Intel’s Core-X i9 and i7 series (x299) & Xeon (1P/2P)

Discussion in 'Hardware Components and Aftermarket Upgrades' started by Dr. AMK, May 12, 2017.

  1. hmscott

    hmscott Notebook Nobel Laureate

    Reputations:
    3,627
    Messages:
    13,511
    Likes Received:
    15,627
    Trophy Points:
    931
    The wise man can learn something from everyone - from anyone, the fool thinks he knows it all and can judge someone by their looks and a brief encounter - throwing away opportunities to learn without even realizing it.

    I've been through and thought of all those things you mention, and still I gather a lot of good information from "those video's I posted", and far more than I post.

    It's strange how I can get information where you can't, even though I know far more than they do I know I don't know everything, especially that which I haven't seen or experienced yet.

    I read my first programming book in 1970, I still read them today. Do I do it because I know everything, you'd think I would after 47 years of reading - but I still learn something about subject's I already know from people that have far fewer hours / years at the task than I have. That's most people these days :)

    That's because their perspective and cumulative knowledge is different enough from mine and everyone else's I've learned from in the past. I may learn something from what they don't say that I expect them to say, or they might have an example I haven't seen before, or they might make a mistake that I catch and that fires off thoughts of how they got there and how I know it's a mistake.

    That last one happens a lot, and it's from mistakes we learn. It's quicker and cheaper in personal costs to learn from others mistakes. The faster you can observe and experience the mistakes of others instead of slowly slogging through it all yourself - the faster you can arrive at the solutions you need as you go along the path to understanding.

    Do I roll my eye's a lot and go, wow... of course, but I keep paying attention and I do pick up enough data points from every person I listen to gain differential perspectives across saved simultaneous events in time.

    Those mass postings of videos upon the release of NDA restrictions are the best. From all those POV's the puzzle pieces form into a view not obtainable from a single "best" source.

    It's important to see how information travels in social circles, what's the platform being funded and how are people slanting their motivations into a percentage of an honest informational transfer.

    I wouldn't dare suggest any video presenter is in any way not worth listening to, as I've learned enough to know that it is foolish to pass on that which I haven't seen.

    When I see you and others poo-poo things I know are good, I know it's because you want to believe you already know it all and have nothing to learn from people that aren't as experienced as you.

    I know that POV is ever increasingly self-limiting, and more so the older you get, pretty soon there's noone to learn from in your world.

    In my world everyone has the potential of teaching me something I don't know, because I know I don't know everything. :)
     
    tilleroftheearth likes this.
  2. tilleroftheearth

    tilleroftheearth Wisdom listens quietly...

    Reputations:
    4,330
    Messages:
    11,844
    Likes Received:
    1,874
    Trophy Points:
    631
    We agree on most everything and even what you fear about me (i.e. 'I know it all') isn't true. I couldn't be participating on this forum today if it was. ;)

    Everyone has the potential to teach anyone else, agreed. But when there are better ways to get the same information (not to mention just simply testing and then judging for myself in my own workflows/workloads) being tied to a video or videos for hours on end is not the best use of my time.

    I'm a fair bit older than your 47 years. It's not what I learn new today that keeps me focused; it's also what I re-learn too. I'm not talking about forgetting things and reading about them again as if they're new; rather, I'm talking about revisiting the basics I learned many decades ago and see how they still apply today.

    I'm willing and eager to learn, constantly. But videos are the drip method of information to do that for me. I don't write them off entirely, but when they're much over a few minutes in length; I can guarantee they'll waste part of my time - even if it is a topic I'm heavily interested in.

    That 'overall' view that you get from multiple sources is what I get by simply testing/using a new component/platform in my workflows. Because I already have the highest performing systems for my workflows that I can have within my budget.

    Not that there isn't anything better out there (there always is), for someone else. But what I know is the balance of performance vs cost vs. what's available (to me) at almost any given time is what I'm already running.

    I will keep learning until I can't anymore. But anything 'online', including and maybe especially videos, won't be the optimal method for me to do so. ;)

    At least not at the depth that I want to know about how and why things work and how they're important to me/my workflows (or not).

    Seeing the information that's out there is one thing. Trusting it blindly is something I haven't done in more than half my life...

    In the end; I'm the final decision maker and that decision isn't based on what I've seen or read; it is based on the objective (productivity) stats I keep on my systems.

    I'll mention this once again as it is on point: when I joined in 2009 there was nobody in these forums who could answer my question about 'will it increase my productivity' with regards to SSD's. When I showed over the next ~18 to ~24 months that SSD's couldn't do that; I was made fun of (and worse). Only when I discovered OP'ing did SSD's make a big productivity jump for my workflows. And it wasn't something new that I learned; it was applying what I knew from around 40 years ago (short stroking HDD's).

