*HP 2510p Owners Lounge*

Discussion in 'HP Business Class Notebooks' started by master blaster, Feb 13, 2009.

  1. Jay2k1

    Jay2k1 Notebook Enthusiast

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    You need to remove two torx screws - the one near the middle rubber foot and the one at the bottom left, between the bottom left rubber foot and the pocket for business cards.
    Then you have to use a paperclip or something like that to emergency open the drive (you could also switch on the notebook, push the open button and turn off the notebook again). You pull out the slide, grab it and carefully pull out the drive. That's it.

    Oh and as for this one, why don't one of you just buy and test one ;)
     
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    INFO: Using a optical bay caddy to install a 2.5" SATA or PATA SSD/HDD
    Linked from DIY: Adding SSD or HDD Storage using an optical bay caddy

    Introduction

    The HP 2510P is shipped with a 180gram 9.5mm Matsushi*ta UJ-852S PATA optical drive using a JAE50 rear connector. It can be swapped out for a optical bay caddy containing a SATA or PATA 2.5" SSD or HDD of your choice. Eg: use a 2.5" HDD via a caddy to provide data storage and a 1.8" ZIF SDD as a primary os and applications drive to improve response and maintain battery life. The slow 1.8" ZIF HDD could be sold to the ipod crowd or used as a data dump together with a 2.5" sata SSD. Optical drive can be converted to external USB unit or hotswapped if using a 1.8" primary drive. A PATA caddy can be had for as low as US$19 shipped, then add SSD or HDD cost.

    Written and video instructions for removing the optical drive

    Torx T-8 screwdriver is needed to undo two screws. Can even be loosened with a matched flat or phillips head and a little effort. Can see how easy it is: connect to HP Media Services Libary, follow menus to select 2510P notebook, select FRU Remove/Replace, select Optical Drive.

    SATA or PATA optical bay caddies available for the 2510P

    The following 2.5" sata or pata optical drive bay configurations are valid, with or without a primary 1.8" SSD/HDD:

    9.5mm caddy Price and link Bridge chip/overhead Master/slave jumper Review
    sata-to-pataUS$13 shipped^1 / ebayMarvell 88SA8040/1WNo^2here-C
    US$42+shipping / newmodeusJmicron Jm20330/0.8WYeshere-B
    pata US$14 shipped^1 / ebaynot requiredYes - on HDDhere-A | here-C
    US$38+shipping / newmodeushere-B
    ^1 rear multibay connector plate unscrews to reveal required JAE50 connector as shown in the review
    ^2: can be hardwired as master, but not slave, as described here, shown here. Update: the slave_mod works on a "topda" ebay caddy.


    See Comparison:_ebay_versus newmodeus 9.5mm sata-to-pata and pata caddy

    Power consumption considerations to determine which 2.5" optical bay caddy to use

    Use of a 2.5" drive will reduce the battery life from it's level when using a 1.8" drive. Consider the original 0.4W/1.1W idle/active 1.8" HDD power consumption as a guide to retain similiar levels of battery life. Power consumption of recent 2.5" harddisks is here and here. There's a 0.8-1W power consumption overhead by sata-to-pata bridge chip if opting for a SATA caddy. To put this in perspective, the supplied 1.8" ZIF drive has a idle power consumption of 0.4W. A SATA caddy and an efficient 2.5" SATA drive pushes that up to 1.5W. That's a 1.1W increase at idle. If getting 5.5hrs of battery life from the 55Whr 6-cell with the ZIF drive, an average of 10W used, then using the SATA caddy and 2.5" SATA drive (11.1W) would decrease that by 30 mins even before considering the higher read/write power requirements of the 2.5" SATA drive. The PATA caddy (without a bridge chip) and a PATA 2.5" HDD's general lower power requirements means a PATA caddy is a more battery friendly solution.

    • PATA caddy to conserve battery life

      A PATA caddy with a 2.5" IDE HDD like the 160GB Samsung HM160HC or 320GB WD3200BEVE, or even transplanting the 1.8" ZIF drive with a ZIF to 2.5" IDE adapter, all being the more battery efficient way of improving and extending the 2510P's storage capabilities. Only con of using 2.5" IDE drives rather than 2.5" SATA drives is the higher cost per GB and the limitations of 160GB-per-platter density: slower performance, smaller maximum capacity, and not suited for transplant into a newer SATA equipped notebook in the future.

