Help with MSI 16L13 (Eurocom Tornado F5)

Discussion in 'MSI' started by Izen, Apr 2, 2018.

  1. Falkentyne

    Falkentyne Notebook Virtuoso

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    @Izen please use imgur to host pictures. Photobucket and imageshack are useless now. Everyone uses IMGUR now.
     
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  2. Mr. Fox

    Mr. Fox Undefiled BGA-Hating Elitist

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    If what Eurocom gave you is a stock vBIOS, yes it is worth a shot. Perhaps @Falkentyne has his stock MSI 1070 vBIOS saved and you could try that one as well.
     
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  3. Falkentyne

    Falkentyne Notebook Virtuoso

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    @Izen i'm really dumb today. I really should have read the original post you made.

    Do you have MSI Afterburner installed?
    If you do, set an average core overclock let's say +150 (most cards are ok with this), then a +500 mhz RAM overclock.
    (haven't seen a samsung RAM card that can't do this).

    then, press CONTROL F and bring up the frequency curve.
    Now, click the 0.950v voltage point on the graph after setting up your overclock. Then press "L"
    Then press apply.

    Now play your games and tell me if you get any crashes.
     
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  4. Izen

    Izen Notebook Guru

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    It's from when I joined the site years ago, I will have to edit my signature. It was a signature photo for Alienware M17x r1 owners. I will fix it.

    Unfortently no, it is a vBios image that ended up making things worse but claimed it would solve my issues. I was thinking maybe a bad flash.

    I was using ASUS GPU tweek to downclock my card. I will definitely give that a try and get back to you!!
     
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  5. Falkentyne

    Falkentyne Notebook Virtuoso

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    @Izen No need to use Asus GPU tweak. MSI Afterburner does everything you need anyway.
    Ok try what I suggested, test multiple games and post back. To save time, post back as soon as you get one crash.
     
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  6. Izen

    Izen Notebook Guru

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    So I didn't do it with the overclock as I just wanted that extra level of precaution. But my god. I locked it at the 950 like you said to, and it played every game I have tossed at it without crashing!

    Should I try with the overclock? Is there a way to set this to load each time windows starts?
     
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  7. Mr. Fox

    Mr. Fox Undefiled BGA-Hating Elitist

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    Great news! Might as well try it with the overclock.

    Yes. See the yellow circle? Activate "Startup" and it will do that for you.
    upload_2018-4-3_21-45-34.png
    Just be aware that if the GPU is overclocked too far and unstable at the time of shutdown, it will re-apply the same unstable overclock at Windows logon. Better to save it to a profile. Then you can select it from the tray icon whenever you want it applied.
    upload_2018-4-3_21-50-0.png
     
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  8. Izen

    Izen Notebook Guru

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    Perfect, Thanks so much, everyone.

    But can I be explained by chance why this works? Is this a fault in the vBios for voltage control? Or is the voltage set by vBios set too high? Or is my card just unable to handle the voltage used by the GPU boost when it clocks it self up?

    EDIT: I will do the overclock tomorrow and report what happens, time flies when playing games. Need to be up for work in 5 hours lol.
     
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  9. Mr. Fox

    Mr. Fox Undefiled BGA-Hating Elitist

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    Pretty much. Each GPU is different (same for CPUs) so it may be that your 1070 is one that doesn't play nice with the vBIOS defaults. Likewise, most Gen 6, 7 and 8 Intel CPUs receive way too much stock voltage and need to be undervolted to run correctly with stock clocks or a modest overclock. I think they do that because chip bin quality is random, inconsistent and sometimes not good enough to run stable with lower voltage. Rather than fixing the underlying bin quality problem by culling crappy chips to keep them out of circulation, they manage things based on their lowest common denominators and let everyone else deal with the fallout of high temps from unnecessarily high voltage. Unfortunately, handling things based on the lowest common denominator seems to be status quo for the industry now. It applies to other things as well. I guess that affords them the freedom to sell their junk with no accountability for the samples of garbage that fared poorly in the silicon lottery.
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2018
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  10. Falkentyne

