Gaming on Linux - With Wendell from Level1Techs!

Discussion in 'Linux Compatibility and Software' started by hmscott, Jul 22, 2018.

  1. ratinox

    ratinox Notebook Deity

    Reputations:
    92
    Messages:
    986
    Likes Received:
    472
    Trophy Points:
    76
    I'm cynical. I once asked RMS straight out which was the better product: a GPL program that doesn't work or a proprietary program that does work. His answer: the GPL program because it has a license that respects the users' rights, and the fact that the program doesn't work is irrelevant. FLOSS will never "get there" until idologues like RMS who hold licenses above functionality and usability die out.

    The Linux kernel itself has done well in large part because Linus Torvalds isn't an ideologue. The rest of the software stack? That's hit or miss.
     
    Aroc and jclausius like this.
  2. jclausius

    jclausius Notebook Virtuoso

    Reputations:
    1,187
    Messages:
    2,609
    Likes Received:
    1,138
    Trophy Points:
    181
    A large number of open projects end up abandoned over time; where commercial software with a large base may continue well past its prime.

    The real right answer is to use the right tool for the job using cost/benefit analysis, regardless of origin of any software package. ;)
     
    Aroc likes this.
  3. ratinox

    ratinox Notebook Deity

    Reputations:
    92
    Messages:
    986
    Likes Received:
    472
    Trophy Points:
    76
    Depends on whether or not a given project develops a self-sustaining community or ends up abandoned. Most small projects eventually end up in the abandoned category.

    Except... the entire point of GNU is derivative. The goal of the core projects, Hurd and the GNU OS, is to create a replacement for UNIX. Not something new. Not something better. Something entirely derivative of UNIX. Because RMS doesn't like the System V and BSD licenses.

    Except when it isn't.
     
    jclausius likes this.
  4. jclausius

    jclausius Notebook Virtuoso

    Reputations:
    1,187
    Messages:
    2,609
    Likes Received:
    1,138
    Trophy Points:
    181
    Agreed. And, if you notice, I didn't say anything contrary to what you've written here. Assuming a cost/benefit analysis has been done, I will always suggest to someone use the best tool that fills your needs. PERIOD. If it's a proprietary or commercial product great. If it is an open source one great. Shutting down one solution or another based on dogmatic reasons on either side limits one's choices.

    Mixed bag. There has been some good and bad open source solutions in these areas. For example, for Windows based development - I still find value in the paid versions of Visual Studio and other commercial based developer tools. However, I do need to disclose a bias for the commercial solutions for professional reasons. ;)
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2018
  5. ratinox

    ratinox Notebook Deity

    Reputations:
    92
    Messages:
    986
    Likes Received:
    472
    Trophy Points:
    76
    No, he didn't have to. He chose to. And what RMS chose was the path of the moral crusade. Contrast this with Eric S. Raymond (ESR) and Linus Torvalds who chose paths of practical advocacy instead of religious fanaticism.

    I could go on but I'd just be rehashing what others have already more eloquently described.
     
    jclausius likes this.
  6. Aroc

    Aroc Notebook Consultant

    Reputations:
    122
    Messages:
    191
    Likes Received:
    166
    Trophy Points:
    56

    Agreed. That's the way I see most current Linux distributions. In the 1990s Linux was largely a free substitute for a 1980s Sun UNIX Workstation. Today they've largely cloned a 1990s Sun UNIX Workstation. In that goal they have succeed. I don't know how useful that is for a lot of people at home. Outside of MacOS, UNIX typically doesn't get single user mode right the way DOS and IBM PC Compatibles did.

    Microsoft really has the unenviable job of getting their O/S to run on top of so many different combinations of PC hardware compared with say Apple or Linux. Not to mention all of the backwards compatibility with DOS and win32. I don't envy how they do it. Although they have help from all of the hardware markers. Whereas we still struggle with hardware on Linux in 2018. That is unless you get a Thinkpad that is similar to what Linux kernel developers use, then the out of the box HW experience is often pretty good.
     
    jclausius likes this.
  7. ratinox

    ratinox Notebook Deity

    Reputations:
    92
    Messages:
    986
    Likes Received:
    472
    Trophy Points:
    76
    With the caveat that the first thing I did with a 1980's Sun UNIX Workstation was to build and install the GNU toolchain. The second thing I did with a 1980's Sun UNIX Workstation was to build and install the rest of the GNU userspace. And the *third* thing I did with a 1980's Sun UNIX Workstation was not to install anything GNU but rather to build and install MIT X11.

    Did I mention I'm a career UNIX sysadmin? :)

    Apple didn't get single-user UNIX right. That was NeXT. Apple acquired NeXT to get NeXTStep because they were going nowhere with Copland. Steve Jobs was part of the package. And then starting with 10.7 they wrecked it by a) turning it into iPad and b) abandoning quality control in favor of trying to keep macOS and iOS releases concurrent. macOS 10.13 is so buggy awful and incomplete that when it comes time to replace my MacBook Pro at work (probably next summer) I'm getting something with Windows 10. Because Windows 10 makes a better UNIX desktop than Macintosh. That's how poorly I think of Macintosh *and* the state of Linux desktops.
     
