BGA Venting Thread ;)

Discussion in 'Sager and Clevo' started by FredSRichardson, Nov 29, 2016.

  1. darkarn

    darkarn Notebook Evangelist

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    Damn, suddenly after reading this, the 5mm benefit don't seem much...

    You can! My machine just reached its 5th year! And yeap, fully socketed!
     
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  2. FredSRichardson

    FredSRichardson Notebook Groundsloth

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    Well would you be any happier if Intel used a different surface mount technology other than BGA? I think it's surface mounted CPUs in general you object to :)

    I agree with the prior comment that price factors into this. At the price point of the P870DM3 (especially with 2 1080s) I would expect sockets. Replacing the whole board if one 1080 fails would be a non starter for me.

    Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
     
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  3. FredSRichardson

    FredSRichardson Notebook Groundsloth

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    Sockets take up more real estate in general. The PCB in my P650RS-G is surpringly small. Socketing both CPU and GPU would make the laptop wider and thicker. For me this is a non-starter since mobility is key and the P650RS is already pushing that limit.

    If I could handle only one socket I would pick the GPU. An upgrade there would be more noticeable.

    Now if I was stuck with a Haswell throttling down to 800MHz it would be a different story. My curremt BGA CPU runs steady at 3.6GHz undervolted with low temps under full load.

    Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
     
  4. Papusan

    Papusan JOKEBOOKs Sucks! Dont waste your $$$ on FILTHY

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    Try 4.3 GHz on core. Same with cashe:D Or even higher:eek: JK:p And if you had 6700hq... Fullly locked @3.1 GHz all 4 cores:no:

    MB for P870DM1. Maybe a bit bigger than yours:D
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  5. darkarn

    darkarn Notebook Evangelist

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    Yeah, I learnt that the hard way; my laptop was really heavy and hard (not impossible thankfully) to squeeze into my backpack due to the thickness (45mm)

    And yep, upgrading the GPU is a better option; apparently there are tech reviews that indicate that CPU upgrades don't do much to performance improvements but GPU upgrades do that
     
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  6. FredSRichardson

    FredSRichardson Notebook Groundsloth

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    Woo-hoo! Yeah, I will be lucky to squeeze out more than 4.0GHz without really messing with stuff (maybe even having to overvolt which is not the direction I want to go in). The main thing is that I think I fared better with the skylake generation of BGA CPUs.

    But the i7-6700HQ ... I think maybe it is quite close to the 6820HK but I'm not sure. Probably not more than 10-15% slower.

    This is from the service manual for the P650RS-G. "4" is the GPU and "6" is the CPU. They are definitely packing a lot onto this PCB.

    upload_2016-12-1_15-6-37.png
     
  7. Mr. Fox

    Mr. Fox BGA Filth-Hating Elitist

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    All good points the BGA Kool-Aid drinkers gloss over with lame excuses like "nobody upgrades CPU or GPU in laptop" or "it's not cost effective" blah, blah. Those are false impressions and erroneous statements made by silly people that really don't know what the hell they're talking about.

    I think it's safe to say the hate is for being pushed into a corner with unacceptable options and limited alternative choices. BGA has been around for years and I never cared because it did not interfere to the extent it does now. There were always multiple good options available, now there are only two Clevos (only one of which is actually good enough to consider buying IMHO) and the Tornado F5, with all other options among all brands everywhere being totally unacceptable. That's very sad.

    You don't have to look very hard to see the performance deficit that is associated with mobile BGA garbage. In almost every case the BGA CPU is either locked, cursed with inadequate TDP, or both. Those that are unlocked are almost always poorly binned compared to the same generation LGA options. In some ways it is similar to being molested and hearing your attacker say, "Oh c'mon now, you know you really liked it" which adds insult to injury.
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2016
  8. FredSRichardson

    FredSRichardson Notebook Groundsloth

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    I agree that this is unfortunate. I am surprised to see Clevo marginalize folks who want this - desktop components in a desktop replacement laptop. This is a good chunk of their user base.

    Putting that together with the Haswell BGA fiasco and I get it. I would be out there with my torch and pitch fork if my CPU was throttling down to 800MHz while playing Witcher 3 at 15 fps...

    But I don't think there is a one-size-fits-all solution here.

    For those of us who value portability over all else, BGA components are a logical outcome that we may have to accept. It's harder to meet the same mobility requirements with socketed components.

    Or maybe it's the case that the Ultrabook craze has lead to the usual leakage of technologies further up the chain where they are suboptimal but cheaper.

    You would think that with smartphones, tablets and ultrabooks being insanely popular the various surface mount technologies would improve. But then smart phones in particular are not designed to last more than a few years. So maybe not. Maybe the industry had succeeded in lowering our expectations to the point where we will by new systems every 2-3 years (or less...).
     
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  9. Mr. Fox

    Mr. Fox BGA Filth-Hating Elitist

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    Actually, Clevo is our hero. It's all of their competitors that have marginalized enthusiasts with the highest standards and demands and offer absolutely nothing worthy of consideration. Clevo is the only one, apart from the Tornado F5, that sells a high performance laptop I would actually consider paying money for. (Albeit a very desirable 15-inch option, the Tornado F5 is a fluke one-off MSI whitebook that is inconsistent with MSI's modus operandi of selling only BGA filth.)
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2016
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  10. FredSRichardson

    FredSRichardson Notebook Groundsloth

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    Ah, okay, thank you! I thought Clevo was on the right side of the performance gaming laptop enthusiasts! That is what I wanted to believe ;)

    Wow, the Eurocom MSI Tornado F5 is really nice. If I had to start over again I would be comparing that very closely to the P650RS-G. It's only a little heavier and the price is not crazy considering the components. The only real issue is that it is about 0.5" thicker, but I'd be tempted to make it work.

    I hope HID ( n.b. @Donald@HIDevolution ) gets a version of this one soon =)
     
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