Borderlands 3

Discussion in 'Gaming (Software and Graphics Cards)' started by hmscott, Mar 28, 2019.

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  1. hmscott

    hmscott Notebook Nobel Laureate

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    Well that's too bad, as it turns out the Console versions aren't optimized well enough at launch either...I guess I'll have to wait to play those versions too.

    Digital Foundry @digitalfoundry
    "Just a quick PSA - we are looking at Borderlands 3, but in common with many outlets, we received no code for review from 2K. We'll report on all versions of the game as soon as we can."
    12:00 PM · Sep 13, 2019
    https://twitter.com/digitalfoundry/status/117258580941076480

    Wren @WreckWren Sep 13
    Replying to @digitalfoundry
    "Your info won't be relevant for at least 6 months anyway. Skip it, no one who knows anything will be playing it."

    Borderlands 3 Tech Analysis: PS4 Pro vs Xbox One X Graphics Comparison!

    Digital Foundry
    Published on Sep 14, 2019
    Our first impressions of Gearbox's work on the console front, with PS4 Pro and Xbox One X in the limelight. These enhanced consoles offer two playback modes; either focusing on a 60fps target performance or higher resolution. But does it deliver – and which is the smoothest way to play the game on console?


    kostas bousbouras 3 hours ago
    "So, in Xbox X they kept the same assets with the base xbox and still has many framedrops in performance mode and runs at 1080p. In ps4 pro the game has better graphics, better assets, same resolution in both modes with X but the performance is somewhat similar in performance mode, unstable with framedrops like the X, and bad in resolution mode.

    What the hell gearbox? what mess is that?... Honestly, having both consoles, if I was going to buy this game now, which I won't, I would not know what version to choose....the pro version with the better graphics playing in performance mode or the X version with the better framerate playing in resolution mode..."
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2019
  2. hmscott

    hmscott Notebook Nobel Laureate

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    Now it looks like there are multiple sources of upload bandwidth (Denuvo, Twitch, friend sharing, more?) used in BL3 that are taxing residential internet connections with low upload limits - of which there are many here in the US.

    It's not unusual to have < 1 mbit - 3 mbit upload bandwidth limits on the average USA internet service. My residential high speed internet service has a ridiculously low upload rate compared to my 1000 mbit download rate. My upload limit is 13 mbits which would *not* support a constant 2.5MB/sec upload rate = 20mbits/sec required for BL3 upload bandwidth requirements + Streaming Upload bandwidth + other WAN upload bandwidth needs on the local network.

    So I'm not at all surprised that many BL3 gamers are experiencing the high rate of glitches they are seeing without being able to figure out what is causing it.

    The BL3 game should have shipped with all upload options disabled, seems obvious now to us, but for the developers with a commercial internet service - with the same transfer rate available in both directions - download = upload, it probably never occurred to them.

    As BL3 gamers are reporting various ranges of upload usage I am assuming BL3 has implemented test code that checks the gamers upload bandwidth when the game starts is broken somehow. If you start streaming or start another upload against that same connection you could experience game glitches until the BL3 upload bandwidth test is run again and re-adjusts to the now lower available upload bandwidth.

    Depending on how often that BL3 upload bandwidth test is re-run, what other sources on your network are using upload bandwidth, you could be randomly experiencing good game play interspersed with bad glitching - varying wildly depending on your networks WAN upload demands.

    That would be a very frustrating gaming experience. Gee, I'm glad I waited and didn't waste time trying to play BL3 day one.

    Hopefully a patch will come out that defaults to off for all of the upload options, and also some documentation on what options require upload bandwidth - hopefully with some estimate of how much bandwidth for each option.

    If someone with the game has time to hunt down all of the BL3 upload sources - AWS**, Twitch, Denuvo, etc - and what configuration options to disable - or work-arounds for those sources that can't be turned off - like this, please do post your findings:

    Flare2V @Flare2V Sep 12
    "UPDATE: Using Netlimiter to block Borderlands3.exe allows me to stream the game in offline mode. It's a start."

