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Intel Optane 900P SSD

Discussion in 'Solid State Drives (SSDs) and Flash Storage' started by tilleroftheearth, Oct 27, 2017.

  1. tilleroftheearth

    tilleroftheearth Wisdom listens quietly...

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    While restricted to desktop systems (for now), these are true game changers to the storage industry.

    Even the 280GB model (tested) today is worthy to be installed in any DT workstation for the O/S and Programs and even some DATA too - the more they're filled/used - the faster they are.

    For the remainder of your DATA? A 2TB+ Samsung 960 is okay for now. It will even feel faster than when it was used as an O/S drive too....

    I can finally visualize my next platforms taking shape...

    They will be built around Optane tech and will only serve to make all notebook 'workstations' feel more inadequate than ever, once again.

    See:
    https://www.anandtech.com/show/11953/the-intel-optane-ssd-900p-review
    See:
    http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/intel-optane-ssd-900p-3d-xpoint,5292.html
     
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  2. Papusan

    Papusan BGABOOKS = That sucks!! STAHP! Dont buy FILTH...

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  3. tilleroftheearth

    tilleroftheearth Wisdom listens quietly...

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    This is what I was waiting for from Optane. Intel promised this and it delivered. What am I talking about?

    "Optane 900P also delivers an entire system boost".

    Now to get this into the hands of mere mortals and see what it does for our own workflows.

    This is 2.75x over what a Samsung 960 Pro delivers. (What we've been stuck with for too, too many years now of Samsung's thermally throttling (at least in notebooks) junk).

    From the link in the quote below:

    The 'caching' that is done from inside a CPU to the external DRAM and finally the storage medium is finally catching up with what modern CPU+RAM platforms require: MORE DATA, FASTER.

    People can moan and complain about 5% or less gains from Intel over the last decade or so. But the path they were on during all that time is ready to pay off handsomely. Limited to DT's for now, but this is gen 1 day 3... can't wait to see this in a notebook that I would want to buy and use around clients (i.e. ThinkPAD). :)


     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2017
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  4. tilleroftheearth

    tilleroftheearth Wisdom listens quietly...

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    Just in case people think Intel is sitting on Optane tech and twiddling their thumbs...

    Intel just doesn't introduce new tech and see which ones stick - they know the bottlenecks of their processors and are actively working on minimizing the effect on users workflows.

    While the following requires programmers to learn new code - M/B makers to add new hardware/logic - the improvements promised will truly take the 3D Xpoint tech to the '1000x' greater than nand that Intel first hinted at when it teased us 2 years ago with Xpoint tech.


    See:
    https://software.intel.com/en-us/ar...programming-with-persistent-memory-from-intel

    For my friends that have a ton of time on their hands: :D:D:D

    hmscott :hi:

    See:
     
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  5. Papusan

    Papusan BGABOOKS = That sucks!! STAHP! Dont buy FILTH...

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    LOOL
    Maybe bro @hmscott have seen it before:D
     
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  6. hmscott

    hmscott Notebook Nobel Laureate

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    For the average person, a gamer, doing browsing and video watching in between, maybe doing some school work editing / etc, even a PCIE x4 SSD costing 2x the cost for the same sized storage SATA SSD is overkill.

    Now Optane introduces another option with 2.5x the cost of PCIE x4, and the market for that need drops another order of magnitude :)

    Optane, to pay for itself, is going to require very specific needs and testing to prove it will pay off if used.

    Maybe for you it will be what you've been looking for since SSD's promised you better workflow performance, and failed?

    Too bad the new Optane's throughput is only 2.5GB/sec vs 3.2GB/sec with PCIE x4 NVme SSD's, maybe Intel needs another generational PCIE throughput increase, or a special higher speed interface to design toward? :)
     
  7. tilleroftheearth

    tilleroftheearth Wisdom listens quietly...

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    I think you're missing the bigger picture. This is effectively gen 1 day 6 of Optane SSD's.

    Their current form isn't even close to where Intel is envisioning them for optimal leverage in a compute platform. What I read from that? SATA and NVMe is effectively dead for Intel (at least, long term). The next leap in platforms isn't going to be even more cores on a cpu... it will be the enabling of (fast) storage to be used like RAM is today. Xpoint allows for that. PCIe never will.

    Even on the horribly inefficient PCIe protocol, XPoint delivers in spades. The average person doesn't care, granted. But even they will be able to reap the benefits of this tech if/when it is delivered and matures. Benefits like instant on. Benefits like greater battery life. It may even come to pass that certain platforms may be cheaper to build because of XPoint (after all; they can replace both the RAM and the storage components in an optimal setup and if not fully replace those parts; at least partially...).

    At the MSRP prices listed: Optane SSD's will have paid for themselves for every DT user that even remotely values their time. Almost regardless of actual workload (note; if they value their time; their workload is probably not posting to fb all day...).

