CPU Power (in Performance Mode), Heat Sink Layout, and Pricing Difference for a Few Laptop Models.

Discussion in 'What Notebook Should I Buy?' started by Faisal McMissile Damieya, Oct 23, 2020.

  1. Faisal McMissile Damieya

    Faisal McMissile Damieya Notebook Consultant

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    Good day,

    I am from Malaysia and would like to buy a new laptop for engineering software (I am doing a PhD in Mechatronics Engineering and use the MATLAB software most of the time). At this moment, I would like to go for AMD Ryzen 7 4800H and only consider Intel Core i7-10750H if good Ryzen 4000 series laptops are sold out and not restocked in my country by the time I really need the new laptop. Before making the decision, I would like to ask 3 main questions:

    1) CPU Power (in Performance Mode).



    The Hardware Unboxed video above said in performance mode, the power supplied to the CPU is 72 Watt for Eluktronics RP-15/XMG Core 15 (Ryzen 7 4800H) and 65 Watt for Lenovo Legion 5 15 (Ryzen 7 4800H). May I know how much power (or at least where I can get the figure) for the CPU of the following laptops in performance mode?
    i) HP Omen 2020 (Ryzen 7 4800H).
    ii) HP Pavilion Gaming 2020 (Ryzen 7 4800H).
    iii) Acer Nitro 5 2020 (Ryzen 7 4800H).
    iv) Lenovo Legion 5 15 (Core i7-10750H).
    v) Acer Predator Helios 2020 (Core i7-10750H).
    vi) HP Omen 2020 (Core i7-10750H).
    vii) MSI GP65 2020 (Core i7-10750H).

    2) Heat Sink Layout



    The Matthew Moniz video above advised to avoid gaming laptops with a single fan like the MSI GF63 series or a dual fan but close to each other like the following laptops:
    i) Lenovo L340 Gaming.
    ii) Lenovo IdeaPad Gaming 3.
    iii) HP Pavilion Gaming 2019.

    Most of the youtube review video that I found says that HP has separated the fans for the Intel version of Pavilion Gaming 2020, but not the AMD version of Pavilion Gaming 2020. I tried to search the inside view (or at least the rear view) of the AMD version of Pavilion Gaming 2020 on youtube and google, but so far I could not find it. Can anyone in here please confirm whether the fans for the AMD version of Pavilion Gaming 2020 are close with each other or has also been separated like the Intel counterpart?

    3) Pricing Difference
    I notice that the pricing difference for the laptop from different manufacturers are big even though their CPU and GPU are the same. For example, the Dell G5 and Acer Predator Helios 300 2019 with i7-9750H and RTX2060 are around USD250 more expensive than the Clevo and TongFang with the same CPU and GPU sold in my country. At the same time, MSI GP65 also with i7-9750H and RTX2060 are around USD250 more expensive than the Dell G5 and Acer Predator Helios sold in my country.



    Dave2d in the video above said TongFang (and maybe also Clevo) managed to sell their products cheaper because they don't utilise some of their financial resource for marketing/advertisement. For MSI G65, may I know why it is more expensive than the Dell G5 and Acer predator Helios even though the CPUs and GPUs are the same? Is it because the MSI is built from better components/materials, or because of the MSI brand, or because of both better components/materials and brand?


    That is all that I would like to ask. Thank you very much and have a nice day.
     
  2. Charles P. Jefferies

    Charles P. Jefferies Lead Moderator Super Moderator

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    I would research how MATLAB uses a CPU, if you're not already familiar. (I'm not.) Intel's chips usually have better single-thread performance since their single core turbo speeds are higher; the Core i7-10750H is going to have the edge over the Ryzen chips in those situations.
    But if MATLAB makes good use of multithreaded CPUs, then the Ryzen 7 4800H is the way to go.

    I have used the Omen 15 (AMD) and the Acer Predator Helios 300. The Omen has better overall quality, though it tends to be more expensive (at least in the USA).

    You might want to read through some of the manufacturer subforums here - ask in owner's lounge threads about the information you're seeking, or feel free to create a thread to ask your questions.
     
  3. Faisal McMissile Damieya

    Faisal McMissile Damieya Notebook Consultant

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    While trying to survey the best Ryzen Mobile 4000 series in 3 different fora around a few months ago, a few people from that fora also highlighted about this thing. They said that MATLAB might perform slower on an AMD system compared to an Intel system even though the AMD system is faster than the Intel system in most types of workload due to the MKL (math kernel library) setting.