    Flare2V @Flare2V Sep 13
    "I think it's worth mentioning that doing this also prevents me from playing with my friends, using my VIP rewards and it also removed my super deluxe bonuses halfway through my play session, but, again, a start."
    [​IMG]
    https://twitter.com/Flare2V/status/1172307954726424576


    **I wonder if the AWS upload traffic / destinations detected are from this:

    AWS Announces Amazon GameLift Now Supports Any C++ and C# Game Engine
    New matchmaking functionality intelligently selects the lowest latency AWS region to launch each game session
    February 21, 2017 at 8:18 PM EST
    https://ir.aboutamazon.com/news-rel...mazon-gamelift-now-supports-any-c-and-c-game/

    "Gearbox Software, the award-winning developer of blockbuster franchises including Battleborn, Borderlands, and Brothers in Arms, is beginning to deploy Amazon GameLift. “Now that Amazon GameLift is available for all game engines, we’re excited about its potential to help us deliver the lightning-fast, seamless online multiplayer experiences our fans demand,” said Neil Johnson, Technical Director at Gearbox Software."
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2019
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  3. krabman

    krabman Notebook Evangelist

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    I wont buy in until it comes off exclusive and all content is included so I've got time. :)
     
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  4. TBoneSan

    TBoneSan Laptop Fiend

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    I’ll pick up this game of they release multiplatform like they touted they would. Otherwise I’m a patient man.. I’ll get it for 10 bucks when it’s inevitably on sale :p
     
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  5. hmscott

    hmscott Notebook Nobel Laureate

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    Good coments in this quick first impressions coverage. Too bad 2k starved the media by not distributing game keys until the last minute. Another PC gamer forced to play on Console...

    Borderlands 3 - First Impressions - A Very Rough Launch
    Upper Echelon Gamers
    Published on Sep 14, 2019
    Borderlands 3 has a distinct sense of duality to it. On the one hand, it takes what worked, and does it again... perhaps slightly better. On the other, it almost feels like it is a game from 7 or 8 years ago that still houses some of the now brutally outdated frustrations. The game will be highly subjective in terms of appeal. For many, it is EXACTLY what they wanted, for others... it is less than adequate when considering its lengthy development time, and the hype surrounding it.


    LegatusAlek 22 hours ago
    "So they plan to release on steam on April 2020 right? The same month as Cyberpunk? Great choice."

    Didn't think of that, Steam release of Borderlands 3 in April 2020 colliding with Cyberpunk 2020? Maybe BL3 will slide out a little later to get a clear launch window on Steam?

    I am happy that there is only a 6 month delay in the Steam release (and other storefronts?) instead of a full 12 month delay.
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2019
  6. hfm

    hfm Notebook Prophet

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  7. yrekabakery

    yrekabakery Notebook Virtuoso

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  8. Felix_Argyle

    Felix_Argyle Notebook Consultant

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    It is pretty obvious that if Borderlands 3 would have released on multiple digital distribution stores - the player count would be higher. That, however, might not be more profitable to Gearbox - Epic Games is paying a certain amount of money to Gearbox as a part of exclusivity deal and it is most likely more than a potential revenue from releasing it on multiple stores. It is a pointless speculation at this point since Gearbox does not disclose the terms of the agreement ;-)


    Anyway, for people having performance issues - here are some fixes they may try before patch will arrive:

    1)If you have low upload bandwidth (your ISP is really bad or you use Wi-Fi instead of wired connection) - this game will transfer a lot of data in background because it uploads and downloads data using ECHOcast Twitch extension, as well as sharing your character data and your progress in game (which bosses you kill, which rare loot you received, which level you just achieved) with your friends. Until this is fixed, disable ECHOcast, disable all social features related to sharing your character data with your friends and remove as many people from your friends list as possible (if you do not want to remove friends - you may block game from accessing internet, this does not break DRM and will allow you to play the game for as long as you want, you just won't be able to play with friends) :
    https://www.reddit.com/r/borderlands3/comments/d3mwhj/holy_shit_i_mightve_found_a_fix_for_us_having
    I have tested it - disabling ECHOcast, disabling social features and removing friends produces no significant background data transfer. Adding few friends increases background downloads and uploads, though it has no performance impact since I have fast upload speed ;-)
    Same thing works on consoles (which do not use Denuvo DRM), just disable all social features and if that won't help - remove friends from friends list if you don't want to play with them:
    https://www.reddit.com/r/Borderlands/comments/d4xayp/bl3_performance_can_be_fixed_on_consoles_by

