How quiet can the MSI GT75 8RG can it get at base frequencies?

Discussion in 'MSI' started by UncleMysh, May 6, 2018.

  1. UncleMysh

    UncleMysh Notebook Geek

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    Since, I do not wish to hijack the original thread, I am taking over the discussion here from:
    http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...eview-by-phoenix.816385/page-11#post-10723992

    @heliada @Phoenix

    Firstly, I would like to address the comment on whether it is possible to have a laptop that runs quite well without being too loud.

    My current computer is about 6 years old, but I am keeping it up-to-date with tweaks and upgrades (such as @Mr. Fox AW PSU mod for the GTX 980M). Trying to resist the effects of aging as much as I can, I am regularly cleaning my laptop's ventilation and repasting the CPU with IC diamond (maybe there are better ones these days, but that's what I have been using for 6 years now).

    The performance I can achieve is not remarkable or ground breaking, but feels comfortable. CPU is slightly overclocked @3.2GHz and the GTX 980M is running at stock clocks. Under full load the CPU and GPU remain within ~65degC, while noise levels feel fairly quiet (~30-35dB). I should say here, that I am also using a laptop cooler stand, which positions my laptop nearly vertically to enhance natural convection.

    However, it's still a 6 year old laptop that has been heavily used, its CPU (i7-3940XM) is notorious for it poor thermal performance (@55W TDP) and lastly Dellwares are not exactly famous for their cooling system and thermal performance.

    When I compare my AW laptop with how the MSI Titan GT75 8RG looks on paper, I have reasons to believe that the MSI should outperform my system not only in terms of raw performance, but also quietness (under certain conditions, please read below).

    1. After 6 years the CPU technology has advanced. Intel now claims a 14nm lithography vs. 22nm of my 3rd generation CPU, which means that CPU can now run at higher clocks with better cooling efficiency. Indeed the i9-8950HK has a 45W TDP CPU comparing to the 55W TDP of the i7-3940XM.
    2. The MSI cooling system is far superior to the AW, because of 1. unified heatsink system that links CPU and GPU, 2. more heat pipes and 3. better quality fans with more blades.
    3. The MSI may be using a 180W TDP GPU (GTX 1080M), while my system a 95W TDP GPU (GTX 980M), but NVIDIA claimed that the heat efficiency has been significantly improved going down from 28nm lithography to 16nm. In addition in most sites I read that the thermal performance of the cards is more or less equivalent even if the GTX 1080M consumes double power.
    4. NVIDIA can now use a "Whisper" mode, which basically down-clocks the GPU to maintain reasonable performance and reduce noise, if needed. This means that the GTX 1080M should definitely be superior to the GTX 980M, when downclocked in terms of thermal performance and noise.
    5. The heat conduction and efficiency should be significantly improved with HDevolution quality paste ( IC diamond has about 5W/mK while the Thermal Grizzly Conductonaut is about 12 W/mK), thermal pads for VRAM and extra ventilation at the bottom of the case.
    6. Lastly @Falkentyne 's IA AC/DC loadline settings have improved CPU temperature according to Phoenix and HIDevolution.

    For these reasons, I think that the MSI GT75 at base frequencies should deliver quieter performance than my current system and probably any of the other systems in the market right now. @Phoenix has already partly reconfirmed my thoughts. He mentioned already that he cannot even hear the system under normal load.

    Regarding the comment that is a waste to underclock a laptop, and why don't I consider an ultra/stealth/slim/thin/book/whatever that can actually be quiter. Maybe it can be more silent, but probably with toasted GPUs and CPUs and far inferior performance. The MSI cooling system feels superior than any of all the aforementioned junk (ups, sorry). Underclocking is a reversible option, you can always go back to stock or over clock speeds when you have a tough job to finish and you don't need to be in the room.

    The noise levels that @Phoenix reported (50dB) are at full load with heavily overclocked CPU at ~4.9GHz and the GTX 1080M running at all at turbo frequency. Therefore, I still do not think that Phoenix's tests were representative (at least not for what I was looking for), as his system has been running at full throttle, while I was asking for noise levels and benchmarking at base frequencies (eg. 3GHz for the CPU, which Intel report's as the base frequency for the i9: https://ark.intel.com/products/134903/Intel-Core-i9-8950HK-Processor-12M-Cache-up-to-4_60-GHz).

