Clevo P150 and P170 cooling systems neglected by Clevo! (solutions here)

Discussion in 'Sager and Clevo' started by Beefsticks, Jul 10, 2012.

?

Does this thread help you?

  1. Yes

    76 vote(s)
    58.0%
  2. No

    16 vote(s)
    12.2%
  3. Good to know but too scared to try

    39 vote(s)
    29.8%
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Beefsticks

    Beefsticks Notebook Consultant

    Reputations:
    287
    Messages:
    166
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    31
    Edit: %100 fan function is now available in custom BIOS for any P150/P170 (and many other Clevo models) thanks to Prema's BIOS mod! http://forum.techinferno.com/clevo-sager/3119-premas-mod-bios-latest-stock-bios.html


    For all those with Clevo 150s and 170s that have heat issues, Clevo has somewhat neglected their customers by calling them high performance gaming notebooks, then completely slacking on their cooling system installations and designs. These issues are all discussed on many separate threads, but I've consolidated them here for ease of research since it took me quite awhile to piece this all together for my own solutions. With no exaggeration, models affected by poorly installed systems result in unnecessary 15-30C gains on various P150 and P170 models. It is a lottery of which machine gets bad installations. For me it was poorly installed on the 7970M GPU I ordered with it. I've been told this has can be a problem with the CPU as well from other owners, but in my case, the CPU cooling system was well installed and wouldn't benefit from any pipe modification. I am using a P150EM + AMD 7970M, and guess what? But, who am I to complain without offering solutions? I'll list the issues then address or link to each one.

    If this guide ends up helping you please +rep :) thanks


    Index of issues:

    1 - The CPU and/or GPU heatsink can be improperly pressured. This results from improperly installed pipes that add leverage to the block, or the block itself doesn't have enough pressure on it because the metal mount tabs are too flexible; EVEN WITH SCREWS %100 TIGHTENED. Solutions below!

    2 - Poor alignment between pipes and/or fins to the fan which leaves air gaps. Tape can be used to fix this. Solved in this thread: Seal air leaks with tape

    3 - The plastic shell cover on the bottom of the notebook restricts airflow throughput by an unacceptable margin of at least %50. :mad: The vent ports are horribly designed and has been compared to "breathing through a sock" I get -12c instantly after taking mine off.

    4 - Custom :( Fan :( Policies :(. As of late, there are now custom BIOS that allow %100 fan mode for any P150EM. Good for those hot days where you really do need maximum cooling.




    First, a big diagram of all the inner problems: (the red text 1,2,3 is step 1,2,3 for issue #1) I must mention the testing of uneven pressure is with this notebook is upside down. The adjustments you make may shift around when you flip the notebook back over, but, it still should be improved if you had alignment issues to behind with. While you will be using the notebook right side up, it is much easier to test for the pressure problems upside down. The final washer/support fix should be done right side up, and with much more patience than upside down since it takes more coordination to do it right side up. I got underneath it like you would a car and had it sitting on an opened elevated platform while I tightened screws and read the heat measurements.


    [​IMG]













    TESTING IF YOU NEED SOLUTIONS TO ISSUE 1: Before you try either, you must test and find out where the pressure needs to be applied first. Temperature reduction is instantly noticeable doing this test. The easiest way to figure out if the GPU heatsink is loose even after the screws are all the way in, and to avoid airflow restriction while running, is by having the notebook upside down with lid closed, back plastic cover off, and connected to an external monitor while running Kombustor. I first let Kombustor run at 1920x1080 for 4-5 minutes to let the heat levels to stabilize. Then, as it was running I pressed on the GPU block very gently with pencil eraser at different points while monitoring the temperature changes with each press. I got up to -8C drops immediately, so this let me know that my GPU was not flush with the heatsink. Doing this upside down first allows you to take your time slowly and methodically. I personally find it best to take it easy first so you can draw an accurate conclusion. Then when you know its not like it should be, do it right side up. When its right side up it will need a better prop of the notebook in order to allow you to press on the GPU and avoid blocking the fan intake, so make sure you prop the notebook firmly first. I'd advise not to use a metal object to do any of this poking around. Use something like the plastic head of a screwdriver or a pencil eraser to apply pressure to the heat blocks.

