Clevo 2019

Discussion in 'Sager and Clevo' started by steberg, Jan 6, 2019.

  1. Stooj

    Stooj Notebook Deity

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    Indeed, we're basically saying the same thing with different words. Heat concentrated in a small area is harder to pull away.

    Yes, I'm also very careful not to say that TDP = Power. However, the relationship between TDP and power consumption is simple and small enough that they're often just interchangeable.

    In the case of modern Nvidia GPUs they are using a new "TGP" value (Total Graphics Powerdraw). In this case TGP is the hard wattage limit enforced by the vBIOS. So TGP does indeed equal max power draw in these cases.

    The TDP itself doesn't go up or down, as it's generated by the chip. What does change is how much of that is absorbed by the cooling system. You could just glue a big block of aluminium to the chip and the TDP would still be the same.

    The chips do emit some non-heat output, otherwise the GPU would literally do nothing but generate heat, but we want it to generate graphics ;)
    The output energy is just miniscule in comparison to the amount of power required to switch all the transistors.
     
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  2. raz8020

    raz8020 Notebook Consultant

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    It is true that heat concentrated in a smaller area is harder to dissipate (fast enough), but a bigger surface doesn't necessarily translate in significantly less heat density if there is a significant increase in nr. of cores (of the same size) that are mostly responsible for the generated heat or in the case of CPUs, the iGPU occupies a significant portion of the die, but most of that surface doesn't help with heat dissipation (only part of it, that is near the CPU cores) when the iGPU isn't used.

    But all this talk about heat to surface area ratio, isn't relevant when discussing the TDP, because the TDP was already calculated for that specific SKU. Nvidia (and Intel in the case of CPUs) also give design guidelines which are to be used in conjunction with the specified TDP, so if the OEMs screw up something, it is their fault, because they have all the necessary data to design a proper cooling system.

    The HS/cooling system designer is going to input the provided power value when calculating the HS's potential, not a lower power value. Even though the higher surface contact area might improve the efficiency, the rating of that HS is still going to be at least the same value that the chip has, because it is actually dissipating that total amount of heat in watts (or joules per second).

    While the specs of the chip remain the same, the TDP rating of the cooling system can differ (but still needs to be at least the same value as the provided TDP).

    OEMs have the liberty to design a more efficient cooling system if they want to, and they usually give some thermal headroom, especially for the OC-able SKUs.

    Just like a lawyer interprets the law, an OEM can also interpret the given guidelines, so they can design a cooling system that is barely at the limit and still be within specs due to the complex throttling mechanisms or the high tolerances in some cases (for ex. the +90C avr. temps that are considered within specs).

    I agree with Meaker, we can assume (for simplicity) that all of the energy that is used to switch the transistors, ends up as heat (the insignificant parts that end up in other forms, for eg. radiation, are not relevant). Basically, that part of the GPU is just like an electrical heater that uses the energy in a more useful way.

    Now of course that the GPU uses a small part of the total energy for communication, but even so, the significant power values that are not converted to heat, are left out when the TDP is calculated:

    https://www.nvidia.com/content/dam/...ure/NVIDIA-Turing-Architecture-Whitepaper.pdf

    See ^^^ page 15 and the bottom note:
    For Intel CPUs:
    https://www.intel.com/content/dam/w...heets/8th-gen-core-family-datasheet-vol-1.pdf

    Start ^^^ from page 87 "Thermal Management".

    https://www.intel.com/content/dam/www/public/us/en/documents/guides/xeon-scalable-thermal-guide.pdf

    Start ^^^ from page 39.
     
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  3. Meaker@Sager

    Meaker@Sager Company Representative

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    Yep, power consumed = heat out. You can ignore everything else.

    Data is not energy so does not count ;)
     
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  4. Dakka3

    Dakka3 Notebook Enthusiast

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    Alleged marketing material from Terrans Force (Clevo's child company) alleges RTX 2060 is about 90% of GTX 1070 in laptop context
    (EDIT: it mentions T7 model which I believe is the new P970).

    4d31a3ec08fa513dc1cb0634306d55fbb3fbd932.jpg
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2019
  5. ekkolp

    ekkolp Notebook Evangelist

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    RTX2060 not being at 100% GTX1070 it's pretty bad IMO.
     
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  6. Installed64

    Installed64 Notebook Consultant

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    Yes, that would leave almost no reason to buy a 2060 over a cheaper 1070 laptop, all things being equal.
     
  7. Meaker@Sager

    Meaker@Sager Company Representative

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    That graph does not even match the numbers lol.
     
  8. jaybee83

    jaybee83 Biotech-Doc

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    glad im not the only one who noticed haha

    Sent from my Xiaomi Mi Max 2 (Oxygen) using Tapatalk
     
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  9. yrekabakery

    yrekabakery Notebook Deity

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    *Graph not to scale

    :biglaugh:
     
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  10. Dakka3

    Dakka3 Notebook Enthusiast

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    Another pic of the alleged new P775 cooling

    50ea97eef01f3a29ba96f4259425bc315d607c39.jpg
     
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