    I am sorry for the long post, I hope it clarifies my position and explains better what I was asking.

    Many thanks.
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2018
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  2. skman

    skman Notebook Geek

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    Not sure how helpful this will be but in this below review, noise levels are shown at idle, load, and Max cooler boost around the 6:10 mark.
    Im still waiting on my unit so don't have any IRL experience just yet

     
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  3. Jzyftw

    Jzyftw Notebook Geek

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    Keep in mind you can manually adjust the fan curve on MSI laptops, so the amount of noise really depends on you (and temperatures of course).

    Just to give you an example, the fans on my GT73 do not spin at all when CPU & GPU temperatures are +- <50°C (web browsing, working, watching movies, ...).
    I set the curve to 50% maximum (+- 3000 RPM) under load. With CPU & GPU overclocked and undervolted, temperatures sit at 70°C average, with scarce peaks to 73°C on the GPU.
    Therefore in games, noise level is 41 - 42 dB right above the keyboard, 39 dB at ear level. I do play without headset most of the time, exception made of "competitive" games like CS:GO. It is the quietest gaming laptop I've owned so far.

    However I must point out that my unit (like @Phoenix's) is repasted with Grizzly Conductonaut (liquid metal) on both CPU & GPU, so that helps a lot.

    At stock frequencies, the 8950HK should be on par with an O/C 6820HK in terms of power consumption, so I expect this even thicker GT75 to be even quieter than my GT73
     
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  4. UncleMysh

    UncleMysh Notebook Geek

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    This is a very helpful post. Thank you for sharing your noise levels with me.

    I do not have any experience with liquid metal. Can it cope with traveling? I will expose the laptop to some limited traveling 1-2 per year. I would also like to position it nearly vertically for better heat flow.

    Is Grizzly OK with that? If yes, how often do you have to repaste? Is repasting with metal liquid difficult?
     
  5. heliada

    heliada Notebook Evangelist

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    Yeah you can manually adjust the fan curve if you keep the dragon center app. People like @Falkentyne would tell you not to keep it ^^
    Anyway if you look at identical setup of gt73vr & gt75vr with 7820HK and gtx 1080:
    https://www.notebookcheck.net/MSI-GT73VR-7RF-Titan-Pro-Notebook-Review.189710.0.html#toc-emissions
    https://www.notebookcheck.net/MSI-G...080-Laptop-Review.240904.0.html#toc-emissions
    You will notice that not only was the gt75vr a little louder, it also ran hotter. It might be due to the specific laptop, maybe the factory paste went wrong... but there is a chance it will NOT be quieter than the gt73vr.
    Considering the gt75 will generate more heat than the gt75vr and has the same chassis, you can just wonder about the rest. Thus any comparison to gt73vr is questionable.
    If you game in area that needs to be quiet, you can obviously underclock temporarily. The heat and noise should both go down a lot. But eh... I still don't like the idea of doing that often.
    As for liquid metal, I don't think vertical position is a good thing at all. And if you apply it wrong (trust me you will if you need to ask about it), there is a good chance it will kill something (worst case the motherboard). Also not sure where you come from, but in my country it voids warranty especially if you do it yourself (damn EU) - since it leaves physical marks on the chip/hs and is dangerous to work with. If any of it comes into contact with anything else than the chip/hs, even just a little, it can totally fry/shortcircuit the laptop.
    That said, if you do in fact learn how to apply it correctly, I would still not store it in vertical position and be extremely careful when traveling. It is liquid after all and any extra tiny drop could work its way to the outside and fry the thing. Yeah, it may be unlikely but any time it's vertical it increases the chances greatly imo.
    Question is: do you really need the i9? Maybe an i7 would be a better choice? And yes they sell gt75 with i7-8850H or i7-8750H too. Both chips have 6 cores/12 threads, the 8750H will run at 3.9GHz on all cores (no overclock possible), the 8850H will run at over 4GHz on all cores and can be overclocked by up to +400MHz. I take it that it could be underclocked too? Either way both should output less heat and might even run acceptably with normal paste. Sad thing is there are still so few reviews out there.
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2018
  6. UncleMysh

    UncleMysh Notebook Geek

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    @heliada
    Thanks for the reply. You opened my eyes in regard to liquid cooling.