    [​IMG]

    The first big photo was -8C while running hot for the first time on a fresh application of IC Diamond compound. The compound cured a bit after several runs of Kombustor, and I was able to sustain -10C as shown in the next photo.




    SOLUTIONS IF THE TEST REDUCED TEMPS:

    Solution 1A - The metal strip mounts dont apply enough pressure because the screw shaft sockets limit how far the screws can go down. Design flaw (erhm, Clevo oversight) In addition to these shaft sockets which limit how deep the screws can go, there are 2 additional ring tabs underneath the main metal tabs, sticking out of opposite corners of the GPU heatstink. They are hard to notice at first, but these can be used to add pressure with the existing screws. They go around the socket shafts instead of resting on them like the main tabs do, so you can use washers as spacers to push down on them and add more pressure! Use washers small enough to avoid touching any outside circuits, but large enough in the center to slide over the shaft. Acting the same as if I leveraged the pipe assembly in solution 1A, I got -8C after putting in two 1mm thick washers and screwing them down. If you are going to install washers under certain screws, fully tighten the screws that you are not going to use washers on, first, but Don't tighten the screw with the washer underneath it as hard as you can. Take small incremented steps tightening the screw with the washer underneath it and check your temps each time you tighten. Once the temp stops dropping and teeters between 1 or 2 degrees, then you don't need to tighten anymore.


    [​IMG]

    EDIT: Was asked for washer size. I didn't buy anything since I have a drawer full of random tiny washers, but I measured it: 3mm inner, 7mm outer, and like 8/10 a MM thick:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]


    Solution 1B The heat pipe assembly has nothing firmly supporting it at the opposite end of the GPU where the copper fins are. This uneven weight acts like a lever on the heatstink, pulling or pushing it away from the GPU die surface. To find out if this is a problem for you, once your GPU is cooking at normal max temp, put gentle pressure on the copper fins. If the pressure reduces temps from normal, you have the weight of the pipe assembly leveraging your GPU heatstink and something needs to be stuffed somewhere to support it. Also do this procedure in the opposite direction to check both ways. I got an instant -6C to -8C change when I pushed the fin end up properly, and instant +8C when let go. Supporting the pipes will cool your GPU without even making anything tighter. You may only need a sliver of something to push on it, or way more. It depends how bad your copy is bent out of alignment. Reference the big diagram above for this solution. Solution 1A was better for me since solution 1B enhanced the air leak gap problem that the tape fixes in issue #2. Yours might be bent differently and actually improve the gap and GPU pressure if you're lucky. YMMV!









    Solution 2:

    Tape! Shown above and first fixed here:

    Seal air leaks with tape








    Issue 3:

    Solution? A newly designed fan port. This one really ticks me off unlike any of the other issues. I can understand the other ones, but this one is just from an epic failure in thinking it out: A cover that blocks airflow more than it allows. This is by far the biggest issue for all %100 of our notebooks. Mine personally runs at 94C with the cover, and 80C without. Clevo should know that cooling doesn't work by restricting the air feed, which is exactly what they did here with their design to a surprising extent. I mean really, you can just look at other notebooks and you'll see much better port designs that makes the fan the only major limiting factor in CFM capacity. I'd really love to cut out the plastic port grate entirely and maybe add some type of thin aluminum plate with a more flow-friendly design. And why the hell is %10 of the fans airflow space blocked for a rubber foot? This just tipped it over into the realm of stupidity. You can move the foot 1/2 an inch over and give the fan %10 more airflow, can'tcha? So, solution please, Clevo? Please offer a replacement cover with better vent port design! And move that damned rubber foot and open up some space.


    And the epic fail:

    [​IMG]









    Issue 4:

    This issue really blows. We need custom fan policies! Please give us a program with the ability to create and manage our own fan policies as well as some default profiles with options on how aggressive you want the cooling to be. Also, FN+Key for %100 fan would be a great addition as well:

    Edit: %100 fan function is now available in custom BIOS for any P150/P170, thanks to Premas BIOS mod! http://forum.techinferno.com/clevo-sager/3119-premas-mod-bios-latest-stock-bios.html



    So to sum it up, with the bottom plastic cover on I was maxing at 97C before addressing any issues and 94C after taping the leaks and fixing the GPU pressure. With the lid off, I run 80C even 26 minutes into Kombustor. Yep, plastic cover, you suck! I also suspect I can gain -2c to -4c with a more generous application of IC Diamond since the application I paid for still wasn't enough to fill the gap with all the screws to maximum tightness.
     

