Current design fads in laptops that you hate.

Discussion in 'Notebook Cosmetic Modifications and Custom Builds' started by TSE, Dec 28, 2011.

  1. inperfectdarkness

    inperfectdarkness Notebook Evangelist

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    Anything will traditionally look better on a larger display...at least up to a point.

    As far as consumer satisfaction...that's on the consumer. If you buy a high-end gaming laptop with a 4k screen and expect it to hit 300fps ULTRA in all the latest games at 4k, you're an idiot. If manufacturers are removing a high-end option because of the idiot unwashed masses, that's a cop-out imho.

    I knew back in 2001 when I bought my first truly high-end rig, that there was no expectation to get max everything on a 1920x1440 screen; the 4600 Ti was the only card that was making 1600x1200 playable for the first time--anything more was over ambitious.

    Next thing you'll tell me is that a base model Camaro shouldn't be sold, because people will hop in and lead-foot it and be disappointed that it's not got as much oomph as the SS. I mean, that's essentially the same logic here.

    Moreover, it will NEVER be a "mistake" to offer 4k on a 15" laptop. NEVER. The option should always be available. And without this kind of support, MS is never going to get off their duff and fix scaling issues. Which means that EVERYONE with a 4k of any size is going to suffer. This is the same luddite nay-saying arguments I heard back when x64 OS's were new, and everyone poo-poo'd moving from x32.
     
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  2. Jarhead

    Jarhead 恋の♡アカサタナ

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    Given that there are options out there for what you’re looking for, by this point it seems that you’re mostly ranting about the prices of such selections.

    (Or, you know, desktop’s are always a cheaper option ;) )
     
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  3. Ionising_Radiation

    Ionising_Radiation ?v = ve*ln(m0/m1)

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    @imperfectdarkness...

    If you want a 4K display in a notebook, why not buy one? What's the problem? No one's actually stopping you from spending an extra $100 to get such a display...

    Like @Jarhead said here, you're just ranting about nothing but the prices now. The options are there. The 4K option is obviously more expensive than the 1080p one for the time being. If you don't want to pay more, we're afraid that it doesn't work like that.

    No one's saying 4K 15" displays shouldn't be sold. We're saying that at present, it's not a smart buy because it's fledgling technology, and the software + hardware support is lacking.
     
  4. inperfectdarkness

    inperfectdarkness Notebook Evangelist

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    Except the manufacturers who don't actually offer this option. Are we forgetting that part now?

    If it sounds like repetition, it's because my point isn't getting through. When I needed a new gaming rig with a 1070 GTX card in a 15" laptop--there were TWO manufacturers who offered a 4k display. TWO. Clevo and Gigabyte. I had no issue with the prices on either; my issue with Clevo is from a previous Sager I'd owned. And after buying the Gigabyte, I'm never going to buy another Gigabyte again. For the sake of clarity, MSI, Asus and Dell would have been my top picks--but those weren't even options.

    The only reason $3000 came up was because of the link someone posted a few posts ago. None of the laptops I've ever shopped at were remotely close to the $3000 price point; my GX660R was ~$1500, my 8662 was $2100, my GT60-261 was $2100, and my P35X was ~$1800. 2 of these have UHD displays. I have ZERO issue with the $2000 price point. I have HUGE consternation with the insinuation that I have to step up to the $3000 price point to simply get a 1070gtx with a UHD screen in a 15" laptop.

    If I wanted to be ripped off every time I bought a product, have zero choices on customizing it to my tastes, and get derided by loyal fans for questioning the whole affair--I'd buy an Apple.
     
  5. Jarhead

    Jarhead 恋の♡アカサタナ

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    To be honest though, if you have the disposable income for a $2000 machine (hell, I've never spent that much on any of my computers), an extra $1000 isn't *that much* of a stretch beyond that, especially for a *must-have* feature that 1070+/4K seems to be.

    Going back to my W520 example, there weren't a lot of options out there for a laptop with a good 1080p display that was durable and could also do some amount of gaming, while not being a gaudy/flashy affair like Alienware, et. al. My choices were basically limited to workstation-class laptops with that narrow criteria and out of the three choices out there (Thinkpad W, Dell Precision, HP Elitebook W), the W520 had the better of the 1080p displays for a "sane" price of $250 (ignoring the very expensive Dreamcolor/Preimercolor options from HP/Dell). Because I considered the featured mentioned to be priorities for me (much in a similar manner as you consider 1070+/4K), I didn't rant online about how Alienware (for example) doesn't go out of its way to make a business-class laptop with conservative styling, I sucked it up and spend the $250 for the W520 1080p display upgrade (compared to $50-$100 for the competitions' lesser-quality 1080p displays). $250 in the context of a laptop that retails in the $1500-$2500 range is peanuts. Sure, I could have traded some of my demands for more selection / lower price, for example I could have gone for a less durable consumer-class laptop and would have had a wide range of models from AW/Clevo/MSI/etc for cheaper (analog to giving up the 4K or 1070 in your case), but I was stubborn enough about my wants/needs to have that option locked from me. That said, it would have been pretty neat to be able to email @Tanner@XoticPC and demand something with very high-end specs in a business-class frame and I will only be willing to pay $X for it, though realistically that's not on the table at the moment.

    The Apple buyer analogy is actually pretty apt. We have people who **absolutely must(!!)** have macOS, or a touch bar, or whatever it is that attracts Apple buyers to the platform, and they seem to think that the combination of features is worth the price of entry (or they compromise on features to get macOS anyway and just buy an Air or a Mini).
     
