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FSB downclock mod on the intel GL960 and GL40 --- useful info for PLL Modders

Discussion in 'Hardware Components and Aftermarket Upgrades' started by naton, Aug 21, 2011.

  1. naton

    naton Notebook Virtuoso

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    Introduction:
    This thread explains a BSEL Mod that will allow a latest generation of Core 2 Duo processor such as the T9900 to work in a laptop equipped with an old chipset such as the Intel GL960. The mod forces the latest generation of Core 2 Duo to operate with an FSB of 800MHz (4 x 200MHz) instead of its native 1066MHz (4 x 266MHz). Applying the PLL mod as explained by moral hazard here after applying the BSEL Mod should allow re-increasing the FSB back to 1066MHz.

    How is this useful:
    1- The CPU will not lock at its lowest multiplier (i.e. x6).
    2- This would help turn a latest generation Core 2 Duo CPU into a ULV. For instance, my T9900 was running at 2.29GHz after mod instead of the stock 3.06GHz. The T9900 was stable with a Vcore of 1.1v and the maximum temperature under orthos was between 55c and 60c.
    3- Run the latest generation of Core 2 Duo at native speed or close to their native speed with a chipset that is not designed to support them.

    Chipset concerned by the mod:
    - Intel GL960, GM965, PM965, or GL40.
    - non Intel chipsets that support FSB 800MHz.

    CPU concerned by the mod:
    - P7350, P7370, P7450, P7550, P7570.
    - P4800, P8600, P8700, P8800.
    - P9500, P9600, P9700.
    - T9400, T9600, T9700, T9800, T9900.
    - Q9000, Q9100.
    - X9100, QX9300.

    Requirements:
    1- One of the above chipsets.
    2- One of the above CPUs.
    3- A BIOS that supports the latest generation of Core 2 Duo processors.

    Testing the BIOS:
    The cheapest way I know of to test the BIOS is to install a Pentium Dual Core T4*00 series or a Core 2 Duo T6*00 CPU in your laptop. The T4200 is cheap and can be bought from ebay for about £15. A BIOS that supports the above CPUs will not make your laptop freeze or refuse to boot into Windows. Thus, if your laptop freezes with the T4200 this means that your BIOS doesn't have the necessary code to detect and manage the latest generation of Core 2 Duo.

    Origin of this thread:
    nando4 contacted me regarding a reply I received a while ago from one of the NBR members. I don't remember who it was from so if you are this person PM me and I'll credit you. Without going into detail this member pointed out to the fact that a CPU will not lock at multiplier x6 if the BSEL Mod is applied to decrease the FSB on a laptop with an Intel chipset. You can read more about the BSEL Mod here. This means that a Core Duo or Core 2 Duo won't lock at multiplier x6 if the FSB is decreased from 800MHz -> 667MHz, 800MHz -> 533MHz, or 667MHz -> 533MHz. With an Intel chipset, the CPU will lock at multiplier x6 only when the BSEL Mod is applied to increase the FSB.

    nando4 thinks lowering the FSB or forcing an FSB of 800MHz is useful as this would help operating the latest Core 2 Duo at their native or near their native speed with the help of the PLL Modon laptops with older chipsets. He suggested that this could be very helpful for the owners of the HDX9000 for instance. The above mod + the PLL mod might enable them to install the X9100, Q9000, Q9100 and QX9300 processors in their laptops.

    The mod from FSB 1066MHz (4 x 266) to 800MHz (4 x 200):

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    List of laptops that have been successfully modded:
    Acer Aspire 4315: Chipset Intel GL960 - modded by naton with a T9900, FSB from 1066 -> 800MHz.
    Packard Bell Easy Note bg45-u-300: Chipset Intel GM965 - modded by rannyfash with a P7350, FSB from 1066 -> 800MHz.
    Aspire Aspire 5720g: Chipset Intel GM965 - modded by niffcreature with a P7350, FSB from 1066 -> 800MHz.
    Dell XPS M1530: Chipset Intel PM965 - Modded by niffcreature with a P7350, FSB 1066 -> 800MHz.
    HP HDX 9000 Dragon: Chipset Intel PM965 - Modded by no-tech with an X9100, FSB from 1066 -> 800MHz, followed by overclock to 4.2GHz with ThrottleStop. You can read about it here.
    Asus M50Sa: Chipset Intel PM965 - Modded by kaza with a P7350, FSB 1066 -> 800MHz.
    Asus M50Sa: Chipset Intel PM965 - Modded by kaza with a X9100, FSB 1066 -> 800MHz, then overclocked to 3.5GHz.
    Acer Aspire 5920G: Chipset Intel PM965 - Modded by triturbo with a X9100, FSB 1066 -> 800MHz, then overclocked to 3.6GHz.
    Dell Latitude D830: Chipset Intel PM965 - Modded by trinsic nz with a X9100, FSB 1066 -> 800MHz, then overclocked to 3GHz.
    Compaq CQ61-421SA: Chipset Intel GL40 - Modded by radtw78 with a P8700, FSB 1066 -> 800MHz.
    CSony Vaio SZ7: Chipset Intel PM965 - Modded by treffmeister with a P8700, FSB 1066 -> 800MHz.
    Acer Aspire 5920G: Chipset Intel PM965 - Modded by ergoon with a X9100, FSB 1066, FSB 1066 -> 800MHz, then overclocked to 3.2GHz.
    Toshiba Satellite L305: Chipset Intel GL40 - Modded by Formula with a T9550 and E8135, FSB 1066 -> 800MHz.

