Confussed? K|N and Sager/clevo?

Discussion in 'Sager and Clevo' started by Sparks, Jan 12, 2008.

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  1. Sparks

    Sparks Notebook Consultant

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    After reading post on this forum and Guru of Gaming I'm a bit confussed.

    Who/what are Killer Notebooks?

    Are they a clevo reseller and just add a few modifications of there own, or do they make their own laptops just with similar specs to Clevo/Sager products? I recognize the Odachi as 9262, or do they just use a similar chasis? I can't seem to find 5792, the Executioner SR seems to have similar specs but the picture doesn't quite look like a 5792? But there are quite a few pics of the bottom of the 5792 on this forum showing a modded heat sinks from killernotebooks?

    I've only been on this forum a few months, so I'm wondering if this is a reacuring situation?
     
  2. bhattsan

    bhattsan Notebook Deity

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    KillerNotebooks ARE sager resellers. They mod the original sagers with some heatsinks which supposedly increase cooling. Of course, they also add their own designs and things like that, like some resellers do.

    EDIT: I meant they get the barebones from clevo and then build it from there.
     
  3. Atomicdeluxe

    Atomicdeluxe Notebook Consultant

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    No they are not Sager resellers! They just get the barebones and build everything themselves
     
  4. Greg

    Greg Notebook Nobel Laureate

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    If you are interested in Sager notebooks, you might want to get one from a vendor listed in this thread:
    http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=91510

    AFAIK, the ones that receive high ratings in there are the best of the pack. You might also want to talk with Justin@XoticPC, Gophn, Paladin44, or the other vendors/members who either own reseller companies or are just great sources of information.
     
  5. Gophn

    Gophn NBR Resident Assistant

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    K|N is a reseller/re-brander of notebooks.

    They order Clevo barebones from a distributor (more than likely, since I doubt that they can get it directly through Clevo themselves).

    Like other boutique brands, after receiving the barebones:
    - they can change the chassis's appearance (case mods, paint, etc..)
    - they can change the BIOS splash
    - they can even add/customize some thermal designs.

    Recently, KN has proved that they manufacture custom heatsinks to fit into the new Clevo notebooks to help with cooling... and they mod the bottom panels (adding hole vents and such) to also try to give better cooling.

    But in the past, KN just was like another re-brander and sometimes used minor cooling mods... like in this pic of the old M570U.
    [​IMG]


    but now it seems that they have gone much further with custom fit heatsinks, like in this pic of the new M570RU:
    [​IMG]


    The mods probably help the cooling, but I would not say it would be significant... it would be marginal at best. That is why I always recommend to monitor your temps, do monthly dustings, and use a good notebook cooler.
     
  6. Sparks

    Sparks Notebook Consultant

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    I do plan on getting it from one of those, specifically XoticPC as it seems to be the cheapest. I want to get the 5792/3, but i also want to be able to use it in my lap. And was just curious as to the added heatsinks if they actually do as advertised?
     
  7. Greg

    Greg Notebook Nobel Laureate

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    You'll have to ask Gophn and Justin about that one Sparks, I'm not sure. But looking at those pictures, I'd say the modifications probably do not help much at all.
     
  8. Gophn

    Gophn NBR Resident Assistant

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    The added heatsinks are still passive... so it would not make any significant reductions in heat... it'll be marginal at best (about 5-8C degrees).

    And I do not recommend using notebooks on laps... because it will block the vents of the notebooks on the bottom... preventing airflow to cool down the system.

    I would recommend to use it on a cool, hard, flat surface at all times... preferably on a good notebook cooler, like the Zalman ZM-NC1000 (or NC2000) or Cooler Master Infinite.