    SSD's still promise performance that they can't deliver - at least not sustained... But with OP'ing; they haven't failed me totally (not since I OP'd the first Intel SSD I tried that on 5 or 6 years ago...). But what they don't do is increase my productivity greatly, given the 'scores' they can post vs. HDD's (even over a mechanical storage subsystem that is also properly and optimally setup). Why do I use them then? Mainly because the cost difference is within my budget and any increase in actual performance is effectively a bonus (yeah; there are a few places where they shine; pdf editing, database manipulations, Scratch/Temp disks @ 50% OP'ing - but those few examples do not make up a large portion of my workflows/workloads, overall). There are other reasons I use them too (i.e. my competitors use them; I have too) but HUGE jumps in productivity? No, not there yet (or ever).

    Optane promises to change that, drastically. If not today; soon (enough). Disruptive change that will change the face of compute forever.

    Don't concentrate too much on the raw 'scores' when you want to compare a new product. In actual workloads, even compromised by the PCIe bus today, there is nothing that comes close to Optane - look at post 3 again.

    Think of it like enjoying up to 240FPS in your favorite game with the currently best gpu available and a new gpu card comes out that offers 150FPS. You'd scoff, immediately. Yet; if you delve a little deeper (or; just used the new component in your actual workflows for a few days...); you may find that the 240FPS gpu is actually a maximum and fluctuates from 120FPS to even a low of 20FPS minimums - while the new card gives 150FPS - sustained performance that barely fluctuates. This is what Optane is to NVMe based nand drives today.

    Intel doesn't have to develop a new PCIe increase - they've already written it off (as they should - look at the slides again above). What they already have and are working towards is the RAM interface. No storage drivers involved. More direct access to the CPU registers. Effectively HUGE amounts of RAM vs. DIMM - and all this at lower prices than previous components too.

    This will rewrite the time honoured equation of CPU + RAM = Work done
    to: CPU + Persistent Storage + RAM = Work DONE ;)

    A cursory look at this new tech and the products now offered may give some here reason to write this off as another Intel money grab. Giving very little and charging a lot for it.

    The truth is a little more complicated than that. Moving forward on Optane without making money isn't doing anyone favors - yeah; not even us mere consumers. Taking the time to put the required systems in place - at the O/S and programming levels - is more important than spewing out products without a plan.

    I don't claim to know Intel's plans any more than anyone else. But what they do show us makes me confident that Intel is taking care of me (i.e. their customers) because they're taking care of themselves - as they should.

    After all, I'm not going to invent, market and monetize a new type of memory... all the while keeping investors, customers and everyone in between happy - and also while not bankrupting the company to do so.

    But I will be willing to buy all that I can from everything I've seen so far. :)


     
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  8. hmscott

    hmscott Notebook Nobel Laureate

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    Well then, you are also saying not to buy what is being shipped today? As it's running now and benchmarking now, it's not the true promise of Optane as Intel is working toward.

    That's what I was saying too :)
     
  9. tilleroftheearth

    tilleroftheearth Wisdom listens quietly...

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    :)

    Nah; I didn't say that.

    Baby steps, baby steps.

    What is supposed to be shipping today (which I can't source, currently, btw...) is still leaps and bounds above what we had before Oct 27, 2017. In price, in performance and in usability in the types of systems we all have running today.

    Like I keep saying; directly compare a new component/platform in the exact same workflow/workloads you'd use in your current platform and it* will speak for itself. *it = 'is it worth it'.

    Given what I researched so far; I can't see how Optane SSD's (even at a 'puny' 280GB size) would be considered 'not worthy' in my DT workflows.

    Ideally, I would have 1 for my O/S + Program drive, I would have another few for my Scratch/Temp disks - and I could even have one or two for my WIP (work in progress) drives. But now, the situation has changed. We're not talking one drive - we're talking a handful or two of them ($$$$$) - and, I'd want the 480GB models throughout... - That puts the storage subsystem at a price level of the rest of the platform, or higher. Now multiply that by the number of platforms I'd need that on (a few dozen). That is why I don't buy blindly or on 'faith'. ;)

    If/when I'm able to work on such a setup as described above, I'll know if doubling the cost of the platform is worth doing for my workloads/workflows. But right now? Even a single 480GB Optane SSD driving the O/S + Programs seems to offer enough extra oomph for a mere ~$600 above what any PCIe x4 SSD can today to be called 'worth it' to me, personally (I value 'snap', very highly).

    When they're available from my favorite sources; I'll be able to answer those questions for myself.

    Right now; patience is all that is required on my part. ;)

    But to ignore the potential increase in productivity offered by any current product is not in any way shape or form what I said or meant. :)

     
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  10. hmscott

    hmscott Notebook Nobel Laureate

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    Well then, when you get your Optane units in house, please be sure and post benchmark and work-flow results so we can all gauge whether paying 5x as much for the same sized storage is worth it for our use. :D
     
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