      [*]SATA caddy, noting 0.8W-1W consumption of bridge chip

      The good value option. A 250-gb-per-platter SATA hdd in the caddy, improves speed and extends capacity and storage can be used in future notebook acquisitions. Another good one being a 2.5" SATA SSD like OCZ Vertex then using the 1.8" ZIF HDD to provide additional storage.

      An tiny on/off switch disconnecting power to the bridge chip and the HDD could be used to save the constant 0.8W-1W. Useful if a primary 1.8" SSD/HDD is sufficient for on battery use. Can do that now by pulling out the caddy but that means extra wear on the JAE50 connector. Idea presented to newmodeus for consideration in their next revision.

    Suggested setup for hotswappable optical bay and optical bay caddy + HDD

    1.8" ZIF SSD as primary os and apps drive to give fast os and app response. Then one of the following in the hotswappable optical bay caddy depending on required capacity, performance and battery life. Battery life subject to whether you access the caddy's drive whilst running on battery if set to do spindown standby mode, except for (3) which adds a constant 0.8W-1W sata-to-pata bridge chip overhead.

    1/ supplied 1.8" ZIF HDD using 1.8-to-2.5" adapter: lowest speed, capacity, power consumption and cost [PATA]
    2/ 2.5" PATA HDD for capacity up to 320GB: faster HDD performance, balanced power consumption [PATA]
    3/ 2.5" SATA HDD for capacity up to 500GB: fastest HDD performance, worst power consumption [SATA-to-PATA]

    The master/slave configurations supporting hotswapping being:

    2.5" optical bay^1|...1.8"....|.optical drive.|.Detail
    .......Slave..........|.Master...|.Slave..........|pro: Easiest to setup. Best for hotswap configuration.
    ........................|.............|..................|con: Write performance workaround. How to set ebay caddy as slave?.
    .......Master........|.Slave^2.|external USB.|pro: Best performance when using a fast 2.5” drive
    ........................|.............|..................|con: can’t hotswap in optical drive, so go external USB
    .......Master........|Master^3|.Slave..........|pro: Workaround for best 2.5” performance and hotswap
    ........................|.............|..................|con: 1.8” connected/disconnected when 2.5" removed/installed.
    .......Master........|.Slave.....|.Master^4....|con: not possible -> need a hacked ODD firmware
    ^1: set by jumpers on the SATA caddy or IDE drive for the PATA caddy
    ^2: set by wedging a wire between pin 1 and 2 as explained here. Source: Toshiba Storage Europe.
    ^3: 1.8" ZIF socket physically connected only when 2.5" drive swapped out for optical drive.
    ^4: Jumpering pin 45-47 (CSEL to GND) to force master on the optical drive has been unsuccessful. Bios taking ages to boot. Google says a special Toshiba UJ-852s firmware can set it as master, though Toshiba won't supply it. Requires further investigation. Google tells me other UJ-8xxx work as master with a jumpered pin47 and 45. Perhaps pin47 needs to be isolated from the systemboard to get it working?


    Cloning the drives

    With the 2.5" HDD in the caddy, I cloned the 80GB drives using Linux dd/ntfsclone commands. Windows users may opt for Acronis Easy Migrate 15-day Trial instead. Then set the drive paths in C:\boot.ini, so have an option for Master-XP or Slave-XP. Booted off the 2.5", then using XP's partition Manager as a guide to drive mapping, changed the C: path in registry HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\MountedDevices to point to the 2.5" drive. This setup means I can bootup from either 2.5" or 1.8" drive, the latter providing hotswap optical drive access.

