DELL Precision 7*30 motherboard photo outflow: graphics card heterotypic

Discussion in 'Dell Latitude, Vostro, and Precision' started by song_1118, May 9, 2018.

  1. nforce4max

    nforce4max Notebook Geek

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    This is why I am going to keep using my antiques until I get the soup nazi moment where M$ decides to not support my older hardware at all anymore.
     
  2. Mobius 1

    Mobius 1 nͫٴiͤٴcͫٴeͤ੮Һ૯ ცɿ૭ ૭คעٴٴٴٴٴٴٴٴٴٴٴٴٴٴٴٴٴٴٴٴٴٴٴٴٴٴٴ

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    The PGA conversions are around 175USD on taobao
     
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  3. triturbo

    triturbo Long live 16:10 and MXM-B

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    Let's be honest MXM 3 is gone. I had the same understanding as you guys - MXM 3 can handle more than 100W, but quite obviously OEMs/ODMs don't think like that. You can cram only that much power on a standard MXM reliably. As posted earlier HP is going to release the new ZBook 17 G5 with P5200 (MXM), but my guess is that it would be the lower-power version (Max-Q ~110W). Why? The machine comes with a 200W brick, so this doesn't leave much more than ~100W for the GPU. Don't forget that it has to power a 6 core Xeon and a handful of SSDs/HDDs. Once released I hope that we'll get more information. Then we can have a nice rundown on the current MXM/"MXM" 1070s and you'll see what I mean: Zotac - standard shape 90W; msi - non-standard 100W++; Clevo - non-standard 100W++; Aetina - non-standard 100W++; Eurocom - quite frankly I have no idea with what vBIOS they end-up in users is it 90W, 110W, more, less?! I think you see the pattern. Please fill in the blanks, but the chances are that anything that requires more than 100W would be a custom shape to accommodate the extra power circuity and these custom shapes rarely fit into more than a couple of other notebooks. So no, for me at least, MXM is no longer a standard, if one wants more than 100W that is and I think this is where all the fuss is about.

    So if I was to design a new module it would've been an awfully lot like this. Why? Firstly - ports on the GPU - these are guaranteed to work, no matter the machine. Kinda like the VGA port of old MXMs - you might get internal, you might get HDMI/DP/DVI, you might get all of that, or none of that, but the VGA was ALWAYS working (for me at least). Secondly slim - I mean why not? You can add a second row of pipes from these saved millimeters of the missing MXM slot. Of course we know how their module would end-up - thin machines, just right cooling, maybe less, maybe more, tests would tell, nothing overdone pretty much given. Don't quite get why it has to be ribbon cables and not a slot, maybe so you can pull it out directly, without needing to slide it first? Anyway, thirdly shape - desktops rock such design for quite a while, so why not laptops as well? The only real drawback I see is that the on-board ports limit the possible design choices, where the MXM was able to be placed quite literary all over the board without giving a damn. Oh and the theoretical module would've had different (wider) hole spacing as I don't see this thing able to fit an HBM chip between the current pattern.

    TL;DR We do need a new standard, but I doubt that we'll see such thing sadly.
     
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  4. jeremyshaw

    jeremyshaw Big time Idiot

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    ^^ pertaining to your ribbon cable question, I have a guess.

    MXM is not a firmly locking slot. This leaves a bit of wiggle room via the slot itself (for a M.2 Wifi card, no problem, but MXM is a potentially 100W+ daughterboard). So whatever is holding the other side of the daughterboard needs to be firmly connected to the slot somehow. This is what allows the MXM board to be retained securely (so the thermal expansion of the HSF assembly won't knock it out of place over time, etc). On the Wifi card example, it's easy enough to have the other end of the board be screwed into the chassis. It's rigid enough for a <5W card with nearly no heat dissipation requirements. But for a MXM card with all of its requirements, the relationship between the slot and the screwmounts need to be very good. This usually means the slot and screwmounts are on the same PCB, for rigidity. This adds to the thickness of the laptop. Alternatively, one could have an incredibly rigid chassis that has nearly identical thermal expansion as the mainboard, but that seems both unlikely and against industry trends of thinner laptops.

