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Asus ROG Strix GL702ZC / G702ZC / S7ZC with Ryzen 7 1700 8-core CPU and a Radeon RX580 GPU

Discussion in 'Asus' started by sicily428, May 30, 2017.

  1. Deks

    Deks Notebook Virtuoso

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    Honestly, I hadn't seen my temperatures improve with the latest BIOS at all... but that could also mean Asus gave me a low silicon quality hardware and did a poor thermal paste application.
    What helped me most was undervolting.

    In regards to power consumption of the R5 model... I'm only looking at the notebookcheck article, and unless I'm mistaken, the power consumption numbers of that unit are that its taking on average more power for some reason than the 8c/16th version.. which I said was odd.
    You'd think the 6c/12th CPU would have lower power consumption... so it's possible I misread, or that Notebookcheck made an error.

    I have only used Windows 10 on this machine... others have used Linux.
    As for Windows 7... I wouldn't go there for security reasons (obviously)... and various features the Ryzen series has isn't supported by Windows 7 or 8.1 for that matter.

    You CAN technically install Windows 7 on this machine and get functionality for all the hardware by using the control panel to update the drivers, or just go to websites for specific hardware manufacturers (other than CPU/GPU) and download Windows 7 version drivers if they put them up.

    If a few of your guys want to use something other than Windows 10, I recommend they use Linux.
     
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  2. hmscott

    hmscott Notebook Nobel Laureate

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    It's worth trying to get Windows 7 running, but afaik noone has reported doing so.

    If they want / need Windows 7, then I'd suggest running it in a VM guest, using Linux, Windows 10 or a dedicated VM host OS with pass-through to the hardware in case they want direct access to the hardware.

    Level1Tech's on Youtube have put out a number of video's for this on their Linux channel, using passthrough to get access to specific hardware with Ryzen / ThreadRipper CPU's.

    With the latest BIOS, VM support is there for the GL702ZC, so it's a viable alternative.

    Windows 10 would only be used to boot into a Windows 7 VM, and from there nothing done in Windows 7 would be seen by Windows 10, and you can neuter Windows 10 to reduce it's resource usage since Windows 10 services would be invisible (useless) to the Windows 7 VM.

    If they do this, please write up a how to - either or both getting Windows 7 to run on the native hardware, or getting Windows 10 on top of a host OS, and post it here.

    Good luck. :)
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2018
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  3. Caretaker01

    Caretaker01 Notebook Enthusiast

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    Let's not forget that if you're co-workers are somewhat of a gamer directx 12 is a no go on windows 7, witch is not fully utilized yet in Windows 10 as far as I can see online in a DX 11 Vs 12 comparison, but eventually there will be an advantage of owning a DX 12 GPU.
    I'm not a gamer by any chance so I can't vouch for that so take it with a grain of salt.
    I've been using windows 10 from the first beta testing program was announced and I haven't had any screen burning or any myths that are out there, but I have seen an increase FPS in cad software. Regarding windows 10 privacy debate's, if you have and android or iOS phone or a Facebook account, you can leave you're privacy concerns at the door, everyone already knows everything about you, and they share info among others.

    Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk
     
  4. hogues

    hogues Newbie

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    Thanks for your input everyone!

    Personally I do think this laptop looks like a great bit of kit, although in terms of meeting the requirements of what the guys need against what they want, I think I'm just going to have to put my foot down and have them look at other alternatives. Funnily enough the machines they've been using thus far with no issues are all of a sudden "too slow" following one of the team members getting a £2k desktop a few weeks back... funny that! ;)

    Basically the software that they need to run is old and poorly written and seems to process everything very much in a brute force sense - which is what makes having 8 cores/16 threads so appealing, and of course this laptop is an absolute monster when it comes to its multi-core capabilities. Unfortunately said software is compatible with Win7 ONLY (with the developers confirming there is no support planned for any other OS), which provides a bit of a headache.

    I've also been informed they require the use of peripheral devices connecting via USB 2.0 only, as apparently when connected via more recent iterations these devices don't work at all (which doesn't entirely make sense to me...). This of course is another point against this laptop in my very specific instance.

    I think the request for a fleet of these machines has very much been a case of, "that looks cool, lets get it!", rather than a realistic assessment of whether or not its fit for purpose.

    I do love this suggestion and the thought of attempting to get this working does sound like a lot of fun! Bundled in with the other considerations I think this would be a case of trying to force a square in round hole as it were. Additionally, the potential users aren't particularly... tech savvy (?), in an attempt to phrase that in the nicest way possible, thus supporting them with the use of these machines in such a way suddenly becomes a lot more difficult.

    I'm going to push back for desktop alternatives and suggest connecting remotely when out of the office. Should be able to save a lot of hassle (both in initial implementation and subsequent support) and money this way.

    Thanks again for all your input everyone! The most annoying thing to come of all this is having done a lot of looking in to the GL702ZC I want one for my own personal use now... :p
     
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  5. Jim Beam

    Jim Beam Notebook Enthusiast

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    How does this laptop go for I/O speed?

    The only faster interface it has is a USB 3.1 Gen 2 type C port.

