Clevos with new 6-core Intel Mobile Cpus

Discussion in 'Sager and Clevo' started by sicily428, Nov 24, 2017.

  1. Legion343

    Legion343 Notebook Consultant

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    Well I have said not a long ago that new H-series started to perform as low voltage U-crap ones. I can understand that their behavior can defended in some way (efficiency is prioritized not performance). Hoverer doing so in mobile high performance CPUs is unacceptable.

    Intel should include label TDP for Turbo ~60-65 W. I wonder how much even more higher clocked mobile i9 needs (~100 W i guess?).
    [​IMG]

    Temperatures can be fight with good pastes like TGK or even LM TGC but only % of people will know that first they should even repaste their laptop and even less how to do it... The worse thing is TDP cap so without BIOS/EC mods there is no hope...
     
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  2. Papusan

    Papusan JOKEBOOKS = That sucks! Dont wast your $$ on FILTH

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    This would destroy Intel's sale of H-series BGA processors. All too much of todays notebook models is thin and flimsy and haven't the needed cooling design/capacity to cope with such increase in TDP. And there is a reason Intel put 45W TDP specifications for their i9-8950Hk... More sales. And the OEM's goal is thinner models with cheaper and even more flimsy cooling. This doesn't fits together or can't be combined!! Same as mixing oil and water.

    See below... Not a Clevo model but this will/can give you some thoughts for mind... If this i9-8950Hk BGA had +65w TDP, then wouldn't Intel be able to push it on Dell. Because they couldn' put in this DellBook. And Intel would loose the increased $200 usd profit in sales vs. push out the cheaper i7-8750H. Intel ain't Stupid!!

    Why the need for put in the more expencive unlocked i9-8950Hk in this DellBOOK (XPS) if it barely can manage to run 3.04GHz? Moore $$$$$ on Dell and Intel? The cheaper i7-8750H could probably do same tasks. As well the cheaper partial unlocked i7-8850H. People have to pay premium price for something they really can't or won't get! The performance increase/gains you should expect with an unlocked chips.
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2018
  3. Mr. Fox

    Mr. Fox Undefiled BGA-Hating Elitist

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    Yes, I hear you brother. You are 100% correct as well. The TDP capping and firmware-induced throttling makes the situation utterly hopeless without a savior like @Prema to right all of the wrongs. This leaves the vast majority of consumers with Clevos and other brands (those without Prema magic to save the day) destitute and despondent, with absolutely no basis for hope. The digital castration is an absolutely brutal crime. Sadly, many will throw away their hard-earned money on fancy new broken turdbook garbage. But, OMG... it's s-o-o-o-o cute they just can't resist it.
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2018
  4. sicily428

    sicily428 Donuts!! :)

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    So you could fix that with an higer TDP like 55w or 65w?
     
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  5. senso

    senso Notebook Evangelist

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    The CPU's are locked so you cant change the TDP directly, there might be some workaround/hack-ish way using the IA AC DC Loadline slopes to trick the CPU into thinking its using less current(and thus power), but that can be prevented pretty easily by the OEM's by using a current shunt and reading the current and doing all the throttling in EC firmware(which seems to be the norm now a days, "kids" can keep hacking the BIOS, we just screw them with limits on the EC, have fun with that one).
     
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  6. Prema

    Prema Your Freedom, Your Choice

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    We have to Mod the EC since the 2015 models and not only does their code change entirely from model to model but also from EC revision to EC revision.
    Took me literally 3 months to fix the KM1 code and about a month to figure out the P6xxRx models, which was a pain in the **** without having actual hardware to work with at hand.
    Realistically it's a pure waste of time and makes no monetary sense, but it's still nice to see a constant all core 5.2Ghz+ during benches on the LGA K or 4.5Ghz+ on those older BGA HK.
    Sadly enthusiast like @Mr. Fox or @Johnksss rarely purchase the later to really push them to their limits with some AC love and ambient thermals only take you so far unless your are @Papusan.
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2018
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  7. Mr. Fox

    Mr. Fox Undefiled BGA-Hating Elitist

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    We are so blessed to have your talent. You are the only reason left for owning an expensive high performance laptop for some of us. If you ever retire, those will immediately become worthless overpriced garbage that is unworthy of being purchased. I know I will refuse to spend any of my money on broken trash.

