If your MSI notebook has micro-stutters or mouse-pointer-freezes, try this.

Discussion in 'MSI' started by Prototime, Dec 2, 2016.

?

Do you experience micro-stuttering/mouse-pointer-freezing on your MSI laptop?

  1. Yes, it happens frequently, even while gaming.

    20.4%
  2. Yes, it happens frequently, but never while gaming.

    20.4%
  3. Yes, it happens occasionally, even while gaming.

    8.2%
  4. Yes, it happens occasionally, but never while gaming.

    22.4%
  5. Yes, it happens rarely or only under certain circumstances, such as when a certain program runs, etc

    10.2%
  6. Not at all.

    18.4%
  1. Prototime

    Prototime Notebook Evangelist

    Reputations:
    104
    Messages:
    484
    Likes Received:
    654
    Trophy Points:
    106
    A common problem for owners of the new "VR-ready" MSI notebooks with Pascal GPUs is micro-stuttering/mouse-pointer-freezing. It's been discussed in multiple owner's lounges, and so far, there is no one-size-fits-all solution. But thanks to a collaborative effort of several MSI notebook owners, a number of fixes have been identified--and more continue to be discovered.

    Instead of only discussing this problem across multiple owner's lounge, where owners may come up with solutions that others are less likely to see, let's centralize the conversation here and share what we've learned!

    Here's what we've discovered so far in the MSI GS43VR Phantom Pro Owner's Lounge. Please feel free to contribute anything missed here.

    First off, if your laptop has Optimus, try going into the Nvidia Control Panel and setting your preferred GPU to to "High-performance NVIDIA processor", then reboot and see if your stuttering issue is gone. If so, congratulations! This has been enough of a fix for some users. If not, or if you don't wish to always have your computer preferring the dGPU, carry on with the rest of this post.

    What causes the micro-stutters/mouse-pointer-freezes?
    While we can't be entirely certain, the most likely cause is high Deferred Procedure Call (DPC) Latency. Here's a brief explanation of DPC Latency from @PMF, which includes some additional links if you'd like to read more:


    But my micro-stuttering/mouse-pointer-freezing seems to be Optimus related; it happens only when the iGPU/dGPU switch.

    Most owners experience this issue when the iGPU/dGPU switch, and some experience it at other times. (You can tell that your dGPU turns on when your power light color turns yellow). Here's an explanation from @PMF of how DPC Latency and Optimus may interact to cause the stuttering:


    How do I measure DPC Latency?

    You can download and run a program called LatencyMon: http://www.resplendence.com/latencymon

    Run this program for about 30-60 minutes, and see if any error messages come up indicating that your system may have difficulty handling real-time audio. Also click on the "Drivers" tab to see which drivers have the highest Execution Time. One or more of these drivers may be the culprit.

    Oftentimes, but not always, an offending driver may be "ndis.sys", which is the Network Driver Interface Specification (NDIS), and is the driver for your network card. For example, @spaceray noticed he had terrible micro-stuttering when he was on wireless internet, but when he disabled his wireless and used the Ethernet port, the micro-stuttering went away. He then ran LatencyMon and saw that the Highest Execution Time for ndis.sys was 5468.120370 ms when on Ethernet, but skyrocketed to 273534.716821 ms when on wireless. This indicated pretty clearly his micro-stuttering was being caused by his Killer Wireless.

    Sometimes, it's clear what device uses a driver--like ndis.sys being used by your network card--but it's not always. For example, on my computer, LatencyMon showed that Wdf01000.sys has a high Execution Time, but there's no easy way to figure out which devices may be using this driver (and it can vary).


    How do I resolve the issue micro-stuttering/mouse-pointer-freezing?