    Falkentyne Notebook Virtuoso

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    The first versions of the MSI GTX 1070 MXM video card (Revision 1.0) had flawed hardware (what was flawed? No one knows) that caused the card to crash when it hit the 1.013v voltage point. The card would not deliver the proper voltage, and either the driver or the entire laptop would crash. It was a crash far worse than just overclocking the card too far type of crash (on fully working cards). It's a crash that could even make the laptop fail to reboot properly or to boot into VGA mode or something (crashes like if you overclocked the RAM too far--really bad crashes). This was a very serious and eventually well known issue with users with GT62VR's and GT72VR's with 6820HK and 6700HQ processors, and some GT73VR with 6820HK processors. There were forum threads created here for that, which took awhile to grab up steam, and there were some unnecessary flame wars (and I'll admit I was one of the flamers at first), but eventually proof was posted that this was a direct hardware flaw. There was discussion about this on the official MSI forums also.

    MSI refused to admit there was a flaw, and instead did band-aid fixes by supplying a "8A" vbios that prevented the card from using any voltage higher than 0.881v. Boost clocks still worked, but the card would not go higher than 0.881v. This was ok for some users with 115W cards, because in newer games and benchmarks, there was no difference in performance between the original bios on a fully working (no bugged) card, and the 8A vbios, because the power limit flag would stop the card from using the higher voltage and clocks anyway. But in older games, where the card could boost up to 1.0v and higher and 1900+ mhz (games where you always saw the crashes on bad cards), there was a noticeable performance drop with the .8A vbios.

    Most Kaby Lake laptops (laptops made in 2017) came with the fixed revision cards. I was unaware that 16L13 users received the broken cards. I thought the form factor of the 16L13 1070 was different than the GT73VR 1070, but in fact it may be the GT62VR 1070 that has a different form factor than the 73VR 1070. But I don't know. Regardless, the form factor is irrelevant, if the same defective circuitry exists on both card layouts.

    There was another vbios which disabled ALL boost clocks completely, a 'failsafe' vbios which MSI put on some people's laptops, even when they asked them NOT to.

    This entire debacle, combined with the trade-in "Scam" debacle, caused MANY, MANY People to hate MSI. BGA vs LGA wars notwithstanding.

    Eventually, late last year, MSI started actually replacing the 1.0 buggy cards with 1.2 revision cards, but ONLY if people actually asked them (well, demanded) that they did it. Since by now the cat was out of the bag and MSI knew full well that people knew the 1.0 cards were just defective.

    That's basically it.

    What I suggest is contact Tom Ho (tomh AT MSI DOT COM) and request VERY firmly and plainly if you can get a RMA replacement purchase of a GTX 1070 revision 1.2 (i don't know about revision 1.1 or if that is the highest revision for the barebones) card for the MSI 16L13. You need to explain VERY plainly that you have the defective 1.0 card with the broken 1.013v crash voltage step and you want a fixed card shipped from MSI, and see if there is a way to get a cross shipment under warranty, without having to send in the laptop. If Tom cannot help you, then you need to CALL MSI on the phone and ask for an escalated supervisor request for an RMA upgrade for a defective part. See if you can work out a way to get the new card shipped to you without having to send the entire laptop back, and then you ship the old card back, to avoid any downtime. This is assuming you know how to re-paste with thermal paste and repad with Arctic 1mm thermal pads.

    If you are uncomfortable with that, then you would have to ship the laptop back to MSI, and God knows how long that will take. I've seen MSI completely butcher people's laptops, so I would fight VERY VERY hard to get the card itself shipped to you and set up some sort of cross shipment. It might be VERY hard but good luck.

    I've attached the "8a" Vbios here. I DO NOT know if this will work on the 16L13. This is a GSYNC vBios, and I do not know if you have a gsync card or if this bios is whitelisted for your laptop. This vbios works for GT62VR's, GT72VR's and GT73VR's with 1070's and gsync, but not for non gsync boards. I don't think a "0.881v" vbios exists for non gsync models.

    If this doesn't work, you have to lock the voltage like i suggested.
    But I think you should just get that card RMA *UPGRADED* at MSI's cost (minus shippping). But you're going to have to be VERY, VERY stern and pushy. They can do it if they want to. But they usually do NOT want to. It's too much trouble for them because it breaks their "system" and makes them have to admit that "they messed up."
     

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    Last edited: Apr 4, 2018
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