BGA Venting Thread ;)

Discussion in 'Sager and Clevo' started by FredSRichardson, Nov 29, 2016.

  1. Papusan

    Papusan JOKEBOOKs Sucks! Dont waste your $$$ on FILTHY

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    When they say The onboard components also minimize power consumption... It just means that they use low TDP processors aka BGA Crap which has 45W TDP as standard. So nothing new:D
    And gaming on the go just means gaming on battery. Aka you get a great experience, LOL
     
  2. FredSRichardson

    FredSRichardson Notebook Groundsloth

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    This is counter intuitive. I would think the ILM would take up more space (that little spring hinge thing makes it look that way).

    You sure there's a lot of free space? My laptops mobo looks pretty jammed (I have a pic a few pages back).

    This is very deceptive on the vendors side. Yeah, it takes less power because Intel throttles down the version of the CPU that you get when you choose BGA. Not because BGA somehow magically uses less power. This made me cackle uncontrollably.

    EDIT: I should add that lower power consumption means you can use a lighter heatsink. So maybe that's where they save on overall weight. "Winning...."
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2016
  3. Papusan

    Papusan JOKEBOOKs Sucks! Dont waste your $$$ on FILTHY

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    It's great that you have awakened and can see this BGA madness prevail. More individuals should do the same... Simply wake up and see BGA with other eyes:) With my eyes:cool:
     
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  4. FredSRichardson

    FredSRichardson Notebook Groundsloth

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    Yes, I think based on this discussion I do have a personal objection to BGA systems beyond a certain price point. But I also have tight requirements when it comes to mobility. When buying a laptop, the only options that meet this requirement may be BGA systems. The key for me then is understanding and accepting the tradeoffs (compromises) and deciding how much to spend based on them.

    I went through that with my current (BGA) laptop and I accept the outcome. Frankly I could have done a lot worse. Clevo definitely brings something to the table even for the BGA options. At the time (Oct 3) I couldn't find a system that was better.
     
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  5. Blacky

    Blacky Notebook Prophet

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    That's normal, usually after they place the motherboard components they make the PCB as small as possible. It doesn't matter what laptop mobo you will look at, most will look crammed.

    http://www.cpu-world.com/Sockets/L_Socket_G1-CPU.jpg
    http://www.e-weekly.co.uk/download/RnD/DRIVERS/CLEVO/P1x0SM/P150ESM.pdf

    As you can see here, it does take a bit more space, but it's not that much. That space depends a lot on the model. If you have a smaller laptop like below 14 inch, yes, that space will matter and using BGA will make sense, on 15 and 17 laptop there is usually a lot of space inside the laptop itself. I mean, Clevo managed to place a desktop socket on a 15 inch laptop, and a desktop socket takes up more space than a laptop socket. I don't have the time to measure it now, but I reckon the socket takes no more than 1 extra sq cm. Depends on the socket as well I suppose.

    EDIT: Actually, by looking at the Clevo's book I realised the mounting mechanism takes more space than the socket. So even if say, the above Mobo had a BGA , you won't be able to save much area because of the mounting mechanism and its back-plate reinforcement. Maybe that explains some of the throttling ? Maybe in order to save space they changed the mounting mechanism and it doesn't keep the CPU so firmly attached to the mobo ?
    For Clevo it looks the same:
    http://downloads.zoostorm.com/drivers/laptop/P651SX/P651SE_Manual/P65XSE_ESM.pdf
    Also it does show how much extra space is left around the CPU which potentially could accommodate a socket.
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2016
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  6. FredSRichardson

    FredSRichardson Notebook Groundsloth

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    Does Clevo currently have a socketed 15" laptop? MSI does but it is about 0.5" thicker than my P650RS-G (which is a bummer, but maybe I could have made it work).

    EDIT: I see the P750DM2-G. @Mr. Fox how does this compare to the Tornado 5? Also how are these two laptops when it comes to running on battery? Can they do MSHYBRID or is that a BGA thing?

    Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2016
  7. Prema

    Prema Your Freedom, Your Choice

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    P750DM2 is pure dGPU and has about 150 Minutes on Battery with its 1070...
     
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  8. TheReciever

    TheReciever D! For Dragon!

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    I genuinely like tinkering with my machines.

    Last 3 laptops I have owned were the m4600, m6600, and the y510p.

    I use the m4600 for most everything now, I took the quad core out of the m6600 and put the dual core from the m4600 and sold off the m6600. Then I took the Quadro 1000m out of it and replaced it with an m5100. Now I can play Overwatch with my fiance when she wants at about 60-70FPS @ Low. Theres not a chance in hell I could do that with the Quadro 1000m (540m).

    The y510p on the other hand only has socketed CPU, and are becoming irrelevant because the 755m SLI isnt able to power games like it did in 2013-2014. If the eGPU adapter for the ultrabay didnt exist then it would become less and less useful to me even though the i7 4700mq is still a capable CPU. The y510p taught me the BGA lesson.

    I would much prefer just changing hardware, than changing my laptop altogether.
     
  9. FredSRichardson

    FredSRichardson Notebook Groundsloth

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    Is it possible to make a socketed system with both discrete and integrated GPU?

    My P650RS-G gets under 240 hrs so it's not a huge difference, but I think that's from iGPU.

    For folks who need both mobility and 6 to 8 hrs on battery, the BGA Ultrabook is the logical solution. And those play Candy Crush just fine =P

    Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
     
  10. FredSRichardson

    FredSRichardson Notebook Groundsloth

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    This is a great example of the BGA tradeoff. I always thought "future proof" was kind of a myth we tell ourselves to justify spending a bit more, but I've lived in the BGA/surface-mount laptop world for quite a while. That world will always have it's place (when thin, light and unplugged are requirements).

    In the desktop gaming replacement world things are different. For a certain price the system should be socketed. For me right now I think that price is over $2500. I say that because my dream machine P750DM2-G from HID would probably be around $2700 (similar price for a Tornado 5). Mind you that's the premium version with delided unlocked 6700K and CLLU which is nice to have covered under warranty ;) A more adept person could bring the price down by quite a bit.

    The P650RS-G I bought from HID is a little under $2400. I would say that that few extra hundred dollars for the P750DM2-G could yield up to 3 years longevity relative to the P650RS-G through component upgrades. In terms of size and weight, they are actually pretty close (the P750DM2-G is about 0.4" thicker and 0.3" wider weighs a little over 1.5 lbs more). Oh wow... you can also replace the battery pretty easily with the P750DM2-G.

    But even with all that, I have to say I'm pretty happy with my decision. Or maybe that's just what I have to keep telling myself (hey I was pretty happy with my $1400 3+ year old BGA Ultrabook - but the wife wanted it and well I decided to upgrade =D).

    @Donald@HIDevolution - that P750DM2-G is a sweet machine! Maybe next time... =)
     
  11. Papusan

    Papusan JOKEBOOKs Sucks! Dont waste your $$$ on FILTHY

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    "That world will always have it's place (when thin, light and unplugged are requirements)" Yeah I know, but in that world, you should max pay $200-500 Usd if you go for BGA. Why pay more? I will call it wasted money if you buy JOKEBOOK's for more than this amount of money:confused: But that's me. And several should follow my advice. Maybe we have seen a change to the better!! No ODM/OEM's wants to lose money. Vote with your wallet:)
     
  12. FredSRichardson

    FredSRichardson Notebook Groundsloth

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    The <$500 laptop market is pretty limited. Tablets and smartphones mostly.

    Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
     
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