Ford to end US car sales besides Mustang

Discussion in 'Motorized Vehicles' started by Mitlov, Apr 27, 2018.

  1. Jarhead

    Jarhead 恋の♡アカサタナ

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    Even ignoring all that you have said, there is also the issue of ubiquity of charging stations vs the ubiquity of gas stations, as well as the issue of charge time if you do happen to find such a station.

    I can derp around on the road for a few minutes and find a dozen gas stations, then pull into one of them and be completely "charged up" in less than five minutes total.

    ----------

    That said, I'm still determined to have a full-electric car as my next machine when I go car shopping again in a few years, but I'm also well aware of the shortcomings and compromises that comes with that territory. It seems that maybe some of the evangelists for all-electric cars might not be aware of such shortcomings or are straight up arrogant about them.
     
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  2. hmscott

    hmscott Notebook Nobel Laureate

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    California might ban gas-powered cars. The whole country should.
    https://newrepublic.com/minutes/146495/california-might-ban-gas-powered-cars-whole-country-should

    "A bill introduced Wednesday in the California State Assembly would require all new vehicles sold in 2040 to be zero emissions (with the exception of commercial trucks over 10,001 pounds).

    “More cars are sold each year in California than in any other state—and more than in some countries,” Bloomberg reports. “If adopted, the measure would eliminate a huge chunk of carbon emissions as part of the state’s quest to slash greenhouse gas emissions by 80 percent from 1990 levels by 2050.”

    As of 2015, the transportation sector was responsible for 39 percent of California’s greenhouse gas emissions. And last month, for the first time in 40 years, transportation surpassed power plants as the top greenhouse gas emitter in the United States.

    That’s mainly because the electricity sector has increasingly turned away from coal in favor of natural gas; transportation emissions have been relatively flat since 2000. “Cars are becoming more efficient under aggressive pollution rules passed under President Barack Obama,” Bloomberg reported, “but that’s so far been offset by an ever-rising American appetite for SUVs, crossovers and pickup trucks.”

    A countrywide ban on gas vehicles, then, would drastically reduce America’s greenhouse gas emissions. It’s not a far-fetched idea. Norway, the Netherlands, France, the United Kingdom, India, and China all plan to phase out vehicles fully powered by fossil fuels.

    But the Trump administration is tacking in the other direction. In August, the Environmental Protection Agency and the Transportation Department began the process of rolling back fuel-efficiency standards that were approved under President Barack Obama and set to take effect in 2022. “Many analysts believe that rolling back fuel standards could jeopardize the near term future for electric vehicles,” NPR reported.

    The silver lining here: In passing their tax-cut bill, Republicans decided not to kill the electric vehicle tax credit after all."
     
  3. hmscott

    hmscott Notebook Nobel Laureate

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    California Is Getting off Gas and Diesel Sooner Than You Think
    California just voted to pour hundreds of millions of dollars into charging equipment for electric cars, trucks, and buses in the largest single investment in charging infrastructure in the United States.
    By Adrian Martinez | May 31, 2018
    https://earthjustice.org/blog/2018-may/california-is-electrifying-everything-that-moves

    "California already boasts the second-largest electric car market in the world after China—and it’s about to mushroom. The state is investing hundreds of millions of dollars into not only cars, but also into the next wave of electric vehicles: buses, trucks, forklifts, and all the other vehicles that make up our public transit and freight systems.

    But once we electrify everything that moves, how are we going to charge it?

    Today, California is taking the lead on that too.

    The federal government isn’t working on a national solution for charging the country’s electric vehicles, which means that it’s up to each state to take a hard look at its grid and figure out an electric vehicle charging plan for its turf. Three years ago, California got ahead of the game and directed its major utilities to plan for the missing piece of the puzzle and figure out how to charge the coming tsunami of electric cars, buses, and trucks.

    Today, after years of drafting this blueprint, the California Public Utilities Commission (CPUC) approved the largest single investment in charging infrastructure in US history.