    Attached Files:

    jaug1337 and Tb5... like this.
  2. kingbobo

    kingbobo Notebook Enthusiast

    Reputations:
    12
    Messages:
    44
    Likes Received:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    15
    Interesting write-up, thanks for that.

    What a mess though, $2000 to DIY a cooling solution.

    Can others test this out and see if you're getting similar results?
     
  3. fantomasz

    fantomasz Notebook Deity

    Reputations:
    146
    Messages:
    1,108
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    55
    wait,if U put washer the shim will seat higher ?

    also it all depend how metal spring are shaped,up or down
    maybe bending springs will help
     
  4. aduy

    aduy Keeping it cool since 93'

    Reputations:
    317
    Messages:
    1,474
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    55
    No basically you add the washer to the screw. So it shortens the length on the spring increasing pressure between the heat sink and the gpu. Should be more effective than shims, and less of a pain. You dont even need to repaste.

    Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2
     
  5. icehot

    icehot Notebook Geek

    Reputations:
    0
    Messages:
    95
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    15
    I've done that and it does help..
     
  6. icehot

    icehot Notebook Geek

    Reputations:
    0
    Messages:
    95
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    15
    So the washers go inbetween the screw head and the sprung arm thingy (ie on top of the metal arm)? Can't see how this gives more pressure, I can see it might bend the arms a touch more if it allowed you to screw into the screw holes the same as before.... would it not be better to get 2 solid metal arms going over the 2 sides and screw that in to generate loads more pressure without any flex in it?
     
  7. Couchking

    Couchking Notebook Enthusiast

    Reputations:
    2
    Messages:
    43
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    15
    Great write-up, I think you've done a great job covering all of the relevant flaws, now I just hope Clevo listens.

    Would it be fair to say that those who already have their laptops are S.O.L. in terms of Clevo fixing this? Or can we expect Clevo to provide replacement bottom covers and/or a heatsink fix at no cost?
     
  8. fantomasz

    fantomasz Notebook Deity

    Reputations:
    146
    Messages:
    1,108
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    55
    i did quick test
    i dont have washer at home so i just bend UP springs (same result as washer)
    and my temps is exactly same

    maybe these 2 piecesused for centering atached to shim blocking shim to go down all the way


    [​IMG]
     
  9. icehot

    icehot Notebook Geek

    Reputations:
    0
    Messages:
    95
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    15
    I don't think it needs to go that far, I'm not pissed off or anything I'm wanting to cool it so I can overclock and purely out of interest, as a stock standard machine I don't think it matters at all based on the fan profiles it's meant to run at around 90 to 100c I would say... so far the mods and research have kept it down to the low end of that which is great... If they released an aftermarket heatsink for it that performed better then I'd buy it.
     
  10. TR2N

    TR2N Notebook Deity

    Reputations:
    292
    Messages:
    1,315
    Likes Received:
    234
    Trophy Points:
    81
    Interesting read,

    Honestly, though one would have to argue here that do you have enough thermal paste to transfer the heat correctly across to the copper cooler so it is correctly dissipated and transferred away from GPU/CPU?

    The fact that you are pressing down on cooler and getting instant results tells me a thermal paste issue - perhaps not enough thermal paste to transfer and conduct the heat away from the CPU/GPU.

    These mods are TBH ridiculous when possibly all that is required is a simple reapplication of thermal paste with proper cleaning. If and only if after thermal paste there is no reduction and pressing down on cooler continues to reduce CPU/GPU temps then you should contact your reseller advising of the issue, perhaps requesting a new CPU/GPU cooler.

    I did my own reapplication with IC7 diamond on my P170HM after purchase and temperatures never go above 85C for GPU and 62C for CPU and have never had a BSOD or crash. I am not sure though to what extent the 7970m is the issue here but nevertheless I am sure a correct reapplication of good quality thermal paste should solve the issue for OP without the need for all these modification which TBH are ridiculous for something costing well over $2K
     
Loading...
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page