Fake 330w Power Adapter or just poor quality??

Discussion in 'Hardware Components and Aftermarket Upgrades' started by MKazmer, Dec 8, 2017.

  1. John Ratsey

    John Ratsey Moderately inquisitive Super Moderator

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    I wonder if the power limit is programmed into the computer and the difference you are seeing in power at the wall outlet reflects differences in conversion efficiency. eg if the computer's power limit is 180W then, for the old (Chicony) PSU 180/217 = 83% efficiency and, for the new (Delta) PSU, 180/206 = 87% efficiency (a different power limit will change these percentages). If this reasoning is correct then the Delta PSU is the better one.

    John
     
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  2. MKazmer

    MKazmer Notebook Consultant

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    Ok, I ran 3D mark with the 330w with the battery removed, windows power setting was already on high performance and it ran exactly the same. I don't believe it's a thermal issue. I haven't yet tried undervolting the CPU by -100mv. I'm running Prema's BIOS on default settings. I also tried it with stock BIOS and no overclock and surprisingly it got pretty much the same score in 3D Mark 11.

    The whole reason I upgraded to the 330w PSU was because I saw power supply caps when using the old 220w supply.

    John,
    Your reasoning makes sense. I did the numbers to see how much power I should actually be pulling and considering the CPU is only pulling 65w while the GPU is pulling 121w, with the motherboard, SSD, fans, etc accounting for the rest of it, so 206 is about right. However...

    What doesn't make sense to me is that the new 330w power supply is giving a lower graphic scores than my 220w supply. I have tried it back and forth several times with the power supply being the only thing I’m changing and the 3DMark11 score is about 800-1,000 points less with the bigger power supply.

    The only thing I can think of is that there is a setting restricting the computer from making use of the 330w. If anyone has an idea or has dealt with this issue before, please let me know what I can do. I’ve played around with settings and I’m trying to research this, but I haven’t found a solution yet.

    Thank you for the support, I appreciate it very much!
     
  3. KY_BULLET

    KY_BULLET Notebook Evangelist

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    I bought a 330 watt for the rig in my signature because I upgraded to a 100 watt GPU plus I have a 130 watt CPU. When I first plugged it in, my cursor started going erratic (thinking and jumping around) and seemed as if my circuitry wasn't going to be able to handle the extra amperage. I left it plugged in just to see if it would settle down and it never did so, I went back to my 220 watt psu thinking that I was going to be stuck with that. They next day when I started it up, I said why not and tried it again. It started acting normal immediately, so I ran fire strike and my score went up over 500 points without adjusting anything.

    Your machine might be regulating the extra amperage that it's receiving because it possibly never was originally engineered for a 19.5 amp psu. Try to plug it back in again and see if it adjusts and allows the extra power through, mine did.
     
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  4. Khenglish

    Khenglish Notebook Evangelist

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    The only thing that makes any sense to me is that the 330W PSU is lower than 19.5V. Effeciency means nothing to the laptop. It gets a voltage and current and it doesn't care how. Newer laptops will read the current and impose amperage limits. If the voltage received is lower than expected, then the laptop will not draw as much power due to the current limit.

    As for a laptop "adjusting" to the PSU that is also impossible. Clevo systems do not read the PSU to find out what it is. You can only get stuttery behavior if the PSU is not plugged in well and the laptop is flickering back and forth between the PSU and battery very very fast.

    Try reading the PSU's nominal output voltage with a multimeter directly from the laptop plug and see what it is.
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2017
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  5. MKazmer

    MKazmer Notebook Consultant

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    Thank you for the advice Khenglish, you certainly know your stuff. I tested the voltages and sure enough the 330w PS voltage was lower than the 230w PS, however it's minimal and I am surprised this would cause this kind of variance in benchmarking scores.

    So, the question is, what do I do now? I suppose I will try to return it since I assume it's a bad power supply, right?

