For those with slow 1.8" PATA drives wanting SATA...

Discussion in 'Hardware Components and Aftermarket Upgrades' started by User Retired 2, Feb 24, 2009.

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  1. KrypteX

    KrypteX Notebook Consultant

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  2. KrypteX

    KrypteX Notebook Consultant

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    I've just installed a Samsung PM810 mSATA SSD 64 GB (the mSATA equivalent of Samsung SSD 470), FW AXM18D1Q + mSATA to ZIF adapter into my HP 2510p.

    The SATA to PATA bridge of the adapter is JM20330 and is set as master. I left the optical drive inside as slave.

    The drive works flawlessly. I can confirm that TRIM works correctly under Win7 or via Anvil's Manual TRIM in WinXP. Also, Secure Erase through the SATA to PATA bridge works well (used PartedMagic).

    Sequential reads/writes are 78/65 MB/s.
    4K reads/writes are 12/15 MB/s.
    Access times 0.2-0.3 ms.

    Everything is snappy, many times faster than the mechanical ZIF drive (Toshiba 80 GB).
    Even the HDD LED is working properly.

    Anyone trying the same, be warned: not any mSATA drives will work with the mSATA to ZIF adapter.
    Some of the working, tested variants with the JMicron JM20330 bridge:
    Samsung PM810 mSATA
    Samsung PM800 1.8
    Kingston V+180 1.8" (actually a Toshiba HG3).
     
  3. bcsan

    bcsan Notebook Enthusiast

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    I've also just installed a 128 GB Crucial M4 using the zif pata to msata adapter on my lenovo u110. I tried to install Win7 but I was having a lot of stutters. Instead I'm using Vista instead which doesn't exhibit any the problems with Win7. I will have to rely on the gc function of the M4. I wonder if TRIM was causing the stutters in Win7. So far secure erase works in Parted. I'm very pleased with the performance increase compared to the old 1.8" HDD. Thanks for everyone researching into this issue.
     
  4. KrypteX

    KrypteX Notebook Consultant

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    I also have serious freezing in Win 7 (but not if I turn off TRIM and neither in Win XP) if I use an OCZ Nocti mSATA drive with firmware 2.25. Firmware 2.15 works with TRIM correctly.
    It seems to me that it depends on how the mSATA drive sends TRIM.

    Until now, I found on the internet that TRIM transmitting issues appear with:
    Intel X18-M 1.8"
    Intel 320 1.8"
    OCZ Nocti firmware 2.25 (2.15 works fine)
    Crucial M4 (yours)

    Can I ask you the firmware version you're running ? Crucial just released firmware 04MH for your Crucial M4 mSATA. You might try with that.
     
  5. starfish7707

    starfish7707 Notebook Enthusiast

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    Dear Bcscan and KrypteX,
    can you let me know whether you could solve the problems with new/old firmware? I also consider buying a Crucial M4 or OCZ Nocti SSD as they are the cheapest to get in 120GB. I also would need the mSata to ZIF Adapter for my old Dell D430.

    I will (for compatibility reaons of old hardware) run Windows XP but it would be nice if I could run any OS (so probably in the future W7).

    What program best to use for TRIM in Windows XP? Will the drives do it all alone or will I need some special software (such as Anvil's TRIM or the IBM trim (would that one work on a Crucial/OCZ drive?)

    thanks alot!
    Peter
     
  6. starfish7707

    starfish7707 Notebook Enthusiast

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    It is sad that this thread seems dead. Does nobody use anymore old ultranotebooks like the Dell D420, D430 or HP 2510?

    Well, call me sentimental, I still use my D430 with WinXP and I'm happy with it. Probably somebody else is thinking about breathing some new life into those small handy ultranotebooks and this post can be of some help. If so, please leave a note here so I know it was not for nothing.