    Here is how your social features should look like if you want to play alone or want to play with friends with minimum impact on network speed):
    social.PNG


    Here is the network impact after all this features disabled and with no friends on friends list (you will see same exact results regardless if your upload speed is 1Gb/s or 10Mb/s):
    borderlands.PNG



    2) There is a bug with settings where selecting certain preset will introduce performance issues. The fix is to set everything to lowest preset then manually set whichever options you want to highest setting:
    https://www.reddit.com/r/borderlands3/comments/d3huy2/i_may_have_a_temporary_fix_odd_one_for_the_ads
    Alternatively you can adjust Texture Streaming option, setting it to lower values seem to have helped some people for whom the fix above did not help:
    https://www.reddit.com/r/borderland...e_a_temporary_fix_odd_one_for_the_ads/f06ax7o

    3) DX12 does work, despite it being a beta feature. Some people are claiming much better performance when using it. If you have performance issues in DX11 - try enabling DX12, the initial time may take long time, up to several minutes because it is not optimized yet but the results might make it worth it:
    https://www.reddit.com/r/borderlands3/comments/d3sl5x/play_in_dx12_beta_mode_to_decrease_stutter/

    https://www.reddit.com/r/borderland...layers_dont_make_the_same_mistake_i_did_play/

    https://www.reddit.com/r/borderland..._works_much_better_than_dx11_on_some_systems/

    If these fixes won't help - you need to wait for the patch. If you don't want to wait - just do a refund, then just watch the game played by people without issues, like:
    http://www.twitch.tv/cohhcarnage (you can use VODs to watch him play from beginning, or find another streamer who is just starting to play).
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2019
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  9. Felix_Argyle

    Felix_Argyle Notebook Consultant

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    Also, since I do not enjoy being a hateful person towards any company or person, aside from people with issues there are plenty of people who are genuinely enjoy the game. Here are actual impressions by people who played the game (unlike dishonest YouTube bandwagoneers):

    https://www.reddit.com/r/Borderland...derlands_3_made_for_a_fantastic_weekend_with/
    "I’m on mobile, so sorry if formatting is wonky. Not really sure if this is a good place to post, but I just wanted to share about our positive experience with the game so far! I hope other couples are having the same experience we are with the game. We haven’t really had a rough patch, but playing the game together this weekend, staying up late, laughing and yelling at different things in the game, anxiously discussing what would happen to our favorite characters as the story progressed, and downing junk food and soda to fuel our sessions has really brought us back to what we love about being with each other. To all the other vault hunting couples, I hope the game is as good an experience for you two as it has been for us! To Gearbox, I wanna thank them from the bottom of my heart for sticking to what makes the series great instead of growing trends. Your games have provided so much fun to so many, and even with bugs and all, I’m so grateful that BL3 is here. You all here on the subreddit, thank you for posting and keep it up! This is quickly becoming my most visited subreddit just to read about what others are experiencing. The bug thread was a great example of how many people are willing to help others out with the game. I’m proud to be a part of a community that is so welcoming and helpful, even to newcomers! That’s all for me being sappy I suppose for today. Thanks for reading, and happy vault haunting y’all!!"

    https://www.reddit.com/r/Borderlands/comments/d4z8yj/best_gunplay_in_the_business/
    "This is obviously based on my personal experience. A lot of people can’t play the game right now due to performance issues and I’m sorry for that. But this post isn’t about that.

    This post is about the gunplay in this magnificent video game. This post is about the finely tuned loot system that enables that.

    I have always, ALWAYS, been a medium to long range player. From my days on CoD and Halo to how I play siege and other current titles. I’m not a demolitionist. I’m not a run and gunner. I’m very good in my own way, but that ain’t me.

    Then came BL3. I started out with snipers (pew pew you know?). Fooled around with ARs and Subs and Pistols. Loved each style. By mid way through the campaign I could walk in a room and hipfire 5 enemies with a sniper before any other squadmate got through the door. I was feeling myself.

