For those with slow 1.8" PATA drives wanting SATA...

Discussion in 'Hardware Components and Aftermarket Upgrades' started by User Retired 2, Feb 24, 2009.

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  1. User Retired 2

    User Retired 2 Notebook Nobel Laureate NBR Reviewer

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    What microsata-to-ZIF adapters exist?

    Update 07-04-12 sata(LIF)-to-ZIF adapter is now available as shown making it possible to install a microSATA or mSATA SSD in a 1.8" ZIF bay.

    Update 01-16-12 Our friends over at 51bn.cn have succeeded in adapting a microSATA drive using a microsata-to-ZIF adapter to work in a ZIF-equipped HP 2710P tablet. See snippet + full links.

    Though with the prices of ZIF SSDs being lower than ever before and microSATA being phased out in favor of 7mm SATA or mSATA, I'd not recommend it. Instead consider a $90/$140 32GB/64GB Runcore ProIV (Indilinx BF + sata-to-pata) or a $75/$125 30GB/60GB SuperTalent ZT2 (EWS720) ZIF SSD instead. See http://forum.notebookreview.com/sol...orage/531052-1-8-zif-pata-ssds-available.html for links/reviews of these products.

    Update 09-17-11 Tried the polotek ZIF-to-microSATA adapter finding a microSATA SSD is wider than a ZIF drive as shown below. This means it would not fit in the 2510P cavity. If looking to use this adapter then suggest using a mSATA SSD instead which, with the adapter, could be made to fit into the ZIF drive cavity.

    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    Update 12-04-10 ebay US$15 microsata-to-ZIF as described here exists. Has been used to successfully convert a 1.8" Samsung SSD to ZIF as shown here. X18M G2/G3 is now a real possibility!!

    Update 11-11-10 A microsata-to-ZIF adapter exists. sales1@polotek.cn wrote me (click spoiler):
    RE: zif to microsata adapter

    This is the new item, no photo is available now. The sata-to-pata chip used is JMicron JM20330. The dimensions are about 60L*30W*6.0H(mm). This adapter is not suitable for use in a laptop computer for its limited space. It is just for outside usage.

    We are not the reseller but the manufacturer . The price for this unit is US$6 (FOB Hongkong, Industrial packing) MOQ 100pcs. Delivery time will be about 15 business days after receiving 30% TT wire transfer advanced payment. Balance before delivery.

    Q: Can it be made smaller for internal usage and have the Marvell sata-to-pata chip instead?

    Some of our adapters use the JM20330, they all compliant with Win7, the Marvell SATA-to-PATA chip is available also, but this adapter with JM20330 is our general product.

    The thinner and smaller adapter is possible if necessary, but i'm not sure if it can be used IN the laptop computer even so.

    I just checked with the engineer, no matter how we adjust the dimension of the adapter, the size of the HDD space must be 85*54*8 (mm) at least because the fixed 1.8" HDD/SSD size, for most universal solution.
    polotek do have a photo of their IDE to microsata adapter.

    Current 1.8" ZIF SSD and their performance

    1.8" ZIF PATA SSDs available includes some native SATA SSDs using sata-to-pata bridge: mtron, samsung and intel. SATAII is 300MB/S. Intel ICH5/6/7/8 PATA interface is UDMA-5/ATA-100 with a maximum of 100MB/s, but practically delivers 91MB/s as shown here and here
    ______________________________________________________________________________________

    We then find it desirable to make a SATA to ZIF bridge adapter to provide SATA harddisk or SSD upgrade options Users of Macbook Air, Thinkpad U110, HP Mini 1000, Dell D420/D430/X1, HP 2510P/2710P, ASUS U1E, Acer Aspire One SSD, or any other machine using the slow 1.8" PATA drives with ZIF connectors (or with a free ZIF connector) may wish this as well.

    A Dell ZIF to SATA adapter exists: 1.8" ZIF to 2.5" SATA caddy . It's a ZIF-to-SATA adapter on ebay as used in Dell D620 ATG systems to convert a ZIF drive for use on a 2.5" SATA interface. It uses a Silicon Image sata-to-pata bridge, reknown for quality products that deliver high performance. Question is, is this device bi-directional? If so, we see there's a 3.3V voltage regulator that can be bypassed if using a 1.8" SATA drive. We see too that it is a bit wider than a 1.8" drive, probably to accomodate the affixing screwholes. An adapted solution *probably* can cut the board to the width of a 1.8" ZIF. The SATA end can run individual wires directly to the 1.8" SATA SSD like shown on the right.