    That was the 1st time I know about the MKL thing. I am from an engineering background, not computer science. There are many MATLAB users who are not from a computer science background (including me), but I think the level of MATLAB knowledge for most of the non-computer science background users are not as high as the computer science background users. Therefore, I think not many non-computer science background users know about this MKL setting for MATLAB on an AMD system (especially the beginners/non-experienced users).

    I did some searching on Google about MKL. Based on my understanding as a beginner so far who are not from the computer science background, most of the websites that I found say that during the MATLAB installation process, the MATLAB installers for version R2019b and earlier set the MKL as 'Intel MKL' (the most optimised MKL for Intel CPU) whenever the installers detect an Intel CPU and set the MKL as 'SSE' (not optimised MKL for AMD CPU) whenever the installers detect an AMD CPU (even though there are other types of MKL that are more optimised for AMD CPU such as the 'IA SSE4', 'AVX', and 'AVX2'). I also obtained 2 more findings: (1) The MATLAB installer for the version R2020a has been fixed to set the MKL as 'Intel MKL whenever the installer detects an Intel CPU but set the MKL as 'AVX2' whenever the installer detects an AMD CPU. For AMD users who uses the MATLAB version R2019b and earlier on an AMD system, there is a tweak to change the MKL setting from the slower 'SSE' to the more AMD-optimised 'AVX2'. However, I am still using the old MATLAB version R2013b and am not sure whether it is also possible to do the same tweaking for the old version like the R2013b.

    The reason why I still use the R2013b version is because I have been keeping too many old MATLAB scripts since I did masters in the year 2008. Every few years, some of the syntaxes in MATLAB are revised/updated for improvement. My old MATLAB scripts will no longer be compatible with the newer MATLAB version because of the syntaxes update. This problem can still be solved by updating the old syntaxes in my old MATLAB scripts to the new syntaxes so that the old scripts can be run error-free on the newer MATLAB version, but I am currently doing a PhD and have a little time to do that at the moment and decided to stick using the MATLAB version R2013b and only revised my existing codes with newer syntaxes after I graduate my PhD.

    The people in the MATLAB forum already taught me how to manually tweak the MKL setting for MATLAB R2013b and monitor the time taken to complete my existing simulation file using different MKL setting on my existing Intel systems to see if there are any significant simulation time differences between those MKL settings on my existing Intel systems (there are actually a few MKL settings for both Intel and AMD CPU, but the most optimised setting is 'Intel MKL' for Intel and 'AVX2' for - If there are significant simulation time difference while using different MKL setting on my existing Intel systems, the same tweaking might also work on AMD system as well. I am supposed to test these tweakings on an actual AMD system for confirmation, but the people of MATLAB fora suggest me to do it on my existing Intel systems because I don't know any friend who can lend me an AMD system for testing purpose. I am currently busy with my university research and will do the testing on my existing Intel systems in a few more weeks.

    Sorry if the reply about the MKL is too technical and difficult to digest. Even I myself haven't fully understood about the MKL thing because it is still a new thing for me and it might take a longer time for me to digest because I am not from the computer science background.

    Understood. If it can be proven that MSI is more expensive than its other counterparts (Dell, Acer etc) with the same specs (CPU and GPU) because of better components + build quality and not because of the brand (reputation), I don't mind spending extra buying MSI (as long as the price range is still within my budget range).

    You mean, check the individual thread for each brand and model to identify the maximum power supplied to CPU, heat sink layout, and components/build quality? All right, I will do it later.


    Thank you very much.
     
  4. Ed. Yang

    Ed. Yang Notebook Evangelist

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    I thought after our discussions back some months ago, TS had made his decision on which make to take...
    Lenovo Ideapad Gaming 3 have their fans situated on one side, not just single pipe or single fan.
    [​IMG]
     
  5. Charles P. Jefferies

    Charles P. Jefferies Lead Moderator Super Moderator

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    @Faisal McMissile Damieya That's good information on MATLAB. It sounds like the processor may not make a big difference - the Core i7-10750H might perform well enough that the Ryzen 7 4800H isn't worth extra money.
    I think you should ignore the processor for now, and focus on the notebook itself. Does it have a good keyboard layout? Is the screen of good quality? Etc.
    That might help you see what you really want in a notebook purchase.

    Charles
     
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