    To start, everybody reading this thread knows how annoying the slow 1,8" harddrives of this ultranotebook generation are and the choice of 1,8"SSDs is very limited - even more so if you are stuck with an IDE/ZIF interface. And if you think WinXP is still ok for you or you have to use it due to old hardware, you are facing the problem of lacking TRIM support in WinXP for your SSD (but read on, actually I don't think anymore that it is really SO necessary). Furthermore for example the D420/D430 really have a heat problem. You could wonder why to stick to those notebooks but for me the D430 just does what I want and and I didn't find any modern ultranotebook of comparable size WITH docking station which would justify the extra price tag on it.

    Short version to greatly improve HDD speed with TRIM under WinXP:
    - buy a ZIF to mSATA adapter (they all come AFAIK with the Jmicron 20330 bridge). they are easily available at ebay or taobao if you have access to it.
    - buy a mSATA SSD (I bought the intel 310 80gb SSDMAEMC080G2C1 mSATA SSD because it is supported by the TRIM function of the Intel SSD Toolbox, also under WinXP)
    - align ALL partitions, not only the first one (read up on that!),
    - disable defrag and prefetch (Intel SSD toolbox can do this for you)
    - prevent WinXP to go from UDMA to PIO Mode (read this post!)

    Heat problem:
    - D430: buy 2 copper shims of 15x15x1mm and buy some good thermal grease
    - D420: buy 1 copper shim of 15x15x1mm (GPU) and one copper shim 20x20x1mm (CPU)
    - remove the thermal pads and put the copper shims there instead

    ----
    Result after 2 months:
    - hibernate every day, standby, docking, undocking, etc works absolutely FLAWLESS with the Dell D430.
    - Battery time stayed the same
    - crystal info diskmark (without any big tweaking, just did the test now to give a rough number):
    2013-03-15_intel_ssd.jpg

    Heat problem:
    - about 10% lower temperatures: in idle I don't have 68°C but roughly 60 to 62 and in continuous 100% CPU use I have 75-78°C instead of 85°C.

    ----
    The slow HDD issue
    After many failed attempts with native PATA SSD (eastwho 720) or SSDs with buildin SATA to PATA bridge (Runcore RCP-IV-Z1864-C) I though I give my D430 another last try before I'm really fed up and buy another notebook. I bought an ZIF to mSATA adapter (with the Jmicro 20330 bridge) and the Intel 310 80GB mSATA SSD (SSDMAEMC080G2C1). Intel basically is the only option you have if you want TRIM under WinXP. While also samsung has a TRIM function in their magician software, this function doesn't support their mSATA SSDs (according to the Samsung support, so I guess that's it then). And an email to o-o software made clear their TRIM support of their Defrag software might not work (at all or not well) on an IDE interface with a ZIF to SATA adapter. And there are also those other software pieces like wiper.exe or FreeSpace cleaner and they never worked with the other SSDs (they ran but I did never experience any improvement and more often than not afterwards something went wrong). Besides, secure erasing is in any case the worst you can do to a SSD.

    That's it? Not quite. After the first days of enthousiasm I was stuck with exactly the same problem I was experiencing before with the other SSDs I tried out. As in the past I had suddenly extremely slow SSDs (HDD light always on ...) after the SSD got somehow close to full (I never installed the OS fresh but always copied it over to the SSD which made the OS partition already quite full).

    But: this problem was actually NOT related to write amplification (as I always thought and why I was so eager to make sure I have TRIM support even in WinXP) but this problem was simply because WinXP switched to lower UDMA modes and eventually to PIO Mode when it experiences CRC erros on the IDE interface. Stupid, eh! I problably would have been happy with my first SSD if I had know that 3 years ago - it was most likely NEVER the SSD that the SSD became suddenly so extremely slow.