    Then I slid into an enemy and meleed. Holy **** 75% damage to normal enemies? Wait. What if I paired that with a close range weapon? Let’s say a shotgun. Slide. Melee. One shot from a shotgun.

    My god. I was reborn in the light of Leroy Jenkins. My conservative style went out the window and I turned into a destiny punchy boi. Into the motherfucking fray!

    What’s my point? If this game can get me to explore an antithetical playstyle to what I’ve always know, then it must be something really special.

    Has anyone else felt the same?

    Edit: okay so there are a lot of people struggling with the difference between me saying “best gunplay in the business” and the statement “best guns in the business”. Gunplay is most accurately defined as an exchange of shots between at least two entities. Therefore, how a gun feels to shoot is only a fraction of the considerations when discussing “gunplay”.

    Does destiny have better feeling guns? Yes.

    Does it have better gunplay? When one considers movement, complexity, variety and feeling, maybe not.

    Someone pointed out titanfall. Well sir you got me there. Thinking back, I do recognize that titanfall 2 specifically had the most satisfying gunplay as a package. But I think for me BL3 comes close"

    https://www.reddit.com/r/Borderlands/comments/d4zg3y/this_game/
    "Words cannot express the amount of fun I've had. Gearbox, y'all did a fan-****in-tastic with the game. Well done!"

    https://www.reddit.com/r/borderlands3/comments/d4vtym/borderlands_3_sucks/
    "The life out of me and I wish this wasn't my first game of the franchise. I was never really interested in it until this one came out and all I can say is that this game really brightens my life with how it's been. I started off with Fl4k because beastamers are cool but I ended up enjoying Moze more. All I wanna say is thanks gearbox for an awesome experience so far. Every mission i've done has been amazing so far and I can't wait for end game!"

    https://www.reddit.com/r/borderlands3/comments/d529as/i_just_finished_the_game/
    "BL3 is an incredible masterpiece and, in my opionon, even without DLC's stands its ground vs. BL2.

    Thx Gearbox! What a ride!"

    https://www.reddit.com/r/borderlands3/comments/d50nsx/a_thanks_to_gearbox/
    "Gearbox, I just want to thank you for this treasure of a game, it's absolutely brilliant, beautiful, innovative, and most importantly, FUN. So many companies and games fail to capture this element nowadays, and playing this game was such an uplifting, refreshing experience. Can't wait to see what you guys do next.

    Couldn't leave a review like I can on steam, but wanted to gush about this game now that we've finished it.

    And the Penn and Teller reference was perfectly executed btw, left my girlfriend and I absolutely in awe and laughter"

    https://www.reddit.com/r/borderland...derlands_3_is_the_most_fun_ive_had_playing_a/
    "I am very new to the Borderlands games. I only recently played Borderlands 1 and 2 as well as the PreSequel. I loved Borderlands 1 & 2. I even enjoyed the PreSequel, although not as much as BL1 and BL2 (from what I've heard, liking the PreSequel is a controversial opinion). I got into the series because my friends who I met through playing the Destiny franchise insisted that I play it, for it was the original and perfected looter-shooter.

    I didn't pre-order BL3, instead buying it the day it came out on the XBox Store. I absolutely adore the game so far. BL in general is such a breath of fresh air when it comes to video games. I've already dumped at least 24 hours into BL3, and I plan to pour many more hours into the game.

    While yes, I do recognize that there are many glitches and preformance issues with the game, I personally have confidence in the BL team to fix them.

    But overall, I realized whilst playing that I haden't enjoyed playing video games this much in a very long time.

    So thanks, BL
    ."

    TL;DR: There are bad sides and good sides to every game. Despite some people heavily trying to focus ONLY on bad sides (for many reasons - some believe jumping on hate bandwagon will bring them more Ad revenue on their YouTube channel and others just get enjoyment out of it), there are many others who are enjoying playing particular game, in this case Borderlands 3. So don't look only on negative sides and technical issues (which you may never experience) but also on positive when deciding whether you should play it or not. Better yet, trust your own eyes, it is free to do:
    https://www.twitch.tv/directory/game/Borderlands 3
     
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  10. hmscott

    hmscott Notebook Nobel Laureate

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    You don't need to be shy about crapping on bad companies - you shouldn't pay them either when they do bad things as that rewards them whether that is your intention or not - you are trying to make the best of playing the game, and they have their money.