    Anthony Accioly and Mr. Fox like this.
  8. hmscott

    hmscott Notebook Nobel Laureate

    Reputations:
    4,882
    Messages:
    17,034
    Likes Received:
    20,932
    Trophy Points:
    931
    Guys, can we please stop the OT discussion of OS's, and please get back to the topic of Linux Gaming, the topic of the thread.

    I deleted my posts that contributed to this OT discussion, and updated the OP:

    Guys, please stay on topic and lets stay away from OT open source / OS discussions, this is a Linux gaming thread. - Thank you.
     
  9. Aroc

    Aroc Notebook Consultant

    Reputations:
    122
    Messages:
    191
    Likes Received:
    166
    Trophy Points:
    56
    @hmscott
    I've been pretty lucky with Steam games under Linux. OpenGL and Vulkan have just worked for me with my Eurocom Tornado F5 (MSI 16L13) or my desktop PC. For me it was just as smooth an experience as Wendell portrays in his videos in this thread. I was expecting to have to fiddle, hack, or deal with broken sound, broken controller settings, X11, etc. A little over a year into it, and its been as smooth as a console (PS3, PS4) or Windows PC**. Color me impressed!

    + I first tried SteamOS over a year ago just to see what the baseline experience with a smooth setup was like. The OS was Debian based but realize this is for building set top boxes with a console-like UI. You login to the O/S with your steam account rather than a local account like a normal distro (out of the box). You can run desktop programs but it's a weird way to run a Linux desktop distro unless you're only interested in games because you login to the desktop by default with Steam accounts. All proprietary drivers (GPU and WiFi) were installed out of the box. I didn't have a Steam controller but I had the Xbox One wired controller, which ran OK. Though I switched back to keyboard+mouse after a month and didn't look back. Ran this for 2 months. No issues.

    + I tried Debian testing next. Either Pantheon or Xfce DE. Ran this for over a year. No issues with Steam or Steam games. No once. Even old DOS games in DOSbox work well.

    + I tried Pop!_OS 18.04 for about a month. It's based on Ubuntu LTS, installs proprietary drivers (GPU and WiFi) out of the box along with a customized Gnome 3 theme pack (by System76). Same Linux gaming experience for me as Debian except it's the first time I've ran Gnome in a long time. Last time I used Gnome was when Gnome 2 walked the earth. (ignoring SteamOS).

    + I tried Ubuntu 18.04 LTS next, just to compare with Debian testing and SteamOS. On this for 1 week. I'm using the proprietary drivers (GPU and WiFi). Valve officially supports SteamOS and Ubuntu so I wanted to see what this is like. I'm running Unity DE just to see what it's like (somehow I avoided Unity until now). Gaming on Ubuntu has been fall-off-the-chair simple but to be honest I've mostly been running Hitman so far. I just bought Shadowrun.

    + A couple comments on Vulkan. Comparing OpenGL with Vulkan on Hitman 2016 under Linux. Vulkan has a couple glitches or bugs were the water in rivers (Paris & Bangkok) don't render but it does not affect game play. It's not like water doesn't render period as the water on beaches and in fountains is displayed. It's just the rivers. Vulkan maybe gets a few more FPS but visually OpenGL might be a tiny amount prettier. Overall performance is on par with Windows 10 Pro. I'm impressed!

    Where to go next? I'd like to try Arch and Fedora next but so far I've been spoiled by the fall-of-the-chair ease of use it has been so far running the Steam client and Steam games have been on Debian and Debian-derived O/Ss, lol! I've used Arch and Fedora on the desktop before have a lot of experience with those but I wanted to make my first venture into Linux gaming (since Doom and Quake) as easy as possible with supported platforms just so I'd have a baseline to start from. For Fedora I'll look into negativo17 repos nvidia and steam or rpmfusion for nvidia. I've been using Linux since 1996 so take that into account as YMMV.


    **Actually -- if we're keeping score -- and why shouldn't we since this is a gaming thread -- I've had more NVIDIA problems under Windows 8.1 Pro or 10 Pro (vs Debian Linux) with FPS drops in half (60 to 30) with Hitman, requiring 2 times I think where I had to temporarily drop down a release with NVIDIA drivers or NVIDIA control panel or GFE under Windows. So with my limited testing, gaming under Linux has been less of a hassle than Windows. Ha!
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2018 at 11:31 AM
    Mr. Fox and hmscott like this.
  10. hmscott

    hmscott Notebook Nobel Laureate

    Reputations:
    4,882
    Messages:
    17,034
    Likes Received:
    20,932
    Trophy Points:
    931
    Yes!, thanks for that detailed info, glad it works out well for you :)
     
    Aroc likes this.
Loading...

Share This Page