    So probably you can rely on GC and don't need TRIM - although it is quite unsure then GC would kick in and I don't think it is really smart to leave your notebook on for hours hoping that GC will do it's work. So I think it is still good to have TRIM and the Intel SSD is not too bad.

    anyway, to prevent WinXP to switch down to lower UMDA modes and/or PIO Mode do a google search with the appropriate keywords. There are registry settings which you have to set (first read the whole post, then act):
    Windows Registry Editor Version 5.00

    [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\ControlSet001\Control\Class\{4D36E96A-E325-11CE-BFC1-08002BE10318}]
    "Class"="hdc"
    @="IDE ATA/ATAPI controllers"
    "Icon"="-9"
    "Installer32"="SysSetup.Dll,HdcClassInstaller"
    "TroubleShooter-0"="hcp://help/tshoot/tsdrive.htm"

    [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\ControlSet001\Control\Class\{4D36E96A-E325-11CE-BFC1-08002BE10318}\0000]
    "MasterOnMask"=dword:00000080
    "MasterOnConfigOffset"=dword:00000041
    "SlaveOnMask"=dword:00000080
    "SlaveOnConfigOffset"=dword:00000043
    "InfPath"="oem0.inf"
    "InfSection"="pciide_Inst"
    "ProviderName"="Intel"
    "DriverDateData"=hex:00,c0,45,fe,48,08,c7,01
    "DriverDate"="11-15-2006"
    "DriverVersion"="8.2.0.1011"
    "MatchingDeviceId"="pci\\ven_8086&dev_27df"
    "DriverDesc"="Intel(R) 82801G (ICH7 Family) Ultra ATA Storage Controllers - 27DF"

    [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\ControlSet001\Control\Class\{4D36E96A-E325-11CE-BFC1-08002BE10318}\0001]
    "EnumPropPages32"="storprop.dll,IdePropPageProvider"
    "InfPath"="mshdc.inf"
    "InfSection"="atapi_Inst_primary"
    "ProviderName"="Microsoft"
    "DriverDateData"=hex:00,80,62,c5,c0,01,c1,01
    "DriverDate"="7-1-2001"
    "DriverVersion"="5.1.2600.5512"
    "MatchingDeviceId"="primary_ide_channel"
    "DriverDesc"="Primary IDE Channel"
    "MasterDeviceType"=dword:00000001
    "SlaveDeviceType"=dword:00000000
    "SlaveDeviceDetectionTimeout"=dword:00000001
    "MasterDeviceTimingMode"=dword:ffffffff
    "MasterDeviceTimingModeAllowed"=dword:ffffffff
    "SlaveDeviceTimingMode"=dword:ffffffff
    "ResetErrorCountersOnSuccess"=dword:00000001
    "UserMasterDeviceTimingModeAllowed"=dword:ffffffff

    [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\ControlSet001\Control\Class\{4D36E96A-E325-11CE-BFC1-08002BE10318}\0002]
    "EnumPropPages32"="storprop.dll,IdePropPageProvider"
    "InfPath"="mshdc.inf"
    "InfSection"="atapi_Inst_secondary"
    "ProviderName"="Microsoft"
    "DriverDateData"=hex:00,80,62,c5,c0,01,c1,01
    "DriverDate"="7-1-2001"
    "DriverVersion"="5.1.2600.5512"
    "MatchingDeviceId"="secondary_ide_channel"
    "DriverDesc"="Secondary IDE Channel"

    [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\ControlSet001\Control\Class\{4D36E96A-E325-11CE-BFC1-08002BE10318}\0003]
    "InfPath"="oem70.inf"
    "InfSection"="R5C822_Inst"
    "ProviderName"="Ricoh Company"
    "DriverDateData"=hex:00,80,e6,de,95,fe,c9,01
    "DriverDate"="7-7-2009"
    "DriverVersion"="6.3.2.28"
    "MatchingDeviceId"="pci\\ven_1180&dev_0822"
    "DriverDesc"="Ricoh SD Host Controller"

    [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\ControlSet001\Control\Class\{4D36E96A-E325-11CE-BFC1-08002BE10318}\0004]
    "EnumPropPages32"="storprop.dll,IdePropPageProvider"
    "InfPath"="mshdc.inf"
    "InfSection"="atapi_Inst_primary"
    "ProviderName"="Microsoft"
    "DriverDateData"=hex:00,80,62,c5,c0,01,c1,01
    "DriverDate"="7-1-2001"
    "DriverVersion"="5.1.2600.5512"
    "MatchingDeviceId"="primary_ide_channel"
    "DriverDesc"="Primary IDE Channel"
    "MasterDeviceType"=dword:00000001
    "SlaveDeviceType"=dword:00000000
    "SlaveDeviceDetectionTimeout"=dword:00000001
    "MasterDeviceTimingMode"=dword:ffffffff
    "MasterDeviceTimingModeAllowed"=dword:ffffffff
    "SlaveDeviceTimingMode"=dword:ffffffff
    "UserMasterDeviceTimingModeAllowed"=dword:ffffffff
    "ResetErrorCountersOnSuccess"=dword:00000001