    The $738 million investment, combined with the $300 million in zero-emissions VW “Dieselgate” funds approved last week, means California decided to go all in with a jaw-dropping billion dollars approved for electric vehicles in this month alone.

    The new charging equipment and grid upgrade can’t come soon enough. The car industry expects to introduce 127 new battery-electric models in the next five years. Analysts predict that with falling battery costs, electric cars will be cheaper than gas-powered cars as soon as 2025. That means that a state already embracing electric vehicles will likely see demand spike.

    Meanwhile, California’s public transportation sector has an eye on the future, and is already making major commitments to transition to electric bus fleets. This month, SF Muni committed to a fully electric bus fleet by 2035 and began an electric bus pilot program, following in LA’s footsteps. California’s VW settlement funds are going to zero emissions electric port and public transit vehicles.

    Where the Electric Revolution is Unfolding
    This investment is one of several that will be made over the next few years, and this one will be spent quickly—all $738 million dollars will be invested in the next five years to jumpstart the state’s electric future. Here’s a quick breakdown of what California communities are getting:
    • Southern California Edison, which serves population-heavy Southern California and Los Angeles, is investing most of its $342 million into the trucks and port equipment that are major culprits in the region’s air quality crisis.
    • Pacific Gas & Electric, whose sprawling territory covers the Bay Area and most of Northern and Central California, is focusing its $269 million investment in charging infrastructure for buses and trucks. In addition, it has been approved to spend $22 million for fast charging for passenger vehicles.
    • San Diego Gas & Electric is focusing first on charging cars, and will be investing $142 million into electric car charging equipment for San Diego residents.
    Environmental Justice Breaks Through the Noise of the Gas Lobby
    In California, the biggest breakthroughs in climate progress often happen when we focus on improving air quality, and today’s vote is no different. A large portion of the funding—$611 million across the state—is going towards the electrification of “medium and heavy-duty” vehicles, including trucks, forklifts and buses. These larger vehicles are some of the biggest contributors to the exceptionally high air pollution levels, both in the Los Angeles region and in the San Joaquin Valley.

    Earthjustice represented key partners East Yard Communities for Environmental Justice and the Center for Community Action and Environmental Justice, who pushed for the air quality relief they need in communities like East LA and the Inland Valley, where truck fumes push asthma rates up precipitously. Together, these organizations pushed for more funding for the communities suffering from the worst air and more support for school districts and transit agencies as they made the leap to electric buses.

    They faced formidable opponents. The oil and natural gas industry, long accustomed to dominating the market, has lobbied hard to prevent zero emissions investments and to keep California addicted to fossil fuels. The natural gas industry has often marketed itself as a “bridge fuel” to better air and climate solutions, but in recent years they’ve fought to stall progress in California. They make the work of environmental justice advocates even harder by sowing misinformation (like a new “certified zero” campaign from the methane industry) and even seeking to slow down utility investments in vital charging equipment.

    For Taylor Thomas with East Yard Communities for Environmental Justice, the work was personal. She testified at the PUC about her research, and then opened up about what it’s like to breathe heavily polluted air. Taylor grew up in Long Beach, which has some of the most polluted air in the country under the shadow of the massive freight industry. “No, my community will not settle for cleaner combustion technologies,” she stated in her testimony submitted in this proceeding. “Our residents are clear about what they want to see and understand that we can invest in zero emission technologies now.”

    Erika Flores from the Center for Community Action and Environmental Justice also provided expert testimony, stating that “investing in infrastructure to support zero emission technologies is an opportunity to demonstrate that our community and communities like ours are equal citizens and deserve to be protected from air pollution just as everyone else does.”

    It’s been a long road to get here. But the extensive work done by CPUC Commissioner Carla Peterman and her staff, in addition to the Administrative Law Judges and the commission staff at large, as they toiled for close to three years to plan California’s investor owned utilities’ path to electrifying everything that moves in the state should serve as a model for forging a new path for utilities. The hundreds of millions of dollars to electrify our ports, rail yards, warehouses, and bus depots marks a critical moment in the fight for clean air. California is on the right side of history for our children, our lungs, and our communities—and the future is electric.