    Thank you again for all of your help and everyone else who has offered advice here. I hope that this thread will also help others in this situation


    330W Power Supply Voltage.jpeg

    230W Power Supply Voltage.jpeg
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2017
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  6. MKazmer

    MKazmer Notebook Consultant

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    One thing I don't understand is how the voltage could effect the laptop when the laptop has a voltage regulator in it that reduces the voltage anyway.

    Another thing I looked into is the efficiency ratings of these adapters and the Chicony has a higher efficiency rating with tier VI rather than the Delta's tier V efficiency rating.

    I just want to better understand what's happening here and also want to know how people like Mr. Fox gets his 980m to produce a 14,000 score in 3DMark11.
     
  7. yrekabakery

    yrekabakery Notebook Deity

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    By adding the 3 missing power FETs to the MXM board, and overclocking it. Your GPU appears to be at stock clocks on a non-Prema vBIOS.

    I get 15K graphics at my daily driver settings (check sig) but 13K overall because my CPU is slow and 3DM11 overall score is highly influenced by CPU.

    The choice of OS also makes a difference. Windows 7 gives the highest 3DM11 scores (it's the opposite with FS which favors W8/10).
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2017
  8. Darker01

    Darker01 Notebook Geek

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    Not sure if you noticed it, but in the screenshot for the 330W Delta PSU, Performance Limit - Power was tripped for your GPU.
    I noticed while benchmarking my GTX 980M (in P750ZM, Chicony 230W) with Heaven Unigine that whenever that kicked in there's fluctuations in GPU Video Clock. You can find the HWInfo log + benchmark results in the attached file (columns BO and BV, first run is the affected run).

    I noticed that the 330W PSU you got has a red female adapter as opposed to the black one that my P870DM 330W PSU has. I could (very likely) be wrong, but I think the one you bought might be for an ASUS laptop. The PSU itself might have a ID chip which checks for the laptop it is plugged in and caps the power as explained here with the Dell version. The Clevo version of the 330W PSU does not have that chip or at least it doesn't check.
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Dec 9, 2017
  9. MKazmer

    MKazmer Notebook Consultant

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    I am running Prema's vBIOS for the GSync 980m 8GB as well as Prema's system BIOS for this P750DM-G. As far as the power supply goes, the place where I bought it sold it as a Clevo P37xSM-A Adapter, so it should work fine for my machine, unless I was sent the wrong one. I do think it's odd that the plug is red.

    What are you doing to get a 15k graphics score? I repasted with Gelid GC-Extreme and the temps actually improved a little, but it didn't effect the benchmarks. My GPU is only going up to 54 C temp during my 3DMark11 run.
    The image below is with the 330w adapter and Gelid paste. The CPU scores look great, and it seems to be running well, it's just my GPU score that's lacking here and I think it's somehow effected by the adapter.

    Any ideas about what I should try next? I was getting 14,700 graphics score with a 980m in my P150SM-A and have never achieved that in this machine. I thought it was possibly the CPU or PSU, so I upgraded to the 6700k and a 330w adapter and my score went down, this is driving me nuts.

    What can I do to get to the bottom of this?

    Thank you

    3DMK11 with Gelid.PNG
     
  10. yrekabakery

    yrekabakery Notebook Deity

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    If you're asking me, like I said, I overclocked my 980M. The clocks and voltage it's running at, and benchmarks, are in my sig. +225 MHz core, +200 MHz memory, +100 mV in Nvidia Inspector. GPU Power in HWiNFO64 is over 150W at 100% load and 70C with these settings.

    Your card probably can't run my settings stably unless you mod your MXM board to add the 3 missing power FETs. The unmodified 980M MXM comes with 3/6 FETs filled and craps out with black screen crashes well before 150W, while I can game for hours without a hint of instability probably because my BGA 980M has 6 FETs by default.

    Your stock Graphics Score with 230W PSU in the OP is basically identical to mine: https://www.3dmark.com/3dm11/12483934
     
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