    If/when I have time I do click on a video link and check it out. When I want actual info; there are much better sources out there today and for the foreseeable future. :)

     
    hmscott likes this.
  3. hmscott

    hmscott Notebook Nobel Laureate

    Reputations:
    3,627
    Messages:
    13,511
    Likes Received:
    15,627
    Trophy Points:
    931
    Unless there is no published info because the product hasn't been on the market, and these are the first people with hands on experience.

    Optimal or not, video's are a part of all that is available at the time they are published. Only reading print articles and ignoring other information sources limits information gathering.

    Especially in a world of sponsored alliances and paid coverage, you need to work to find unadulterated content that isn't filtered or tilted one direction or the other. Find enough sources and you can see the differences and build your filtering awareness, and inform yourself outside and around them.

    In situations where the only available information sources are the tilted ones, having tuned your awareness through being able to compare many sources on other subjects or situations you can sift through the information provided by tilted sources to get what you need without being easily confused or misinformed.

    Those are the video's I have been posting, a wide range of sources that are useful either in the video posted, or the channel for historical or future videos in their catalog.

    They aren't all winners in everyone's eye's - the same for printed articles, but they are meant to help someone - not everyone. That's what sharing information is all about.

    Everyone can find information, if you know what you are looking for, or that it exists at all. And sometimes, doing that pre-screening to get rid of the totally useless presentations, can save a lot of time.

    I know there are people out there that will never watch a video I post, but then I know it's easy for them to pass by the post and go on to the next post, while others will benefit - now or down the road. :)
     
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2017
    Vasudev and tilleroftheearth like this.
  4. tilleroftheearth

    tilleroftheearth Wisdom listens quietly...

    Reputations:
    4,330
    Messages:
    11,844
    Likes Received:
    1,874
    Trophy Points:
    631
    And there you have it; we're both confident of what we know.

    Glad that it seems like we're both confident enough to let the other hold an opposing view. ;)

    Great conversation, ty.

     
    Vasudev and hmscott like this.
  5. hmscott

    hmscott Notebook Nobel Laureate

    Reputations:
    3,627
    Messages:
    13,511
    Likes Received:
    15,627
    Trophy Points:
    931
    Yes, it's nice to exchange perspectives. :)

    I don't see them as opposing perspectives, maybe the wideness of acceptable scope is the only difference.

    Information in print distilled and served on a "silver platter" for easy consumption can make one "lazy", and such easy information presentation can give the impression of being "complete" allowing for easy manipulation of the readers.

    If all you read is from those conveniently digestible printed sources, you can be programmed however the authors or patrons desire. Which may be the goal of the format and distribution, to lock in opinion through limiting information dispersal.

    Wading through "mountains" of disparate raw information, unsponsored by the product progenitor gives information which isn't easily served or presented as there is no money in publishing the whole truth - only the truth that sells what someone is offering.

    It's really not "mountains" of information, it just seems that way - like a chore you don't want to do - doing it would take far less time than complaining about it - but complaining seems easier. Working a little harder to get useful information won't kill you, and you might learn something useful for yourself unrelated to the subject matter.

    When doing something you aren't used to doing, excuses are easy, like worrying about spending time that you'll lose without gain. It's easy to program people to be so busy that they feel they can't afford to question anything.

    Break free of those non-existent walls, watch "non-optimal" video's and let your mind wander free to find whatever it needs, you'll be surprised at what you learn.

    For one, you don't need to watch the whole video, scanning (scrubbing) through a video is like skimming a book for what you are interested in, it's a talent you won't have immediately, but it will happen over time, then adding videos to your information sources won't be a burden, it will be a nice alternative.

    Widening ones scope due to technology innovation is part of what we are all working toward, rejecting the advances along the way - not taking advantage of them - works against progress, not toward it. :)
     
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2017
    tilleroftheearth likes this.
  6. Papusan

    Papusan BGABOOKS = That sucks!! STAHP! Dont buy FILTH...