    Converting optical drive to be an external USB unit

    Two inexpensive ways, all available on EBAY for < $20US, all with the ability to use either the optical drive or the optical bay caddy as external USB unit, even hotswapping between them. Very handy for imaging purposes.
    1. Use a genuine $20US HP Multibay II cradle, HP Part PA509A.
      NOTE: Multibay connector on the back means is probably a fraction longer than (2). I would consider gluing the multibay-II-to-JAE50 interface board from notebookelite's optical bay caddy into the cradle if intending on using the optical bay caddy and optical drive as hotswap units.
    2. Use an $20US external enclosure, again from notebookelite trader: USB External Slim Case For Laptop DVD DVDRW 9.5mm Drive. A cheaper option than (1) for non-US customers, probably slighty shorter too.
    A word of caution about the 9.5mm Thinkpad Ultrabay slim caddy
    [​IMG][​IMG]And/or USB-converting accessories, their rear connector is not compatible with a HP 2510P. We can see this below:

    Left: 2510p DVD unit with 9.5mm thickness and standard JAE 50 connector
    Right top: Thinkpad ultrabay slim DVD, of correct 9.5mm thickness but wrong interface connector
    Right bottom: Correct JAE 50 interface but too thick at 12.7mm
    Bios boot menu

    To confirm if indeed your caddy is slave, in
    the bios set:
    System Configuration -> Boot Options
    * Multiboot = Enable
    * Express Boot Popup Delay = 5
    Bios MenuMaster drive namingSlave drive naming
    System boot device [F9]Notebook Hard DriveOptical Disk Drive
    HDD Self TestNotebook Hard DriveNotebook Multibay
    Will present a menu on bootup giving you 5 seconds to choose which drive to boot from.

    Hotswapping the optical drive and 2.5" drive in optical bay caddy
    Setting standby idle standby timeout to improve battery life
    Versatility: using 9.5mm caddy in other 9.5mm/12.7mm optical bay systems


    Sections covered in DIY: Adding SSD or HDD storage using an optical bay caddy

    Summary Notes
    • 2510P does not observe cable-select settings. Must hard set storage as master or slave.
    • PATA caddy requires jumpers on the 2.5" IDE HDD to be set as either master or slave.
    • newmodeus SATA caddy has master/slave jumper. As slave, it is a direct drop in replacement for the optical drive.
    • Bios options "Notebook Hard Drive" and "Optical Disk Drive" requires following translation with caddy installed:
      - Notebook Hard Drive refers to the Master drive.
      - Optical Disk Drive refers to the Slave drive. Can boot from it OK, even without Master installed.
    • 1.8" Toshiba ZIF HDD can be set to slave by wedging a wire bridging pin 1 and 2 (bottom right of photo).
    • Interface read is capped to UDMA5/ATA100 speed of 83-90MB/s.
    • With a primary 1.8" SSD/HDD, XP allows hotswap of the optical drive and SATA/PATA caddy
    • 9.5mm JAE50 caddy fits and works in systems using a 12.7mm PATA optical drive
    • 3D Driveguard (accelormeter) engages on the optical bay caddy HDD as shown.
    • SATA-to-PATA bridge chip consumes 0.8W (newmodeus) of power or 1W (ebay), regardless of if HDD is spundown or active. Requested newmodeus see if this can be reduced, or if a tiny faceplate on/off switch could be added to extend battery life where running a 1.8" primary drive on battery is sufficient.
    I have no affiliation with any of traders of products highlighted above. Their product is simply used to assist 2510p owners improve their drive performance.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 7, 2015
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    ASUS EEE's FLASH_CON uses the mini pci-e size format, but has incorporated into it PATA, SATA and USB. Given that Dell Mini runcore SSD work on ASUS machines, they must also use some part of this pinout. So to use the runcore SSD for ASUS EEE machines would require an adapter from the PATA pinouts to PATA on the 2510P systemboard. Why systemboard? Well, it seems the 2510P mini pci-E we have does not have SATA/PATA on it as per this. Though this may not be accurate, as Intel Turbo Memory used in the 2510P slot is a form of PATA SSD from what I can tell.

    Here's the ASUS EEE FLASH_CON pinout (asus pci-e connector) as used by runcore mini pci-E SSD
     
  4. Jay2k1

    Jay2k1 Notebook Enthusiast

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    I'd rather look for some spare space to put this thing:

    [​IMG]

    Would be the easiest of all methods. It is 74 x 51,3mm in size.
     
  5. Jay2k1

    Jay2k1 Notebook Enthusiast

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    On that board I can't see a controller chip at all, that's why I assumed if it works in one direction, it should work in the other one as well...

    And getting a longer ZIF cable from somewhere shouldn't be that much of a problem.