    [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\ControlSet001\Control\Class\{4D36E96A-E325-11CE-BFC1-08002BE10318}\0005]
    "EnumPropPages32"="storprop.dll,IdePropPageProvider"
    "InfPath"="mshdc.inf"
    "InfSection"="atapi_Inst_secondary"
    "ProviderName"="Microsoft"
    "DriverDateData"=hex:00,80,62,c5,c0,01,c1,01
    "DriverDate"="7-1-2001"
    "DriverVersion"="5.1.2600.5512"
    "MatchingDeviceId"="secondary_ide_channel"
    "DriverDesc"="Secondary IDE Channel"

    [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\ControlSet001\Control\Class\{4D36E96A-E325-11CE-BFC1-08002BE10318}\0006]
    "EnumPropPages32"="storprop.dll,IdePropPageProvider"
    "InfPath"="mshdc.inf"
    "InfSection"="atapi_Inst_primary"
    "ProviderName"="Microsoft"
    "DriverDateData"=hex:00,80,62,c5,c0,01,c1,01
    "DriverDate"="7-1-2001"
    "DriverVersion"="5.1.2600.5512"
    "MatchingDeviceId"="primary_ide_channel"
    "DriverDesc"="Primary IDE Channel"
    "MasterDeviceType"=dword:00000001
    "SlaveDeviceType"=dword:00000000
    "SlaveDeviceDetectionTimeout"=dword:00000001
    "MasterDeviceTimingMode"=dword:00010010
    "MasterDeviceTimingModeAllowed"=dword:ffffffff
    "SlaveDeviceTimingMode"=dword:ffffffff
    "UserMasterDeviceTimingModeAllowed"=dword:ffffffff
    "ResetErrorCountersOnSuccess"=dword:00000001

    [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\ControlSet001\Control\Class\{4D36E96A-E325-11CE-BFC1-08002BE10318}\0007]
    "EnumPropPages32"="storprop.dll,IdePropPageProvider"
    "InfPath"="mshdc.inf"
    "InfSection"="atapi_Inst_secondary"
    "ProviderName"="Microsoft"
    "DriverDateData"=hex:00,80,62,c5,c0,01,c1,01
    "DriverDate"="7-1-2001"
    "DriverVersion"="5.1.2600.5512"
    "MatchingDeviceId"="secondary_ide_channel"
    "DriverDesc"="Secondary IDE Channel"

    [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\ControlSet001\Control\Class\{4D36E96A-E325-11CE-BFC1-08002BE10318}\0008]
    "EnumPropPages32"="storprop.dll,IdePropPageProvider"
    "InfPath"="mshdc.inf"
    "InfSection"="atapi_Inst_secondary"
    "ProviderName"="Microsoft"
    "DriverDateData"=hex:00,80,62,c5,c0,01,c1,01
    "DriverDate"="7-1-2001"
    "DriverVersion"="5.1.2600.5512"
    "MatchingDeviceId"="secondary_ide_channel"
    "DriverDesc"="Secondary IDE Channel"

    [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\ControlSet001\Control\Class\{4D36E96A-E325-11CE-BFC1-08002BE10318}\0009]
    "EnumPropPages32"="storprop.dll,IdePropPageProvider"
    "InfPath"="mshdc.inf"
    "InfSection"="atapi_Inst_secondary"
    "ProviderName"="Microsoft"
    "DriverDateData"=hex:00,80,62,c5,c0,01,c1,01
    "DriverDate"="7-1-2001"
    "DriverVersion"="5.1.2600.5512"
    "MatchingDeviceId"="secondary_ide_channel"
    "DriverDesc"="Secondary IDE Channel"

    Make sure you read up on the topic before putting the above into your registry. And make sure you update ALL entries, not only the first and second one (primary and secondary controller). My WinXP actually uses the 6th entry for unknown reason so when I only updated the first ones the registry changes didn't do the trick (they do it now since about 1,5 months).