    Now, Dell is following the industry trend for thinner laptops (sadly consumer driven). MXM generally needs at least two PCBs to fit on top of each other (for the mounting purpose mentioned earlier), the alternative to is to make a connector that doesn't require a rigid mounting point. Since they aren't going to waste space with a locking MXM connector (gains would be minimal, IMO), they went all the way and made the GPU daughterboard completely separate. Completely separate boards usually use flexible connections, to account for movement of parts (thermal expansion, chassis flex, even pounding on the keys, frustrated user smacking the PC when it freezes, vibrations from being in a vehicle, sunlight exposure, etc).

    IMO, Dell did the best they could.
     
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  5. Ashtrix

    Ashtrix ψυχή υπεροχή

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    Brother @Papusan and @Mr. Fox It's the PR stunts. Remember the Azor posts about the socketed CPUs (ROFL, how about they talk the ROG Zephyrus with AMD Ryzen 7 1700 laptop, fall flat on face. They can spew as much as they can when people can absorb stuff like this.

    There's one more reason that being the Dell privatization and gimping of Alienware in the contractual process agreement. And what else the camp leader Azor dictates the stuff and they do this, We used to have Alienware reps much active here and what happened ? then came the faux heatfins/heatsink. What happened to the Quality control ? Look at desktop joke (spoiler, I have to respect and thank brother @Cass-Olé for his strong voicing on the NBR, AWarena and Internet for this BS show Alienware/Dell has kept up). It's made for lining the pockets for Mr. Dell and his Co. to fleece the customers.

    DGFF
    [​IMG]
    joke of the decade.

    Dell Precision M6800 with P5000 says hello.

    - First wave hit with ultimate joke
    - Price gouging
    - Oh this thread is a trove of Dell's Antics, thanks to Papusan
    - The final blow, abandonment, they are presumably now consumed by coolkids.

    MXM isn't dead at all. Nvidia forced it due to lack of competition from AMD and their rebrand mess. They can't compete with Ngreedia on DR realm and using the same GPU in mobile will melt the whole housing of the laptop and the owner of laptop as well LOL. The MXM page which puts emphasis as an open standard doesn't exist anymore. The 980M threw the efficiency and TDP numbers out of window and they milked us with the custom 980 200W MXM cards there it all began the custom MXM chipsets, useless even on their machines, Clevo 1080 GTX uses proprietary pins which block upgrades in their own Z170 machines, that's like same gen from Z270 to back Z170. Nope. They want it all. MSI did the upgrade promise and blew it up. NBR users unleashed hell and they started trade in garbage, their NOS is so great that why would you not buy their machines /s, want more info on the battery drain for the BGA trash ? Here, read this since then to today & even future.

    P5000 is the proof that clearly exists with the 100W TGP very easily given the cooling and the component integrity the machine can sustain upto 300W (YES 300Watts but the usual limit of MXM3.0b is to better stop at 150W granted you can cool off the GPU and the machine and not have boiling PCH and NVMe SSDs suffocating to death), want proof ? here (You might be thinking who is this random guy talking about the MXM slot rating, I suggest you learn about him by yourselves sorry & the Clevo 1060 also uses the new proprietary slots, also how about the MSI GTX 1070 being the most powerful and robust 1070 MXM GPU chipset without a power connector ? I'll just leave it to your imagination. We should also know that Pascal voltage scaling is bad as we go up and it's throttle nature from up ~47C 13Mhz drop in clocks AND their tactic of the Signatured vBIOS to prevent custom flashing and milk later with the MaxQ), this DGFF is pathetic, looking at it, It even has the I/O ports on it, means if any port busts GPU replacement, Quadro tag, ++++$$$$ to Dell pocket again.