    I just thought, now what happens if you find out where these sata lines (pins) on the mainboard are. And manage to hack the bios of course. Are you really gonna solder on the board? I mean, I know my solder skills, they're ok but far from being able to solder SMD, for example. And soldering on a multi-layer PCB is probably the worst thing I could do. So either we or I find a way to work with one or more adapters, or we have to stick to using either MTRON mobi SSDs or other 1.8" ZIF SSDs - I've seen only one so far, apart from the runcore SSDs that are currently on backorder and caused a lot of trouble with their connector being twisted - and that would be the samsung SSD that is also used in those 2510p's that shipped with SSD from HP. Only that these ones are hardly available, only a few on ebay, and cost between 600 and 1000 bucks.

    AFAIR, the runcores were slower as the MTRONs, like ~70MB/s read and 35-40MB/s write or something. I'm very curious how fast my MTRON mobi will be, I hope I'll get 90/90.
     
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    User Retired 2 Notebook Nobel Laureate NBR Reviewer

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    You can see, with so much hassle to get the non-ideal PATA (with bridge to accomodate SATA) to work, finding and soldering 4 lines to get SATA would be a walk in the park. Consider this.

    INFO: Performance of 1.8" 5400rpm HDD (SATA), provided by 2530P owner
    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    32.2Mb/s versus 19.7Mb/s for the 2510p.. 63% increase in performance. An increase, but relatively expensive for the gain.. I'd be looking 1.8" SSD or 2nd drive caddy with 2.5" SSD/HDD myself.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 8, 2015
  7. Jay2k1

    Jay2k1 Notebook Enthusiast

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    Well, one of the main reasons for me to buy the 2510p when it came to deciding on what model of the available subnotebooks was that it was one of the very few with built-in optical drive, so I'd do hell and remove it ;)
     
  8. Jay2k1

    Jay2k1 Notebook Enthusiast

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    ah, ok, then I misunderstood, I thought you wanted to leave the 1.8" hdd in there for storage and use a 2.5" ssd in the caddy as system disk - then you'd have a problem switching it if you need the dvd drive. :)
     
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    A DIY microsata to ZIF adapter could work for the 2510P.

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    The supplied ZIF HDD is 54x71x8mm in size! If using the "Samsung Slim SSD", it is 3.48mm thick, which provides plenty of clearance of 4.52mm to work with. The X18-M is 5mm thick, opening up 3mm of clearance.

    Size of SATA to 3.5" IDE adapter: 2.13 in x 1.81 (size as given for 2-port version)
    Size of 3.5" IDE to ZIF adapter: 3.54 in x 1.30
    Total: 3.54 in x 3.112
    Size (shrunk) estimate: 2.13 in x 2.33 (removal of 2x~0.39 IDE connectors + more)

    More details, including source of parts, in new thread titled For those with slow 1.8" PATA drives wanting SATA...
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 6, 2015
  10. Jay2k1

    Jay2k1 Notebook Enthusiast

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    Update:

    the PCMCIA 32-bit Cardbus 2xSATA adapter card arrived today (the one you showed me on ebay).

    The results are better than I thought: The device uses the VIA VT6421 controller chip which also supports RAID 0 and 1. I just installed the normal driver and attached 3 SATA disks to it, one after the other and benched them using HD Tune:

    1. a Western Digital 300GB 3.5" Disk (WD3000JS)
    [​IMG]


    2. a Seagate 250GB 3.5" Disk (ST3250824AS)
    [​IMG]


    3. an MTRON Mobi 16GB 2.5" SSD (MSD-SATA3525)
    [​IMG]


    This was quite a bit surprising to me. I benched the MTRON on my High-End computer too, attached directly to the mainboard, and there it has something between 92 and 98 MB/s, so either the PCMCIA card or the Ricoh controller in the 2510p is limiting to these ~70MB/s. But still, impressive.

    I guess it's your turn, nando ;)

    EDIT: Well, if everything on earth would be easy...
    Of course you can't make the 2510p boot from the PCMCIA card. I guess you need to, for example, install a bootloader like linux GRUB on a small USB stick and add the operating system on the attached SATA device to the grub.conf or menu.lst - this way you should be able to boot from it.
     
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