    As I said before, there isn't a one-size-fits-all solution. But here are some things you can try - most of which involve experimenting with various device drivers.
    1. Run LatencyMon to identify which drivers have the highest Execution Times and DPC Counts.
    2. Try to identify which device uses the driver (using either the info LatencyMon gives about the driver, or Google search the driver name). See if the device's drivers are outdated. If they are, download the latest drivers for the device. You can get them typically from the manufacturer's website, or by going into your Device Manager, right-clicking on the device, and clicking "Update Driver Software."
    3. If that doesn't resolve the micro-stuttering, go into your Device Manager (for Windows 10, right-click the Start button, and then click "Device Manager") and disable that device, assuming it's not something critical. Reboot and see if micro-stuttering is still there.
      • If the micro-stuttering is completely gone, then you've identified the device whose driver is responsible for your stuttering. To prevent future stuttering, you can:
      • Simply keep the device disabled. But this would then prevent you from using the device.
      • Double-check that you have the latest driver version. This might not work, however.
      • Try rolling back to a prior driver version (which again, you may be able to get from the device manufacturer's website). You can try experimenting with various prior versions to see if you find one that resolves the stutter. This still might not work, however.
      • Simply uninstall the driver (via the Device Manager). This might make the device unusable, but there might also be other default device drivers that will take over in their absence. (You can pretty quickly figure this out depending on whether the device still works or not after you uninstall the driver. If it doesn't work anymore, you can always re-install the driver to make it work again). You might lose some functionality using default drivers, but it might be a pretty minor loss, especially in comparison to bad stuttering. Note that Windows Update may try to force the previous non-default driver back onto your computer; if so, see this workaround: http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...os-owners-lounge.793376/page-47#post-10344748
      • Keep looking out for new driver updates from the manufacturer; a future driver version may get rid of the stutter. @SirGadden reported that an ELAN driver update (which he received through Windows Update) resolved his stuttering issue. Note that not every device will receive driver updates through Windows Update, so you may have to hunt down new driver versions from the device manufacturer's website.
    • If the micro-stuttering is still there but is occurring less, then you've identified one device whose driver may be responsible for your stutter. Repeat steps 2-3 for other drivers that LatencyMon identifies as having a high Execution Time.
    • If the micro-stuttering hasn't changed, then you haven't identified the responsible driver. Repeat step 2-3 for other drives that LatencyMon identifies as having a high Execution Time.
    Note about the Killer Wireless Card Adapter: Killer Wireless seems to be a common culprit for several owner's micro-stuttering woes (although it's not always the cause, as @whirledpeas can attest to). Especially if LatencyMon identifies ndis.sys as having high Execution Time (although you might want to try out this tip out this regardless of what LatencyMon says) - try what @spaceray did. Disable your wireless card in the Device Manager, reboot, and plug in Ethernet. Then see if your micro-stuttering issue has been resolved. If so, you can either (1) connect to the internet via an Ethernet cable in the future and keep your wireless disabled (obviously not ideal), or (2) switch out your Killer Wireless Card for an Intel Wireless Card, like @spaceray did (and successfully resolved his issue). I personally had my reseller swap out the stock Killer Wireless Card for an Intel Wireless 8260 card when I bought my GS43VR, and I've been one of the lucky few to have hardly any micro-stuttering. If neither of the above two options sound appealing to you, you can try (3) downloading prior or different Killer driver versions, or (4) keeping your Killer drivers up to date in hopes that a future driver will eventually fix it.

    Note:
    Even if your ndis.sys driver has high DPC latency, there's no guarantee that swapping the wireless card will fix your stuttering issue, and it certainly hasn't worked for every user that's tried it, but multiple users have reported that swapping cards has worked. Thankfully Intel 8260 cards are relatively cheap ($15 USD or so), but it's still a potential solution that involves spending some money, and there's some risk it won't work. I personally think if you're having terrible stuttering issues, it's money well spent, but obviously it's up to you.


    If you tried the above steps 1-3 and they didn't work, then you may have to start throwing everything at the wall and seeing what sticks. Here are some other options:

    • Make sure all of your computer's device drivers are up to date, in hopes that an updated driver will fix the problem.
    • Try updating the BIOS; a fix might eventually come through a BIOS update
    • Try experimenting with disabling devices in your Device Manager, one by one, to see if you can identify the culprit. This obviously will take some time.
    • Alternatively (or additionally) to the last suggestion, just start uninstalling various drivers - you might eventually identify the culprit this way, too.
    • If you're up for it, you can also try rolling back to Windows 7; Windows 7 drivers may, at least for some devices, cause lower DPC Latency than Windows 10 drivers.

    *Shortcuts to possible solutions:
    With all these principles in mind, here is a list of various solutions that other users have found worked for them. This list was originally compiled by @hmscott and later supplemented by me. If steps 1-3 don't work, or if you'd rather take a scatter-shot approach, you can try simply going down this list and seeing if anything works for you.

    Lastly, you can always report this issue to MSI Support. The more people who raise it with them, the better likelihood that they can help fix this through a BIOS update or otherwise.


    I hope that all of this information is helpful. Many thanks to the many owners who have offered their insights and time trying to overcome this annoying issue; this thread is merely a summary of what has been a collective effort. I am by no means an expert, and if anything above is incorrect, please feel free to point that out. Additionally, if you have come across any other solutions, or have any other ideas about the problem or how to fix it, please do share!
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2017
  2. jjp

    jjp Notebook Enthusiast

    Reputations:
    5
    Messages:
    42
    Likes Received:
    8
    Trophy Points:
    16
    I've been running latencymon and as suggested in the original post, I'm getting the most activity within the ndis.sys

    I've ordered an intel 8260 wifi card off amazon for $26 USD, but my only question to anyone that has replaced their wifi card on the MSI GS73VR is, is it easy to detatch and reattach the antenna wires from the existing killer 1535 wifi card and place them onto the new wifi card I plan to install?
     
  3. alaskajoel

    alaskajoel Notebook Deity

    Reputations:
    843
    Messages:
    795
    Likes Received:
    548
    Trophy Points:
    106
    For what it's worth, I had this problem with a GT72S 6QE with 980m. Replacing the killer wireless card with an Intel unit fixed the problem for me.