    Reputations:
    6,474
    Messages:
    14,870
    Likes Received:
    19,827
    Trophy Points:
    931
    THIS!!:)
     
    hmscott likes this.
  7. hmscott

    hmscott Notebook Nobel Laureate

    Reputations:
    3,627
    Messages:
    13,511
    Likes Received:
    15,627
    Trophy Points:
    931
    When You Should Care About VRM Temperatures (Ft. Der8auer)

    ASUS Rampage VI Extreme VRM Thermals with Intel i9-7980XE (Ft. Der8auer)
    https://www.gamersnexus.net/guides/3113-asus-rampage-vi-extreme-vrm-thermals
     
    Vasudev and Papusan like this.
  8. hmscott

    hmscott Notebook Nobel Laureate

    Reputations:
    3,627
    Messages:
    13,511
    Likes Received:
    15,627
    Trophy Points:
    931
    ASRock Releases X299 Taichi XE and X299 Gaming i9 XE: Big Boy Heatsinks
    by Joe Shields on November 9, 2017 11:00 AM EST
    https://www.anandtech.com/show/12007/asrock-releases-xe-edition-of-x299-taichi-and-gaming-i9

    "This week ASRock has released “XE” editions of two of its popular X299 motherboards: the X299 Taichi XE and the flagship X299 Professional Gaming i9 XE.

    The XE versions have a larger main heatsink, and an additional power delivery heatsink connected via heatpipe located behind the back panel VRM. Along with being larger, there are more fins cut out increasing surface area and heat dissipation capabilities. The original(s) had a single, smaller heatsink to cool the 13-phase VRM underneath and not a lot of surface area.

    Both boards now also add a second 8-pin EPS 12V connector for additional power to the CPU.

    In order to fit the updated cooling solutions, the shroud covering the back panel IO and audio sections have been removed."

    ASRock X299 Professional Gaming i9 (before)
    fatal1ty_x299_professional_gaming_i9(l3)_575px.png
    ASRock X299 Professional Gaming i9 XE (after)
    fatal1ty_x299_professional_gaming_i9_xe(l3).png
    ASRock X299 Taichi (before)
    x299_taichi(l3)_575px.png
    ASRock X299 Taichi XE (after)
    x299_taichi_xe(l3)_575px.png
    It's good to see these upgraded power and cooling motherboards coming out so quickly :)

    "In the weeks after the Skylake-X and Basin Falls (X299) chipset release, concerns were brought up with the platform’s VRM and cooling. Igor Wallossek from Tom’s Hardware looked into this issue in depth. In the end, it was found that these 140W+ CPUs, such as the i9-7900X, can use around 250W when clocked around 4.5 GHz using all cores (through burn-in testing –a worst case scenario). All that power creates heat, both at the CPU and the VRM level delivering voltage to the FIVR. This was also a problem when motherboard manufacturers were implementing their own turbo modes over the top of Intel specifications.

    The concern here there was that some motherboards do not have enough VRM cooling to dissipate the energy lost as heat from the power delivery. At base frequencies, in well ventilated cases, this doesn't appear to be a big issue, however some motherboard partners enable turbo-boosting features such as Multi Core Enhancement by default, raising clocks and voltages, and can be too aggressive with its enhancement. Of course, cooling a CPU using that amount of power isn’t as easy as strapping down a $30 air cooler on it and calling it "OK" either. The point is some motherboards in certain situations can throttle the CPU at the VRM level due to the heatsinks not being able to dissipate such loads."

    "Pricing on the XE versions of the motherboards will cost a little bit more to compensate. The Taichi is currently priced at $289 on Newegg while the Taichi XE is $322. The Fatal1ty Gaming i9 is priced at $389 with the Gaming i9 XE at $422. Both boards are asking a $33 premium. If pushing 140W processors or the 165W flagship 7980XE hard is in the plans, one may want to consider the XE versions and pay the premium, if only for peace of mind and cooler operation.

    ASUS has a Strix XE as well with a larger heatsink."
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2017
    Vasudev likes this.
  9. Papusan

    Papusan BGABOOKS = That sucks!! STAHP! Dont buy FILTH...

    Reputations:
    6,474
    Messages:
    14,870
    Likes Received:
    19,827
    Trophy Points:
    931
    Intel Z390 motherboard spotted in SiSoft Database
    @tilleroftheearth @ole!!! Want one?:D

    "Intel has an 8-core 14nm Coffee Lake processor in the works. The information surfaced from an XTU errata log is showing change-log entry that reads out as "[CFL] Added support for 8,2 core,", see below. CFL obviously is short for Coffee Lake"

    "It would be an interesting move from Intel, as typically they design one desktop processor and base all models off from that one proc. To create an additional processor holding 8-cores is very unusual. If correct, this would be an 8-core/16-threaded part in the mainstream segment, and that would mean serious competition for AMD Ryzen 7."

    "According to another leaked roadmap, Intel Z390 motherboards are to be expected in second half of 2018. Since we are seeing this Z390 leak already in November (~220+ days before 2H 2018), one could say that the timeline could have changed, so in other words, the Z390 may launch sooner."
     
    Vasudev and tilleroftheearth like this.
Loading...

Share This Page