    Sure, I do not necessarily need the i9. i7s are all valid options. What setup would you recommend? Isn't the i7 a badly binned i9?

    Hmmm... the whole liquid cooling thing is questionable. By positioning nearly verically the laptop with exhausts facing up I can save about 10degC. Then liquid cooling will cancel this effect, as it has to be positioned horizontally and on top, I may have issues when I travel. Let alone it makes it hard to repaste and maintain.

    May have to go with IC diamond then.
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2018
  7. Jzyftw

    Jzyftw Notebook Geek

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    I traveled a LOT last year with my GT73VR (by car and plane), I've never had a problem ! Repasting is a bit more difficult than with other TIMs, you have to be very patient and careful while applying it. I used electrical tape around the die to prevent any damage. I repasted it after 1 year, but didn't have to (I did it along with changing the thermal pads).

    Unless you put too much, it doesn't wander in the laptop. However if you plan to use your laptop vertically, I guess it could leak over time. So Grizzly Kryonaut may be a better alternative in your case.


    You can also control the fans using Silent Option, thus avoiding this Dragon Center crapware ;)

    The GT75 is basically a thicker GT73 with nearly identical heatsink (and maybe bigger fans ? I don't know). So it should be marginally better than the GT73 regarding cooling ! Maybe @Falkentyne and @Phoenix can confirm or refute this ?

    I agree with you regarding vertical position & liquid metal, it is probably a bad idea !
     
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  8. Falkentyne

    Falkentyne Notebook Prophet

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    GT75 heatsink is only very marginally better than GT75VR / GT73VR. Heat transfer is almost identical because the heatpipes and heat plate on the CPU is exactly the same (it's the EXACT SAME heatpipe plate used in GT72S/GT72VR/GT75VR etc!), but it has to cool 6 cores instead of 4 so temps will be hotter. Only difference is the fans are slightly more effective because one heatpipe has been extended to a second, small radiator. But what's the point of having more efficient fans if the ability for heat to transfer from the core to the heatplate is completely unchanged???
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2018
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  9. Phoenix

    Phoenix Super Tweaker

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    ditto [​IMG]
     
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  10. heliada

    heliada Notebook Evangelist

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    @UncleMysh well I think that the i9 is actually more like an overclockable i7... there literally does not seem to be the need to call it anything else as it still only has 6 cores and 12 threads. The only difference is that it is clocked a bit higher and it's unlocked. The rest just seems like marketing and making it seem more awesome than it is. If you do not really need to overclock beyond 4.4GHz or so, the i7-8850H seems like a great choice. And for gaming with the 1080 I do not see a scenario where you would ever need anything more. I think even rendering videos or streaming will go just well with it - it still has 12 threads to spread all the load and is plenty fast. Yeah sure, i9 is slightly faster and can be overclocked a little bit more but tbh, I don't think it will make any difference in normal use.
    The only good thing I see with the i9 version is the fact that it uses double power bricks, thus might be less power limited. But it will be more difficult to transport it, last time I checked planes had weight limits on what you can take on board and the extra power brick is not gonna make it any easier to fit in those limits. Depending on air line it's like 7-10kg and just the laptop itself is about 4.6kg - I think the power brick each must be like another kg. Then you might want to take some other stuff, the huge bag for it will be heavy too... Good luck man, even single power adapter will be a pain.
    And well anyway, if you don't want that much noise I don't really see you overclock the i9 anyway so why buy an unlocked chip if you probably don't need one?

    As for having the laptop vertically: I don't think it's needed at all. Buy sth like the notepal u3+ from coolermaster, remove the fans on the bottom side, make sure there is at least like 30cm behind and next to the sides free and you are good to go. That worked wonders on my gt72vr, plenty breathing space. Plus - the gt75 has a great mechanical keyboard, how the hell would you use it if the laptop is vertically?
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2018
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