    Profiting from bad behavior is almost a past time with game companies lately, seeing how much they can abuse and offend their customers because they know the psychology works in their favor.

    They know it's a syndrome they can take advantage of people who like defending anything that is being attacked - without even knowing whats really going on - people will focus in on some positive and defend them from that spun angle.

    If you don't speak up about the abuse and bad things, refuse to reward them financially, they will keep getting away with the same crap as they do time after time - and they know that because there are so many Pollyanna's out there defending them from some fantasy instead of facing the reality of the situation and staying the heck away from them.

    They know there are almost always positives to focus on - or they can lie and make them up, and that's how marketing spin works, changing the topic away from the clearly bad crap going on and influencing the Pollyanna's to pull out their pocketbooks.

    Metacritic has been tracking a steady 50:50 split as to who is looking at the bright side of their situation on BL3 and who isn't. It seems almost like Metracritic is releasing a measured amount of good / bad ratings, as it's been like this the whole time, I would have expected the bad reviews to far outweigh the good ones, but been a steady 50:50 the whole time:
    Metacritic 9-16-19 686 pos 684 neg.JPG
    https://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/borderlands-3/user-reviews?sort-by=date&num_items=100

    Samidgf Sep 16, 2019
    This review contains spoilers.
    "What's the point of collecting eridium if it's only for cosmetics, shouldnt it be for augmenting your ammo/backpack capacity?
    Players are banned for calling the wrong pronoun to Fl4k.
    The humor is litterally taken from reddit, nowadays popculture is cringe. And are they joking when they put rick and morty references?
    The rest is pretty much filled with bugs, save that delete themselves, and so on...
    And btw is it just me or is every joke in this game PEE PEE POO POO since they're afraid that anything else will offend someone? I'll never forgive gearbox for killing Maya and keeping alive Ava and then blaming Lilith for letting Maya die when it was obviously her."

    Uncookedemu Sep 16, 2019
    "Look honest opinion here as a borderlands game its a disappointment, The story was underwhelming, the villains are not interesting or compelling at all (compared to the god that was handsome jack), the humor is mostly miss with alot of potty humor, absurd amount of bugs and IMO the only redeeming factor in this game was the gun play and skill trees. i played with a friend and the whole time we just yelled disbelief at the story and logic behind anything......i loved this game series but this hurt me A LOT :( "

    trihaloonoob Sep 16, 2019
    "I was excited to play Borderlands 3 after a bunch of hours from the previous games. But I cannot enjoy the game if I can't have a decent amount of frames. I play this game on Epic games after downloading Epic Launcher for the first time. I've made this account on metacritic so I can actually review the game and warn anyone who are planning to get the game this early. My laptop is Acer Nitro 15 with 1050ti and it can play Apex Legends lowest settings 1080p without having any problem reaching and maintaining 60 fps. But when I play Borderlands 3, an expected non-demanding game in terms of graphics, I cannot maintain 60 fps on 1080p. So i switched to 900p to try to enjoy the game I paid $60 for, but the frames are the same. This tells me one thing, my laptop is not the problem, it is the optimization that was so bad that certain places cut my 50-60 fps average (both on 1080p and 900p) into half, 30-40 fps. I also encountered the laggy main menu problem. I also found problems with the inventory because sometimes a gun is in a slot but the thumbnail is a grenade. This AAA $60 game launched worst than a FREE Battle Royale game (apex legends). I have submitted a refund request through Epic Refund Policy email, and after 2 days later, I have not received any reply yet. Now I see why Epic won't add reviews feature into their platform, so they can control the narrative and reviews so the games on their platforms look better than they actually are. "

    [Translated:]

    PedroBellic
    Sep 16, 2019
    "Bad game, I played it 1 hour and immediately asked for my refund, it is boring, slow and offers nothing better to its prequels, on the contrary, it was also a nuisance to have to download another virtual store to play it being able to be in Steam, do not buy it It’s crap."