    Right top: Dell zif-to-sata adapter (bidirectional??)
    Right bottom: 4 SATA I/O lines plus 3.3V and GND attached to a Samsung SSD, a working setup, as found in the macbook air forum.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Otherwise
    this is too thick and long. Sony adapter exists too but can scratch that off since it's a proprietory connector on the ZIF side. Systems using ICH5M or newer I/O chipset might also be able to enable the SATA controller and tap off SATA I/O lines in the systemboard as described here.

    Otherwise, if none of these are suitable, there's the DIY option:

    DIY Option (redundant info due to Polotek's microsata-to-ZIF adapter)

    There exists a a SATA to 3.5" IDE, SATA to 2.5" IDE and SATA to 1.8" IDE bridging adapter so a combo below can make a SATA to ZIF (PATA) adapter.

    Difference in height between 1.8" SSD and HDD

    The ebay "Samsung Slim SSD" is 3.48mm tall, and a 1.8" HDD (mine is the 80GB MK8009GAH) is 8mm tall. So there is 4.52mm of clearance. The Intel X18-M is 5mm thick, providing 3mm of additional clearance. This is plenty! So this solution would be ideal to accomodate a thin SSD in place of the slow ZIF HDD.

    DIY Solution #1: Using a SATA TO 40-PIN 3.5" IDE ADAPTER
    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    1: DIY board with instructions
    2,3: the boards to combine
    3,4: 4 SATA I/O lines plus 3.3V and GND attached to a Samsung SSD, a working setup, as found in the macbook air forum. OR (right) solder onto microsata connector with solder tabs.

    *Important: check power from the ZIF to the SATA board.. the ZIF drive I have runs 3.3V, so that is what the motherboard supplies. If the bridge chip uses 3.3V as well, just run a wire across and remove all those big square voltage regulator chips. ZIF->IDE adapter pinout tells us ZIF pin 38 and 39 are 3.3V, with GND being pin 4. Hack off as much of the two boards as possible to make it low profile: LEDs, SATA connector, voltage regulators & hardwire jumpers in required position. I would glue the boards together, solder wire on the top layer IDE pins as it is already thicker due to the chips, and solder ZIF ribbon wire on the bottom layer to make it as thin as possible. That way the resultant board would have some rigidity at the interconnect point. Run some very thin insulation tape over the soldered wires to prevent shorting.

    From one of these engineered board, run the 6 wires necessary for SATA: RX+, RX-, TX+, TX-, GND, 3.3V to this microsata connector attached to your 1.8" SSD/HDD. In my case, there is no room, so the wires will attach at right angles and run over the drive to the engineered board sitting on top of the drive. Can bare the wires on readymade microSATA cable instead if you have room. Microsata pinouts are here.

    Size of 1.8" ZIF harddisk: 2.13x2.79 in

    Size of SATA to 3.5" IDE adapter: 2.13 in x 1.81 (size as given for 2-port version)
    Size of 3.5" IDE to ZIF adapter: 3.54 in x 1.30
    Total: 3.54 in x 3.112
    Size (shrunk) estimate: 2.13 in x 2.33

    Estimate assuming boards soldered together, removing IDE40 (2x~0.39), molex and trimming boards down. This is just a tad shorter than the 1.8" harddisk, with equivalent width. Here is a top view of the 3.5" IDE to ZIF adapter and SATA to IDE adapaters, so can see how much it could be shrunk, as well as the pitch involved for soldering. These would be the two boards I would use for this solution, both from era-ele.

    microsatacables on ebay has just the microsata connector or these have the a ready made cable which could have it's end bared.