    ABOUT THIS SERIES
    We don’t have to imagine a zero-emissions future. We can live it. Our new Right to Zeroblog series will track the Right to Zero campaign to transform our energy grid and transportation for a zero-emissions California. While the Trump administration fails to lead on climate and health issues in Washington, D.C., Californians are pushing for a zero-emissions state now. Follow Right to Zero to see how Earthjustice is fighting for zero-emissions technologies at our ports, power plants, freeways and bus routes."
     
  4. saturnotaku

    saturnotaku Notebook Prophet

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    This video illustrates the "EV desert" issue very well.



    A pure EV will never work for us because we regularly visit family who live in rural Illinois - the nearest charging station is 50 miles away. I personally hope that we'll figure out a way to cheaply and safely manage hydrogen, but I don't see that happening any time in the near- or mid-term.
     
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  5. Jarhead

    Jarhead 恋の♡アカサタナ

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    Yay 8-But Guy! :)

    But yeah, current electric cars are good enough for the majority of trips in and near your local area before they have to fall back on gas (or die). But my point would be that it is difficult, with the current infrastructure, to travel non-trivial distances in an all-electric currently and in the near future. If lucky, you’re route will actually have enough electric stations but your trip time will be extended due to charging times (even in quick charge stations, assuming that’s ever standardized), and at worse you’ll be sitting around for hours at each recharge when tying to use a standard 120V cable.



    I also have family out in the middle of nowhere, several hundred miles from me. My plan, should I buy an all-electric, is to simply rent an ICE car when I want to visit them.
     
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  6. saturnotaku

    saturnotaku Notebook Prophet

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    One nice thing about owning or leasing a BMW i3 is that you can borrow a conventionally powered vehicle up to 14 calendar days per year for those kinds of trips. Unfortunately, participation is at the individual dealer's discretion and not all are on board with it.
     
  7. Jarhead

    Jarhead 恋の♡アカサタナ

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    True, that’s a positive. The negative is that you’re driving a BMW i3 :)

    (Imo it looks awful)
     
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  8. hmscott

    hmscott Notebook Nobel Laureate

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    There are a number of parallel developments for Solid State Batteries, some more credible than others, which will change everything about EV range and charging expectations, and it looks like it may be by 2020 - or sooner, at least for smaller applications, with car sized solutions to follow.

    https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=solid+state+battery+henrik+fisker

    There will be a rush to buy when Solid State Batteries or some other quick to charge longer range solution comes to fruition, over and above the millions already waiting for delivery of their new favorite moniker EV vehicles, even with current power limitations. :)

    Solid State Batteries Just Around the Corner?
    selmateacher7 - Daniel Berry
    Published on Jun 4, 2018
    I just received a small sample Solid State Battery and it works!
    So I made a quick video going over a few of the aspects of this new technology that will certainly be powering our devices and cars in the near future.
    A Solid State battery is good for around 1,200 cycles. Most lithium-ion batteries have a rated lifetime of somewhere between 500 and 1,500 charge cycles.


    Depending on who you listen to SSB's can be made to cycle many more thousands of times longer than lithium-ion, but the real question is, will existing EV cars provide upgrades to new battery technology when they arrive?
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2018
  9. saturnotaku

    saturnotaku Notebook Prophet

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    This is where automotive subscription services will come into play. It will be the future of vehicle ownership. Pay a given amount every month for access to certain models. Insurance and maintenance are included and you can change cars as often as every 30 days. Pilot programs for Cadillac and Volvo have proven very successful and are being expanded. BMW is planning to jump onboard as well.

    I like the idea of purchasing “credits” that you can spread out however you like. A commuter car or EV for weekday use would cost less than a pickup or sports car on the weekend, etc.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  10. Jarhead

    Jarhead 恋の♡アカサタナ

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    Eh, personally I’d rather actually own a car. If I want to “rent” a car, I’d use a taxi or rental car.
     
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