    If you really want to use it on your lap, there are things called "Lap Desks"
     
  9. T4House

    T4House Notebook Enthusiast

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    First of all creativity takes time, happens in steps. Mark over at Killernotebooks.com noticed back in '06 that the 7950 was running hotter then he prefered and so did his and Sager's customers, so Mark started to try to do something about it.
    And now according to a review done last September at http://www.techwarelabs.com/reviews/notebooks/executioner-sr/index.shtml, Mark's heatsink mod, and I quote,
    Let's read that again together this time Gophn so you don't misquote and lead these nice people astray in the future,
    After thorough testing this indepentent site did not say
    Bottom line is that if you plan on doing some serious gaming and don't mind spending an extra buck Killernotebooks is not a bad way to go, even though they're not worthy to be listing in Gophn's "Clevo Guide." :)
     
  10. Shyster1

    Shyster1 Notebook Nobel Laureate

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    With all due respect, did you actually look at the two pix Gophn posted? The one on top is the original picture that Gophn was reacting to; the one on the bottom, although somewhat disingenuously placed by its legal owner so that it now appears to have been the "original" picture Gophn was reacting to, apparently represents the current state-of-the-art of KN thermal mods.

    With respect to the real original picture, absent verifiable data showing the claimed temperature modification, the characterization of that mod as "marginal" is not unreasonable.

    With respect to the new set-up, however, KN appears to have commissioned custom heatsink components that, being larger, and possibly correcting certain fabrication defects in the originals, which are discussed in this thread: http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=199495 .

    Interestingly enough, Costas, in this post: http://forum.notebookreview.com/showpost.php?p=2786712&postcount=11 , actually does find that, at least on his system (which appeared to have defective fabrication in the connection between the cooling fins and the heatsink in the original heatsink), even plain-jane aluminum add-on fins gave him a substantial reduction in core temps - a reduction that is very surprising (because no-one would reasonably expect such add-ons to give that much of a cooling boost - i.e., it would be reasonable to hold the opinion that such add-ons would be "marginal at best") - a result that appears to be explained in large part by the fabrication defects in the original heatsink.

    Now, what this all demonstrates is that, due to an apparent fabrication defect affecting a number of 579x systems, the heatsink in those systems was not performing up to specification, making the systems run unduly hot, and even the simple expedient of adding a bunch of cheap metal fins to the heatsink components made up in part for that defect and caused an unreasonably large drop in the system's temperature (unreasonable, that is, to anyone who did not know or suspect that the heatsink itself was defective).

    As a result, in the absence of an explanation (such as that given by Costas referred to above) for why cheap glue-on metal fins were able to produce such a big reduction in temperature, any reasonable person, including Gophn, was entitled to dismiss any claim of that nature as being unwarranted.

    Based on what's been discovered, it now appears to be the case that KN actually was onto something when they started gluing bits of metal onto the original heatsink; however, it does not appear to be the case that at the time (i.e., when the original pix were posted) KN actually understood the underlying cause of the high temps (i.e., the defective heatsink) and therefore essentially just got lucky. In the absence of any evidence that KN actually understood what the underlying defect was, everyone else was entitled to dismiss their claims as unwarranted. The fact that KN did not know of the actual cause of the high temps back then is supported (circumstantially) by the fact that only now have they begun to replace the original heatsink with their own custom heatsink.

    Now, If that was not the case, then the onus is on KN (and its erstwhile supporters) to come forward and demonstrate that KN knew of the defect in the original heatsink and understood how that defect resulted in glued-on metal bits creating such a substantial drop in temps; what they are not entitled to do is (a) surreptitiously slip in updated pix to make it look like they knew about the defect earlier than they probably did, or (b) attack anyone who took the reasonable view that, in the absence of a good explanation, claims of significant temp reduction were more likely than not to be unwarranted, accuse those same people of slander (technically, it would have been libel, not slander, because it was printed, not spoken; in any event, it almost certainly was neither slander nor libel - in particular, those making such claims should read the old Supreme Court decision in NY Times v. Sullivan, 376 U.S. 254 (1964),http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_Times_Co._v._Sullivan they'll come away with a much better grasp of why it's almost impossible to win a libel/slander case in the US, as compared to the UK for example), or, lastly, threaten to use their lawyers to drown those same people in oceans of paper-work (that, by the way, is getting close to being abuse of process - it's ok to tell someone that you'll sue them; it's not ok to attempt to coerce someone into doing something they are not obligated to do by threatening to use your lawyers as vehicles of harrassment).
     
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