    Sources of parts:

    SATA to 40PIN IDE Drive Adapter Card, choose one of:
    Serial-ATA HDD To 3.5 IDE Adapter [10097] - $6.95 : era-ele <- smallest, single-side board. Best one for low profile.
    DealExtreme: $5.33 SATA to IDE Converter Host (single port, but looks like big cap on there)
    DealExtreme: $7.24 2-Port SATA HDD to 40-Pin IDE Master/Slave with Power Adapter Cable (2X port version has chips on both sides.. too big)
    (*) www.span.com - UK Data Storage specialists - English - ATA-to-SATA Adapters - ATA-to-SATA Adapters - ATA-to-SATA Adapters, Internal Adapters, ATA to SATA internal adapter, Acard internal adapters, ATA to SATA Bridgeboard, ATA to SATA converter describes the different bridge chips available: Jmicron, Marvell, Sunplus. These do all the work converting SATA to PATA.

    40PIN IDE to ZIF (1.8"), choose one of:
    ZIF/LIF CE 1.8 HDD to ATA 3.5 IDE HDD Adapter [10113] - $5.95 : era-ele
    DealExtreme: $4.41 ZIF to 3.5-inch Bilateral IDE Hard Drive Converter

    DIY solution #2: Using a SATA TO 3.5" IDE ADAPTER and soldering ribbon cable

    <tbody
    Microsata cable would be as per solution 1. I would be soldering the ribbon cable using both sides of the bridge board, and covering the pins I don't need on alternate sides. That is the only way I could see such work could be done with home equipment by a novice. This person soldered ZIF cable onto an IDE connector, so it can be done.

    There is an even smaller board to begin with in sources below, that doesn't need to be cut, even starting with a SATA-2.5 IDE adapter (smaller 2.0mm track pitch though and has chips on both sides). This one was used as an example as it has easier to access SATA pads.
    [​IMG]
    If needing to join two ZIF ribbons, I believe the connector off the any of the cheap dealextreme ZIF adapter boards can accomodate two ribbons, and thus act as a clamp to extend the ZIF. Ref last page of this for ZIF<->IDE pinout table needed here, it has IDE44, but IDE40 as used here is the same, minus the last 4 pins. Jutting out crystal could be relocated. This would be the closest thing to the smallest ZIF->SATA adapter available.

    Sources of parts:

    DealExtreme: $4.45 SATA to IDE Hard Disk Mini Vertical Bridge Adapter Card <- pictured. discusses performance of SATA on PATA
    DealExtreme: $4.20 SATA to IDE Converter Driver <- smallest board, but appears double-sided!!

    DIY solution #3: Using a SATA TO 1.8" IDE ADAPTER

    If there is clearance, this is a plug and play solution.

    Pieces required:
    2.32x2.05x0.28" DealExtreme: $7.79 SATA to 1.8" IDE Hard Drive Adapter Card <-- too thick!
    1.30x0.98x0.16" DealExtreme: $2.30 CE ZIF to 1.8" IDE Hard Disk Drive Adapter Card

    In this case, I would solder the first board and second board together via the pins. Ie: remove the pins on the second board, align the first board up using the black plastic adapter.. and solder the pins directly on. Once that is done, it may be possible to remove some of the plastic surround around the pins on the first board.

    If there is not enough clearance then ditch the second board above. Buy this instead. Remove the CF socket, leave the pads. CUT the circuit at the CF point., align with first circuit above and solder the two together. This is tricky.. and this is where I get stuck. Ideally should have some 1.27mm pitch ribbon cable to join the two boards together.. ie: solder the ribbon on one end.. and then do it on the other. The ribbon would line up perfectly against the pads and it could even be soldered at home (if you know how!). Problem is finding the solderable 1.27mm pitch cable.

    A useful extra if using parts from solution 1 and solution 2
    2.5" IDE to 3.5" IDE
    DealExtreme: $1.63 3.5" to 2.5" HDD Converter
    http://www.tiger111hk.com/product_info.php?products_id=968 <- 3.5" IDE is at a right angle.. good if wanting to use 3.5" cable to reroute through to the SATA<->IDE bridge in another location.

    **********************************************************************
    * If anyone tries this, please post your unique creation for others to be able to replicate. ;) *
    **********************************************************************
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 7, 2015
  2. nizzy1115

    nizzy1115 Notebook Prophet

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    whats the point? its not the interface that is slow, its the drives themselves.
     
  3. User Retired 2

    User Retired 2 Notebook Nobel Laureate NBR Reviewer

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    Point is to replace say the crappy 1.8" PATA 4200rpm drive with a 1.8" SATA drive with something faster without breaking the bank.