    List of laptops that failed to mod:
    Toshiba Equium L40: tested by naton with a T4200. The laptop froze at the BIOS splash screen. This indicates that the BIOS doesn't support the latest generation of Core 2 Duo.
     
  2. User Retired 2

    User Retired 2 Notebook Nobel Laureate NBR Reviewer

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    Great news! Can you confirm the CPU wasn't locked to x6 mode and if it is, can you see if Throttlestop can be used to adjust it? Your CPU-Z output shows it running at x6 only. We'd want the T9900 running at 200*11.5=2.3Ghz as a start for further investigation of applying PLL pinmods to get it running closer to it's native 266Mhz.

    Can you post a screenshot showing it's a T9900 running on a GL960 chipset just to wet the appetite further?
     
  3. naton

    naton Notebook Virtuoso

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    I updated the first post to explain that there was no locks. The T9900 was working normally but with an FSB of 800 instead of 1066. I can't post screenshot showing the CPU running at 2.3GHz since I've already removed the mod and put back the T7500.

    I run orthos and the temperatures were amazingly low. With Arctic MX-3 and an RMClock VID of 1.0v the max temperature was about 55c (ambient temperature close to 30c). A turned an expensive T9900 into an ULV CPU :D
     
  4. naton

    naton Notebook Virtuoso

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    I have two examples so fas showing the T9900 and the P7350 working on laptop with the Intel GL960 and the GM965 Chipsets.

    If you tried the mod, let me know whether it worked or not for you, the name, model number and the brand of your laptop and the name of its chipset. This would help build a database of successful/unsuccessful mods.
     
  5. niffcreature

    niffcreature Notebook Prophet

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    Wait a minute, so....

    If I can figure out how to do this, should I try a q9200 on pm965 with 800mhz FSB??
    :D :D

    I dunno why I even asked that. I'm going to try it today.
    Wish I had more than 1 pm965 chipset laptop...
     
  6. User Retired 2

    User Retired 2 Notebook Nobel Laureate NBR Reviewer

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    Fitting a quad to a 965PM/965GM/GL960/GL40 being the biggest performance benefit of this mod. A QX9300 with unlocked multiplier being the ultimate available. Those have been overclocked up tp 3.8Ghz (15.2Ghz aggregate).

    Also note that quad-IDA exists, so another ~266Mhz can be had across all cores on a non-extreme quad if you have a bios that can currently do dual-IDA.

    So applying this mod with a quad-core opens up a new level of performance not seen on systems like a HP HDX9000, extending their usable lifespan. Of course need to do a power budget and review the cooling system to ensure the system can handle such an upgrade.

    Second win being being able to fit a cheaper and more plentiful X9100 instead of a X9000. Both with unlocked multipliers.

    Am interested in hearing your 800Mhz downclocked Q9200 + 965PM test results.
     
  7. naton

    naton Notebook Virtuoso

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    Let us know what laptop you're modding and if the mod works for you :)
     
  8. niffcreature

    niffcreature Notebook Prophet

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    Worked with p7350 on Acer Aspire 5720g (ICL50)!
    Will post screenshots later.

    Did NOT work with q9200.
    I think there is different microcode for quads, no? I'll ask .netroller3D see if hes willing to mod it or check it out.

    It could just be that the laptop doesn't have enough power or has a BIOS lockout for extreme CPUs. The fan spun up normally when the CPU got hotter.
    I will try this on the XPS m1730 as well!
     
  9. naton

    naton Notebook Virtuoso

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    Yes for the update.

    If I had to guess I would say the Q9200 didn't work because the BIOS lacks the necessary code do detect and initialise this CPU.

    Let us know what happens with the Dell XPS m1730 :)
     
  10. TwiztidKidd

    TwiztidKidd Notebook Evangelist

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    The Intel Pxx00 series locks its lowest multiplier at 3, but whatever you see in the picture are the results on the newer chipset and DDR3 memory.

    I'm interested about your FSB : DRAM ratio when running DDR2. That's what you're trying to change, right?
     
  11. niffcreature

    niffcreature Notebook Prophet

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    What?
    You have gm45. This thread is about gl40, gl960 and pm965 based chipsets with 800mhz FSB...
     