    Also, excellent guide. I love seeing this helpful stuff on NBR
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2016
    Prototime likes this.
  4. Hussam Amhaz

    Hussam Amhaz Newbie

    Reputations:
    0
    Messages:
    2
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    5
    I have the same problem on my razer blade 1060 !!!! ( stuttering on happens on desktop background never in games! )

    it's so frustrating, i have the killer 1535 as well, i tried the preferred nvidia graphics and maximum performance it worked !!!!!! but it's not ideal as my laptop is small and i can hear the fan running a bit more faster than normal on background cause i can hear them while laptop is on idle.

    i ran latencyMon and that's what it gave me:
    Your system seems to have difficulty handling real-time audio and other tasks. You may experience drop outs, clicks or pops due to buffer underruns. One or more DPC routines that belong to a driver running in your system appear to be executing for too long. At least one detected problem appears to be network related. In case you are using a WLAN adapter, try disabling it to get better results. One problem may be related to power management, disable CPU throttling settings in Control Panel and BIOS setup. Check for BIOS updates.

    LatencyMon has been analyzing your system for 0:22:35 (h:mm:ss) on all processors.

    does that mean it's from my killer 1535 ? do i have to change it ? because i disabled it from device manager and the problem did not stop, does it mean it's not from the killer or it might still be? hopefully anyway here can help ? and thx for all the info that has been given here .
     
  5. Prototime

    Prototime Notebook Evangelist

    Reputations:
    104
    Messages:
    484
    Likes Received:
    654
    Trophy Points:
    106
    Ah, a number of non-MSI owners have complaining lately of the same issue, so it looks like this isn't unique to MSI laptops. Sorry to hear you've been affected too!

    Have you tried disabling your wireless card in Device Manager and running off ethernet? See if that helps with the stutter. If it does, then swapping our your killer 1535 for an intel wireless card will likely help (though not guaranteed)
     
  6. Hussam Amhaz

    Hussam Amhaz Newbie

    Reputations:
    0
    Messages:
    2
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    5

    i did try, i disabled my network and sound card nothing fixed it , only putting nvidia as preferred card and maximum performance worked for me, i sent a copy of latencymon results to razer support and they r working on it to see a fix hopefully they do , for me it happens only in background not inside game at all,
    and it's so weird when i update my Nvidia driver WITHOUt RESTARTING my laptop not stuttering at all !!! nothing !! until i restart laptop which make me feel it can be fixed by bios update!
     
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2016
  7. ryzeki

    ryzeki Moderator Moderator

    Reputations:
    2,596
    Messages:
    5,655
    Likes Received:
    2,486
    Trophy Points:
    331
    I experienced a moment of mouse lag when I booted up, after loading windows, but I haven't experienced it in a while now. the only different thing I have done is that I uninstalled Dragon Center, and updated my graphics drivers to the latest version. So far, I have had no issues with freezing/micro stuttering etc.
     
    Ultra Male and hmscott like this.
  8. Jtafur19

    Jtafur19 Newbie

    Reputations:
    0
    Messages:
    1
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    5
    Last week I had to send back 2 different msi vr73 laptops. They came with a crazy amount of bloatware, so both times I attempted to just to do a factory reset. Both times, the laptops froze at 9% and wouldn't budge. Support recommend a restart which sent it into a repeating boot cycle.
    After I sent the 2 laptops back, I decidedto get the msi vr43. I received it today. I manually removed the bloatware, but noticed that I was getting mouse pointerfreezes about once every 3 minutes. I'm glad that Im not so unlucky to get 3 laptops that are malfunctioning, and that other people have this issue. I love the look of the MSI laptops, and their specs for the price are great, but I find it hard to justify the cost of it with these kinds of issues. Even with the workaround. The laptops are expensive. I don't really want to replace a wireless card less than 24 hours of owningit when I could go get a fully functional Asus laptop.. am I wrong? I hate the idea of sending a third laptop back in one week, but these are issues that should be resolved before they are sold... Feedback would be appreciated
     
  9. ryzeki

    ryzeki Moderator Moderator

    Reputations:
    2,596
    Messages:
    5,655
    Likes Received:
    2,486
    Trophy Points:
    331
    Have you tried the solutions proposed here? This topic is not exclusive to MSI. These DPC issues happen to many other laptops, and the stutter problem is also present in optimus laptops from other vendors, so you might have gotten the same experience with other machines.

    Has any of the solutions actually help you address the issue?
     
  10. Sptz

    Sptz Notebook Consultant

    Reputations:
    5
    Messages:
    124
    Likes Received:
    8
    Trophy Points:
    31
    I'd like to chime in regarding the micro-stuttering/freezing, I own the GS63VR 7RF but the laptops are essentially the same. I'm a mixing engineer so DPC latency is of the utmost importance to me. I ran a couple of tests with LatencyMon (I was having a LOT of micro-stuttering) and immediately noticed NDIS.sys being the culprit, after disabling the Killer NIC adapter, guess what, DPC latency is reporting excellent values

    Here's some screens.

    First two are with wlan adaper ON. Look at the monstrosity amount of interrupts. It was spiking like this every 2-3 seconds.

    with_wlan.png
    with_wlan2.png

    Now, here's with wlan disabled. Yep.

    no_wlan.png

    I was even running on battery which is bound to have a bit more of interrupts due to speedstep and other power management features.
    I've already ordered an Intel 8620 to replace this POS nic. I've never seen anything like this. I've tried all driver versions.
     
    Prototime likes this.
Loading...

Share This Page