    As usual typical corporate koolaid drama. I advice people to look at Clevo for their GPU needs. I don't know how the P5000 reacts to Clevo machines, but I guess they should be fine.
    Planned obsolescence is going very stronk these days as you know, the primary defector was Apple corp. They started this BGA craze with their ODD abandoned Macbooks and soon all followed, Intel was exclusive contracter for their special Iris CPU SKUs and they are only available in BGA form factor, Seeing the massive cash influx to Apple with their repair market agendas (charge a ton for the repair and service, component costs) Intel saw gold mine, wants to pocket money, OEM wants to pocket money, thin and light sells so good with marketing and it's easy Nvidia MaxQrippled (Article had to be toned down iirc due to corporate pressure) anyone ? Everyone wants to tap into the repair market, Lobbying (Inevitable, at multiple levels, but read how much of the repair market they want control of), so they are hell bent to prove it otherwise with all that tacky marketing fluff. End of story, we know what happened. Intel dictated all these OEMs that they can gain more cash by following the suit since people are anyways brainwashed to the reality and forget physics, the prime example is the new i9 + MaxQ BS laptops. And the new stats.

    Azor and Dell
    [​IMG]


    And yeah I stole this from one of the posts mentioned here

    [​IMG]
    ^ Corporate upper management
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2018
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  6. Papusan

    Papusan JOKEBOOKS = That sucks! Dont wast your $$ on FILTH

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    What’s the point put in dGPU at all if you can’t utilize max power? Welded on, proprietary or MXM graphics doesn’t matter. Just use iGPU. All mobile Processors handle graphics. Notebooks need only processors, ram, Wifi and storage.
    [​IMG]
    https://mobile.twitter.com/AzorFrank/status/996075296406286336
     
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  7. triturbo

    triturbo Long live 16:10 and MXM-B

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    Wattage of this P5000?

    The msi's 1060 is standard, the 1070 gained a few millimeters here and there. Explain that. Actually you already did it "being the most powerful and robust 1070 MXM GPU chipset without a power connector", because it has a bit more, so to say, go-fast parts which can't fit regular MXM.

    He says the slot can provide 266W. Is this the actual slot or includes the auxiliary power connector? Then again most MXM machines are designed according to the MXM spec, which states 10A peak power source (usually 19.5V), which results in 195W peak, which is anywhere from (what we see as stock) 100W, to as far as one is willing to try their luck AND cooling, usually 130~150W. Still leaves some headroom. Try running 195W constant load on a random MXM spec machine and film it. I'd love to see the video.

    How often that occurs? If one of the ports on your MoBo goes poof, then what?

    Overall I agree that DELL has done quite a few "nice" things over the years (I also dearly HATE them for effing Alienware up), but this module looks pretty nice to me at least.

    We need a new standard (can we actually agree on something, getting OEMs/ODMs agree on it would be even more fun :D ), or we can sit down and enjoy the occasional 100W standard MXMs and call it a day.
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2018
  8. Papusan

    Papusan JOKEBOOKS = That sucks! Dont wast your $$ on FILTH

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    How complicated is it to add external power delivery, power connector and cable if it's needed (given the cooling)? MXM can still be used. No valid point skip the MXM slots design!!

    The MXM slot in its self ain’t/isn’t the problem. It’s the ODM/OEM’s massive greed + the desire for push out thin and flimsy who won't work as you should expect.
    You can find proper info in one of the MSI GT73/75 sub threads. I’m on my phone and difficult to find it. Take a search.
    Maybe @Falkentyne can post some info. Maybe not a video, but far from 100W.

    Talk about random MXM spec machine... This isn't the question here.

    Edit. As long there isn't a new standard... Just continue use what already out there(MXM who handle 200w)... Not welded on aka BGA or strange/weird proprietary design as already showed in the thread:D
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2018
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  9. Falkentyne

    Falkentyne Notebook Prophet

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    Did someone summon me?