    I will never pay more than $500 for a castrated BGA piece of feces. I honestly want to see BGA gaming turdbooks fail miserably and become an object of universal hatred and contempt, so purchasing a piece of dog excrement like that and seeing how far it can be pushed with an unlocked BIOS and AC cooling would be counter-intuitive and counter-productive, and it would contribute financially to the ongoing delinquency of the dishonest retards that build and sell them. They (the companies, not the people,) deserve to die a brutal death for their incompetence and insolence toward us all.
     
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  8. XMG

    XMG Company Representative

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    You can't have it both ways - Clevo et al (companies) build and sell (and the people who work there), the resellers/system integrators (companies) build and sell (and the people who work there). Kill the companies which are, and for which people who work there are, delinquent, dishonest, retarded, incompetant and insolent; there's no more BGA or LGA laptops; full stop.

    Pretty sure you could get your point across whilst toning your language and vitriol down a little......?
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2018
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  9. Mr. Fox

    Mr. Fox Undefiled BGA-Hating Elitist

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    I don't want it both ways. I sincerely want BGA to die on expensive "high performance" notebooks regardless of the outcome. I'm not joking. It's not likely I will get what I want, but I won't stop wanting it and won't spend any money on expensive "high performance" BGA filth. Every heart and mind that people like myself and others can turn against it is a micro-win that could eventually inflict sufficient financial harm on the peddlers of BGA filth to force them to pay attention if they want to remain in business. Unfortunately, there would have to be some collateral damage and the good people that work for those shameful corporations can blame those who employ them for the end result, not the intelligent consumers that refuse to demonstrate any tolerance for it.

    It's not a hard fix. All they have to do is man up and offer better options rather than exclusively offering pathetic BGA trash. Kudos to Clevo for being the only company with the balls to do it on a couple of models. Partial Kudos to MSI for the yet-to-materialize workstation they plan to release, but it needs to be released in an enthusiast version with a desktop K CPU, GeForce 1080+ and none of their famous firmware castration to get full credit.
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2018
  10. XMG

    XMG Company Representative

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    @Mr. Fox I think you missunderstood what I meant by "both ways". You can't insult the companies without insulting the people who work for the companies and vice versa. You're not calling a company a retard, you're calling the people who "build and sell" these laptops retards. I'm not gonna cry over that, but I take offence to it because I for one am reasonably confident that I'm not a "dishonest retard".

    Either way, the fact is that yes you may sway some people's minds but it also has a negative impact because the language you (and tbh some others occasionally) is getting really tired and you're actually strengthening the opposing parties to your POV because of the manner in which your argument is made - not necessarily the argument itself.

    I completely understand your position however and I know you're not joking when you say that you want to see the end of BGA in mid-high end laptops. The only solution at the moment is to completely replace BGA with LGA/MXM and that's simply not practical. I've said this before, but the vast majority of the market simply doesn't want LGA products and they don't care as much as some might think that they aren't getting the performance in some chassis that they "should be" (what exactly do we have as a reference point apart from other BGA laptops) - until there's a substantial problem where, for example. the hardware can't keep up with games etc to the level that the market will accept, it's going to be a very difficult battle for you to make any headway on.

    At the same time, yes we need resistance - I was just waying that I think you can be more successful with this and alienate less people if you change the way that you're making the argument. I have seen more progress behind the scenes over the last 6 months than I have in the last 3-5 years. This hasn't all made it to released products, not by a long way, but things are starting to change a little bit. This is a by-product of consumer response - not in terms of units sold but because companies like us feedback to the ODMs and ultimately what our customers tell us reinforces our existing points of view regarding functionality, options, performance, cooling, battery size, keyboards and so on.
     
  11. Prema

    Prema Your Freedom, Your Choice

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    LOL :D

    Live and let live! :)

    Intel and NVIDA are pushing BGA to help cut servicing costs and jobs in the industry, that's really all that is behind it.
    Those working there should revolt as AIO throw it away and replace it sadly is the mass markets future in everything tech.
     
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