  6. inperfectdarkness

    inperfectdarkness Notebook Evangelist

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    I'll have to disagree with your assessment of $3000 range. Increasing cost by 1/3rd for something that--as shown from previous generations--only costs a tenth of that, is just highway robbery. I've been studying the laptop high-end segment for a decade, as doing so is the only way to keep one's finger on trending--both with pricing and with hardware/software. Desktops are NOT an option for me; Would be nice--but I'm on the go far too much to justify a desktop as my primary gaming rig. Top end 15" laptops have fallen into the $1500-2000 range for many GPU iterations. This is a known quantity for me; I expect future top-end 15" offerings to fall into a similar range. I add to this my knowledge of the "premium" that MSI has charged for 3k screen upgrades (and what gigabyte has charged for similar 4k upgrades) and arrive a the stated figure of $100.

    I realize that this research is lost on those who remain intentionally ignorant on the world of 4k in laptops. So in lieu of that, here's proof of why $3000 is an insulting insinuation of necessity for the desired specs:

    https://www.avadirect.com/Gigabyte-...070-Graphics-Gaming-Laptop/Configure/11469326

    https://www.avadirect.com/Clevo-P95...070-Graphics-Gaming-Laptop/Configure/11418121 (note that this option lists the 4k upgrade at $107)

    https://www.avadirect.com/Clevo-P75...YNC-Graphics-Gaming-Laptop/Configure/11560230 ($109 option on this model)

    https://www.avadirect.com/Clevo-P65...YNC-Graphics-Gaming-Laptop/Configure/10996563 ($107 on this model)

    ---
    Granted, this is just one website. Notice though, that 3 of the 4 are Clevo, and the other is a Gigabyte. The lone MSI offering doesn't have a 1070 offering to go with the 4k. As I stated--MSI, ASUS, etc--don't offer the desired combo. ASUS even lists the GL502VS as having a UHD option--but good luck finding it. I still haven't.

    p.s.
    The stated purpose of the thread is "design fads in laptops that you hate". The dogmatic clinging to FHD screens w/o even the option for UHD--on top end rigs--most definitely qualifies.

    p.p.s.
    Oh and on the customer's getting peev'd thing. Then why offer UHD on a 1060? (looking at you, MSI). If it's going to tick off consumers that they can't go max-settings in UHD for the newest games, why is it a 1060 option/standard, but not available at all with a 1070?
     
  7. Jarhead

    Jarhead 恋の♡アカサタナ

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    To be clear, I’m not some sort of anti-UHD person (hell, I own a 4K TV lol). I just don’t value it enough in a laptop to justify the costs, and as far as desktops go, it’s a lot cheaper right now to simply rotator one of my 1080p monitors 90 degrees to get 1920 vertical resolution for when I need it ;). Still not 4K vertical resolution, but good enough for me while I wait for 4K monitors to become dirt cheap like 1080p monitors are now.
     
  8. kojack

    kojack Notebook Virtuoso

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    I agree Jarhead. I don't see the NEED for 4k really. My "normal" HD stuff works perfectly OK. Therefore saving me tons of money in the process. Its not like jumping from regular definition to HD. Its like running processors now. Yep new ones are faster...but NOT by that much, unlike the good ole days of 286 then jumping to a 386 which was a huge jump in processing speeds. Its that technology in consumer space has sort of hit a peak, yep new stuff comes out...but no thanks on the prices.
     
  9. alexhawker

    alexhawker Spent Gladiator

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    I much prefer my 3k screen over 1080p.

    After four years on this machine, I can't imagine having the 1080p screen option. Well worth whatever I paid for the upgrade.
     
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  10. Support.2@XOTIC PC

    Support.2@XOTIC PC Company Representative

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    I meant actual display quality, less bleed on the bigger ones, better color space, etc. Perceived quality was a bonus.

    High demand screens in lower performing systems sold as gaming-oriented by companies that are synonymous with gaming computers sold poorly, were not received well among the people who bought them, and were frequently returned with low performance as the reason. "Unwashed masses" or not, there's expectations that something sold that way will be good for its implied use (gaming) and when they're not met that's what happens.

    I don't say whether it should be sold or not. How well it sells and is reviewed will do that on its own. I mean yes, I think it's kind of silly to sell a Camaro like that but if they sell enough of them to make it worthwhile, they're going to keep making it. I also bet most of the decisions you make when purchasing a car are much more widely understood even when irrational, to the point where even low information buyers know what they're getting more than they would with computers.


    It was a mistake to make them under gaming brands and market them as gaming systems when they didn't hold up under a gaming load. Apple could make 4K computers with integrated graphics all day and no one would bat an eye. So could Toshiba or HP. But when companies were pairing 4K with lower GPUs and putting that hardware in lineups that were otherwise gaming, well, there's a reason they stopped, and I have already said there will be a reason for them to start again when there are more mainstream GPUs to back it up. I want the tech to advance as much as anyone, and I am confident we won't have that long to wait before the coming generations of GPU have us swimming in 4K panels.

    And the option is available, a 4K panel with a 1070. Gigabyte has a P56 version. AORUS has an X5 coming. The P750TM1-G supports it. The P650HS-G supports it. Not every manufacturer needs to offer every configuration, and some have made it their business to offer more configuration options.
     
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