  12. naton

    naton Notebook Virtuoso

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    If I understand correctly, what you want to do is increase the FSB in your laptop. Right?
    This wont work because:
    1- You have an Intel chipset, and Intel chipsets forces the CPU to lock in its lowest multiplier when the BSEL mod is applied to increase the FSB.
    2- We don't know if the GM45 supports anything above FSB 1066MHz (e.g. 1333MHz).

    The P9600 is a cool CPU, but with the mod you can make it even cooler :D. If you apply the mod as explained in the first post your CPU maximum speed will drop to 2GHz. That would reduce the heat dissipation and power consumption of your laptop considerably. If you undervolt after the mod (RMclock or ThrottleStop) you might end up with a fan less system like rannyfash with his P7350.
     
  13. moral hazard

    moral hazard Notebook Nobel Laureate

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    I tried a bsel mod on an SP9400 to try to get it to run at 1333MHz, fsb still ran at 1066.
     
  14. TwiztidKidd

    TwiztidKidd Notebook Evangelist

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    I believe it failed because of the RAM. The newer RAM runs cooler and doesn't take as much power as older RAM. That's the only reason people with 4Gb max RAM systems are now able to install 8Gb. When you try to BSEL MOD it you want to bring up to speed both CPU and RAM.

    Yes, I want to make it faster and noisier not slower and quiet (fanless, the GPU will start freaking out because they're on the same heatpipe).

    I'd like to keep the 1:2 FSB to DRAM ratio. The RAM apparently can do more (it says 609 Mhz) but only if the CPU would too.
    On DDR2 I think once you reach 400Mhz it's over, that'll be like top speed. So that's inconvenient for your project.
     
  15. naton

    naton Notebook Virtuoso

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    What makes you think that the RAM is stopping you from successfully going from FSB 1066 to 1333?
    What happen when you do the mod? Can you switch your laptop ON? Can it load Windows? Does it crash with a BSOD?

    There is no relationship between the amount of RAM hat can be installed in a system and the operating temperature and operating voltage of the RAM. The maximum amount of RAM that can be installed on a laptop depends on the following:
    1- The maximum amount of RAM that can be detected by the BIOS.
    2- The maximum amount of RAM that can be addressed by the chipset.
    3- The operating system (not as important as the BIOS and chipset).

    The speed of the RAM increase because it is function of the FSB too.

    Okay.

    Some BIOS are intelligent enough and would select the right multiplier so that the RAM doesn't overclock. When the BIOS is not clever, there are two methods to force it to select a different FSB/VRAM divider.

    1- Install a PC3-6400 RAM in one of the two memory slots and the PC3-8500 in the other.
    2- If you can flash your RAM, use SPDtool or ThaiphoonBurner to flash your PC3-8500 RAM and make it behave as PC3-6400 RAM.

    Either methods will force the BIOS to set an FSB/DRAM multiplier to 3:5 instead of 1:2. This would make the RAM operate at 555MHz instead of 667MHz after the BSEL mod. 555MHz is closed to your RAM native speed of 533MHz and will solve the instability issue.
     
  16. naton

    naton Notebook Virtuoso

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    I have some doubts that 1066 to 1333 will work. I think the GM45 maximum is 1066.
     
  17. TwiztidKidd

    TwiztidKidd Notebook Evangelist

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    I just noticed the thread is about dropping the FSB from 1066 to 800, I thought it was the other way around. My apologies, I will retire from this... and best of luck!
     
  18. moral hazard

    moral hazard Notebook Nobel Laureate

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    Yeah, I only tried it out of curiosity. Didn't expect it to work.
     
  19. naton

    naton Notebook Virtuoso

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    I don't think anyone would mind if you stick around since the BSEL mod ultimate goal is to boost a CPU performance. The GL40, GL960, GM965 and PM965 do not support Core 2 Duo processors that have a native FSB of 1066. Doing the BSEL mod from 1066 to 800 can help make those processors work with these chipsets. If the mod works one can up the FSB back to 1066 or close to 1066 with the PLL mod.

    Even if the BSEL mod from 1066 to 1333 works with the GM45 you'll still end up with a CPU locked at multiplier x6. What I'm trying to say is that this mod is not the best for you since you want to overclock. Did you try to increase your FSB with a software like SetFSB?
     
  20. niffcreature

    niffcreature Notebook Prophet

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    I have FSB overclocked pm45 to 1333mhz before, but I think that was just because of the PLL.

    Something of interest I found was that I could overclock an 800mhz FSB CPU to 1066mhz on pm45 with setFSB. Even if your PLL is not supported, you could potentially just record the bytes in the registers for normal operation and then use an 800mhz FSB CPU and overclock it to normal FSB on pm45.

    The t6*00 series is good for this. My t6600 would run at 2.9ghz with no voltmods.
     

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