We will be moving to photonic interposers, though, and photonic based ram is in development, expected as of 2017 around 2023-25. Now, photonic based solutions right now do not give a processing boost, but they DO give extremely low power consumption. Like a revolutionary drop in power consumption.

    Also, someone figured out how to use repeatable silicon defects to create silicon based qubit chips. It may have been Intel that did that. So silicon may not be dead, as that process can build quantum chips on existing lines.

    So, yes and no. IF latency is reduced with the new generation of chips, and if you look from the earlier leak from AdoredTV to the new leak, they reduced the latency by 20ns. This 80ns is the same latency Zen and Zen+ have with memory clocked in the 2400 and 2666 range at stock. We do not have any reason to assume the memory timings were fine tuned to reduce latency either.

    Then there is a question of how they set up the new IF. If you use the full 1:1 of memory to single rate, then you will limit your memory overclock, but will have the faster IF speed (it should be noted the bandwidth of IF was doubled). Instead, if you go 2:1 memory single rate to speed of IF, then you can achieve faster memory speeds lowering the memory latency, but increasing the IF latency and decreasing the top bandwidth you would otherwise get.

    Meanwhile, you are missing the point of the fan. It is needed when you use a significant amount of I/O from storage. So you HAVE TO HAVE THE FAN, but you get the use of PCIe Gen 4 x4 on NVMe drives, which is a nice speed boost beyond what anyone else can offer.

    Moreover, with all the asmedia issues on security vulnerabilities, among other reasons, it is nice AMD is giving a shot at designing their own chipsets. The question is whether they can get the power consumption down in the next iteration or two.

    On the memory front, Samsung is likely preparing to shift lines to DDR5. Consumers will NOT get DDR5 until likely 2021, but server offerings are rumored to have DDR5 next year from AMD. There is also the chance of PCIe 5.0 coming to server products by AMD next year, but it may be the year after. There are currently no plans to give PCIe 5.0 to consumers. But, if AMD implements PCIe 5.0 next year, then it will compete with Intel's proprietary CXL interconnect (BTW, theoretical limit of IF is still higher than CXL and NVLink). This would be used to support the 600Gbps networking connectors being developed. No consumer would need PCIe 5.0 for awhile, but in HPCs, yes.
     
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  9. rickybambi

    rickybambi Notebook Consultant

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    Thoughts?
     
  10. tilleroftheearth

    tilleroftheearth Wisdom listens quietly...

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    Note: I am not this products target audience. :)

    I only saw the first 1:22 of the video and I cannot agree with anything they state.

    A notebook is not a car. It should have the 'ludicrous' mode enabled all the time. I am the one in control of the throttle and I want it available not at the touch of a button, but 'now'... whenever that 'now' is... and even when I'm just navigating the O/S.

    Great marketing spin for the kids that can't drive yet, I give them that.

    But this is about as useful as the Turbo button to 66MHz not that long ago. :)

     
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