    Good point here, playing with friends makes anything more enjoyable, that may be a real factor in the positive reviews, they are really reviewing the camaraderie from playing with friends. Even if a game is crap you can still make it a fun experience with friends:

    Have been Sep 16, 2019
    "At least, in cooperative, while talking to your friends about random subjects it's much easier to disregard the factors that make this game boredom, as it feels like it becomes a secondary. You tend to focus more on these during single-player."

    It is important to not shut up and let Epic, Gears, 2K and the rest get away with their crap and profit from it, because again, there are too many seeing the idealized view in their mind's eye instead of reality.
    f2xh2w5q6zm31.jpeg

    Here's some more of that "shipped the game before it's ready" fun that Gears / 2k / EPIC are spreading. Store mechanics problem with new saved game services? Or, problem with BL3 game code? Or problems with 2k use of Denuvo again? Too much fun:
    0ev7mo0tvym31.jpg

    To access the URL below replace the **** with the "bird" word...

    Thank you Tim for stopping me from buying a broken game

    submitted 12 hours ago by The_JPhantom [the bird word] Epic
    https://www.reddit.com/r/****epic/comments/d51hwz/thank_you_tim_for_stopping_me_from_buying_a/

    To skip the recap start at 02:35:

    Borderlands 3 Is Deleting Save Data For PC Players, Epic Store's Cloud Saves May Be The Culprit
    YongYea
    Published on Sep 16, 2019
    SOURCE 1: https://uk.ign.com/articles/2019/09/1...
    SOURCE 2: https://kotaku.com/borderlands-3s-rev...
    SOURCE 3: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7IET...
    SOURCE 4: https://uk.ign.com/articles/2019/09/1...


    Borderlands 3 Is Deleting Save Data For PC Players, Epic Store's Cloud Saves May Be The Culprit
    submitted 14 hours ago by -Raijin-
    https://www.reddit.com/r/pcgaming/comments/d52qrv/borderlands_3_is_deleting_save_data_for_pc/

    It'll be nice to enjoy the game in 6 months or so when it comes out on another service and the price is dropped - or there is a nice sale or bundle sale - all this will have blown over, the bugs will be fixed and we can rely on good store mechanics to support the BL3 + DLC.

    That will be fun, and I am looking forward to it.

    Laymen deliver the RA-RA for BL3, such nice guys. :)

    The Laymen Review Borderlands 3
    Laymen Gaming
    Published on Sep 16, 2019
    We finally review Borderlands 3, is it worth the buy?
    If your frame rate is holding up.. then hell yes.


    I've been seeing a lot of complaints from 2080ti owners such as related in their video, but 1080ti gamers are getting good results with BL3, as is also related in their video. I wonder if Intel + Nvidia Turing is problematic with BL3 because it was optimized with AMD for Radeon + Ryzen?

    Also, no one has mentioned [or even noticed?] that BL3 doesn't have RT-RT at release - or will ever have RT-RT.

    Who cares about RT-RT in a fast paced game like BL3?, it's simply not missed or needed:


    Borderlands 3 will NOT support PhysX or other Nvidia specific graphical "addons" such as Ray tracing [Official Source]
    Submitted5 Months Ago By TheGhostLP
    "Gearbox also said that the PC version has been developed with hardware manufacturer AMD. As a result, it has been optimized for AMD Radeon graphics cards and also and Ryzen CPUs." Source

    Guess we PC gamers won't enjoy the extra physics and particle effect that was a incredible addition to Borderlands 2 or the new eye candy from RTX cards. Makes me curious if it'll even support HDR on PC as NVIDIA seems to be the only team pushing for it."
    https://www.reddit.com/r/borderlands3/comments/b99f3s/borderlands_3_will_not_support_physx_or_other/

    Here's some fun gunning and running, it's kinda tiring to watch actually... hmmm, maybe I've had enough BL2 to hold me over past BL3 [2.5] until BL4 [Real BL3? or BL 2.6?]

    Borderlands 3 is disgusting
    zanny
    Published on Sep 16, 2019
    beware the slot machine
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2019
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