    226W+ on a GTX 1070. On a MSI BGABook

    Anymore questions?

    Actually pulled 232W on the previous run.

    fse.jpg

    fs.jpg
     
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  10. Ashtrix

    Ashtrix ψυχή υπεροχή

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    100W TGP. Maybe we can OC it a bit to 115-120W ofc it's locked to hell needs vBIOS mod again but it's a great option that I see as for now. Zotac 1070 is good but the Box cost is almost at P5000 and it's worthless as it won't post without the card, IIRC the Zotac magnus box has some EC check and all, if it could house an older 9xxM series it would have been a simple mini backup machine. But nope Corporate greed.

    Yeah, but MSI could make it normally just to screw consumers over, that stupid tab is there for that purpose only. After all they make the GPUs for Clevo too, Plus 980M - 100W but it crosses that mark often and we know that MSI trade in fiasco, they went so far to delete the webpages and archiving those made this trade in go live. And yeah the Desktop performance was the key reason to make them out of standard but the lack of competition led them do this move. Why would they not create an updated open standard MXM chipset card if AMD was in the game, AMD was busy re -branding. And now we ended up with proprietary problems.


    That's why I mentioned the 150W , because the older machines they are built long back, The AW18 poofs so often, My Ranger is doing good I run my 980M at 135W ran all AAA titles with very high GFX fidelity settings, ME Catalyst, ME Andromeda, Prey, BF1 to name a few. If we can cool the GPU and add FETs to the missing places, the card would be more efficient so do machine. And we know our machines they are fairly old. Even Loafer's 17 R1 MSI 1070 + 4930MX project it didn't had issues, Or the Zotac 1070 from Striker 17 R1 with Clevo vBIOS (needs FETs to OC more) and Eposaurus Pascal upgrade as well, yes these machines have a hard TDP limit due to the chassis built for Haswell also the cooling as you mentioned but they are at-least doable since the MXM slot is physically existing over this DGFF joke, this should never succeed.

    AW 17 also has custom HS for these cards. People have much many options, we can use these Quadro MXMs or even dremel and make them fit if they want to and why would you run it on the lethal levels ? Like running an MXM on Ranger or M18x R2 or Viking at 190W = fire and stupid. You can tweak the chipset as per your needs. Even they won't let us do that, Ngreedia vBIOS shenanigans, EC locks on MSI, Clevo the latter can be unlocked off that BS limits.

    OC the GPU and it will go poof because of the poor power constraints they put in, forget ocing on that because you don't get any extra EC pass, It will 100% block you from that on top of that if you do you'll lose a part of the MoBo that's less worse than full BGA but it's proprietary again making parts much more difficult than the typical BGA full Mobo parts. It's not about our MXM slotted machines, we are screwed anyways since the processors started to go BGA route and the problem is more about the proprietary approaches these people have, we should never encourage it. And we know the new BGA system TDP is only DIE vs the traditional only the MXM chipset board which has better integrity since it spreads and doesn't blow the motherboard.

    They won't agree, MXM MSI and Clevo are made by MSI and they chose this BS to sell more and lock users down, BUT Clevo atleast promised that these MXM FF will the going forward. Also they placed a brickwall with the proprietary standard ports not compatible with the older 3.0b spec. Alienware is dead / Dell is dead as well, XPS was made to compete with Alienware but look what happened it became a bastardized child for the BGA thin and light norm XPOS and that MaxQrippled milking fest. Yep the MXM Quadro cards are our best bet but i'm afraid on their way out, if Dell leaves that standard more OEMs will follow this. Avg consumer doesn't know even an ounce of what we discuss here and they are made to do that, thanks to the journalism and FB which impact psychological parts of our society.

    Also to spell more doom, BIOS will be EOLed in 2 years. Buy your best what you can, going forth they will lock everyone out with their secure filth and signature checking BS else no Booting / POST for ya.
     
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