    ----
    The heat issue (not really solved but improved somewhat):
    I bought very good thermal grease (Shin-etsu X23 - although I would now recommend something more fluid, the shin-etsu is really hard and difficult to spread) and bought 2 copper shims with 1mm thickness (15x15mm dimension is enough- if you have a D420 you will need one shim of 20x20 because the die of the CPU is bigger than the one in the D430). Disassemble according to the service manual from Dell, remove the thick thermal pads, clean heatsink and CPU/GPU dies and make sure thermal grease is spread evenly. I'm not sure but I don't think the quality of the thermal grease is of utmost importance, the CPU has a TDP of 10W. But just that there is something between the CPU, copper shim and heatsink. I'm not sure why I couldn't lower the temperature even more, probably because of the low quality heatsink (made from alloy)? I don't know but well, it worked out somehow and temperature never annoyed me so much as I don't mind the fan running all the time.

    Peter
     
  7. chaosengelchen

    chaosengelchen Newbie

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    Hi Peter,

    thanks for your instruction.
    And of course there are people with a Dell D430 in use - me ;)

    Do you think, that the msata zif adapter connect any msata SSD to the D430? Because, I'm not ready to buy a SSD with that price :eek:
    I'm thinking about a crucial m4 (Crucial m4 SSD 128GB (CT128M4SSD3) - Preis ab €98,99 - CHIP Online

    Please, can you take a photo from your Dell with the adapter and the msata SSD?

    I'm in cleavage if i should buy a 1,8" SSD with zif/ide or an msata with adapter :confused:
     
  8. starfish7707

    starfish7707 Notebook Enthusiast

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    kryptoX wrote something about the Crucial m4 having trim issues (with certain firmwares) in this thread earlier. theoretically all msata SSDs should work, whether trim works or standby/sleep/other issues arise has to be tested on the individual machine

    I'm still using my D430 and I'm happy with it - unfortunately about every week or so (i use my notebook every day couple for a couple of hours) the notebook freezes and in the event log I see the dreaded atapi 9 error. because I disabled the automatic downgrade (to lower DMA / pio modes) which winxp does automatically, I get the freeze I guess.

    Probably this is connected to the fact I didn't do a clean install after I installed the SSD, but I guess not. probably the cable has a problem, but probably I just have to live with it as the CRC errors also happened with a ZIF SSD and then I often made a complete new install.

    I will take a picture in the coming days. but there is nothing special to it
    as I got the same CRC atapi 9 errors up and then even with a ZIF SSD (which evades the uncertainties of a DIY construction with the mSATA to ZIF adapter which is probably of very low quality) I would go for the DIY mSATA/ZIF construction. you will save a lot of money and have much more choice when it comes to your SSD
     
  9. chaosengelchen

    chaosengelchen Newbie

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    and there are no problems with the msata/ide adapter? it's only a mechanical thing, isn't it?

    THANKS:thumbsup:
    I only want to see how it looks like with all that stuff :) and I want to know how it fits to the hdd frame resp. to the rest of the allocated space for hdd

    The really great and very resistant ZIFcable :mad: is the same low quality like the msata/zif adapter would be.
    My destination is: put in the SSD (with the adapter ;) ) and then never changing the hdd/ssd :rolleyes:
     
  10. starfish7707

    starfish7707 Notebook Enthusiast

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    here we go:
    d430_ssd.jpg

    so you see there is enough place for the mSATA/ZIF adapter. it just lies in there, I thought about fixating the adapter within the rubber caddy somehow but I don't know how ... in the end I guessed it doesn't matter so I didn't do anything

    what else did you customize/DIY on your D430? I'm really curios :)
     
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