    There are plenty of fast 1.8" SSDs.. X18-M, Samsung Slim SSD on EBAY. Without an SATA to ZIF adapter some of us are limited to PATA offerings which are expensive and far slower. The PATA interface can do 133MB/s.

    The above is provided to those who realise they have a serious bottleneck in their systems with limited scope to fix it. Now there is an avenue to fix it.
     
  4. Commander Wolf

    Commander Wolf can i haz broadwell? Super Moderator

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    Nizzy115 is saying that even if you build a SATA to PATA/ZIF host adapter, the entire system will be capped by the 133MB/s limit of the PATA portion of the system. Seeing how small many of these PATA/ZIF machines are, I'm skeptical that anyone could fit an amalgamation of all three of the aforementioned parts in the desired space. Having opened a Dell XT, I'd say that short of a humongous mod-job (like cutting into the chassis kind of mod job, which I wouldn't be inclined to do), there's room for the HDD and only the HDD.

    EDIT: Furthermore, while they aren't the fastest things on the market, there are PATA/ZIF devices out there like the 1.8" Mtron 3000/3500 drives that will be much faster than a typical 1.8" HDD without the need of extra hardware. Possibly, eventually someone will come up a PATA/ZIF device that can make full use of the 133MB/s transfer rate.
     
  5. User Retired 2

    User Retired 2 Notebook Nobel Laureate NBR Reviewer

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    I believe the three parts can be integrated to fit by those who are electrically minded.

    The problem with PATA drives is new offerings cater to a small market, so a premium is charged for them. Why pay $$$ for a small Mtron when there are faster cheaper and more abundant SATA offerings available? The bits above can be acquired for next to nothing, with only skill and creativity being the ostacle to a solution.
     
  6. Rachel

    Rachel Busy Bee

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    The Mtron is only 32GB and compared to some SSD drives it is has a quite high power cosumption level.
    The Samsung SATA SSD drives on ebay are pretty decently priced. They seem cheaper than the zif SSD 1.8 drives that you can get.
    The Sasmung zif drives only come in 32GB and 64GB and some people want more storage.
    My niece owns a P7230 and that takes a 1.8 IDE drive. I would like to get her a Micro SATA 1.8 drive because they are cheaper and you get drives that are 80GB and over.
    I have a Samsung SLC drive in my Sony TX and it is not the fastest SSD drive out there but the drive feels very fast to me and it is a massive boost over the standard 1.8 PATA drive that it came with. The computer boots up and shuts down very fast. Applications load very quickly also. For me the drive was the best combination between performance and power consumption.


    That adapter probably would be too big to fit into a lot of ultraportables.
     
  7. User Retired 2

    User Retired 2 Notebook Nobel Laureate NBR Reviewer

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    I've had a look at the space on a 2510P and believe the three parts, combined correctly, could fit in the drive space without too much of a problem. So others who may wish to do the same may try it as well.

    Oh.. and the 2510P may be cursed with a slow PCMCIA (Ricoh chip).. so potentially the 2xSATA to IDE adapter could be tapped off to provide an ESATA port. That or else USB2.0...

    In the original thread relating to a 2510P there is also an investigation of enabling the ICH8-M onboard SATA ports that may not be wired up.
     
  8. felix_w

    felix_w Notebook Enthusiast

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    &#921;t would be great if any of those companies that fabricate adapters in asia could come up with a product to help people with older IDE notebooks to fit a cheap sata ssd solution....

    Combining 2-3 items to make the converter work is fine, but an all-in-one product, with respect to drive space and tight fitting would be a relief....
     
  9. User Retired 2

    User Retired 2 Notebook Nobel Laureate NBR Reviewer

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    I absolutely agree.. but it doesn't exist as yet. The above is the best I can come with while still maintaining a low profile solution, without resorting to custom fab work and keeping it cheap. I've re-written some of the instructions as perhaps the important part of solding the two boards into one wasn't clear.

    All that is really needed is the ZIF connector <-> bridge chip <-> SATA connector. It could seriously fit on the most tiniest SMT board as the bridge chip does most of the work.
     
  10. Michel.K

    Michel.K 167WAISIQ

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    Like this one? He posted in his first post.

    [​IMG]
     
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