    Given this and the fact it only has 1 x M2 SSD slot + the Sata III 2.5" bay it would seem to get the fastest I/O possible on this laptop that it would make sense to put the OS on a 2.5" SSD (Samsung 860?) in the 2.5" bay and put in a Samsung 960 PCIe or similar into that M2 SSD slot. That way the Samsung 960 is bottle necked by the 3.1 Gen 2 port ( so wringing every drop of I/O performance possible from that 3.1 Gen 2 - nothing left on the table there at all)

    Since there is only 1 x M2 slot there is of course no way to do a Raid 0 to get speed from slower SATA III SSD's so it would seem the only way to get up the to max speed of the USB 3.1 Gen 2 port is to use a very fast NVMe PCIe SSD in that single M2 slot.

    Does this analysis sound about right ?
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2018
  6. Jim Beam

    Jim Beam Notebook Enthusiast

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    What is the fastest RAM out there for this laptop ? How much difference will it make over the 2400MHz RAM that comes with it (maxed out to 32GB)

    Edit - from what I can tell it looks like these RIPJAWS are about it.....is there anything faster then this that this laptop will take ?


    G.Skill
    G.SKILL 32GB (2 x 16G) Ripjaws Series DDR4 PC4-21300 2666MHz 260-Pin Laptop Memory Model F4-2666C18D-32GRS
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2018
  7. hmscott

    hmscott Notebook Nobel Laureate

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    Except that unless you have a specific use that can benefit from the NVME speed spending extra is a waste of $. Your benchmarks will bring you warm fuzzies, but in day to day use you won't see any benefit.

    Now, if you have a task that is IO bound, and you run it for hours a time, and the delta in job run is enough time in wall time to save you time in your work flow, or allows you to run more jobs per day, you'll never payback to yourself the delta in cost(s).

    The NVME's controllers at their higher speed run much hotter, and throttle sooner, so unless you have a good airflow / cooling around the M.2 drive, you are better off with the cooler running M.2 SATA drive, which also draws less power at idle and under load.

    There are now 2TB M.2 SATA SSD's, which were only available in NVME previously, so your storage density options are the same now.

    Here are some sample prices for 2TB and 1TB M.2 SATA and NVME SSD's, you pay 2x for the NVME!

    SAMSUNG 860 EVO Series M.2 2280 2 TB SATA III 3D NAND Internal Solid State Drive (SSD) MZ-N6E2T0BW - $649
    https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820147681

    Samsung 2TB 860 EVO SATA III M.2 Internal SSD - $649
    https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1382505-REG/samsung_mz_n6e2t0bw_860_evo_2tb_internal.html

    Samsung 960 PRO Series - 2TB PCIe NVMe - M.2 Internal SSD (MZ-V6P2T0BW)
    Price: $1,249.00

    https://www.amazon.com/Samsung-960-PRO-Internal-MZ-V6P2T0BW/dp/B01LY3Y9PH

    Crucial MX300 1TB 3D NAND SATA M.2 (2280) Internal SSD - CT1050MX300SSD4 - $289
    https://www.amazon.com/Crucial-MX300-NAND-SATA-Internal/dp/B01L80DH1Y

    Samsung 860 EVO 1TB M.2 SATA Internal SSD (MZ-N6E1T0BW) - $329
    https://www.amazon.com/Samsung-860-SATA-Internal-MZ-N6E1T0BW/dp/B07822Z77M/

    Samsung 960 PRO Series - 1TB PCIe NVMe - M.2 Internal SSD (MZ-V6P1T0BW) - $615
    https://www.amazon.com/Samsung-960-PRO-Internal-MZ-V6P1T0BW/dp/B01LYRCIPG/

    So even with just 1 M.2 slot, you can save $100's by going with SATA vs NVME.

    Here a few videos showing the end user perceptive difference between SATA and NVME, Optane, and what is found is that for most users doing everyday operations, running games, applications, booting up, etc, the difference in real use shows little perceptable benefit.

    HDD Vs. SSD Vs. NVMe M.2 - Does a NVMe Drive Help Boot Times?

    boot test nvme vs sata SSD vs sata HDD.jpg
    Funny how the NVMe actually boots 1 second slower than the SATA SSD :)
    sata vs nvme BF1 Game Launch Test.jpg
    NVME PCIe SSD vs. SATA SSD for Gaming, Tested!
    Testing results start about 4:00

    Here are new reviews of Intel Optane SSD, showing again that for normal usage you won't notice the difference in user perceptible performance.
    Intel Optane 900p : Our Initial thoughts and Testing


    The fastest SSD for gaming, and one big problem..
    Results start around 3:50

    Optane vs NVME vs SATA game load times.jpg
    Only specialized long running jobs will show benefit's that a user can benefit from.
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2018
  8. Jim Beam

    Jim Beam Notebook Enthusiast

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    My application is moving very large video files onto the laptop for editing and encoding then getting the material back off the laptop and back onto the NAS.

    The only fast interface this laptop has is USB 3.1 Gen 2 - and thats not even that fast compared to TB3. I would prefer the TB3 but of course its not available with Ryzen. So seems real world speeds off a fast PCIe SSD out to a fast SSD Raid via 3.1 Gen 2 is about 800MB/s. TB3 would do double that - alas its just not happening in this laptop.

    So regardless of my reasons for wanting to do it, it looks to me like the OS on a Sata III SSD in the 2.5" bay and a PCIe SSD in the M2 slot is the way to move the HUGE files (30-40+ GB per file) off and on this laptop as fast as possible.

    Does anyone see a reason why this would not *technically* not work the way I have outlined ?


    P.S..i might add here, what I am saying is I want to saturate the 3.1 Gen 2 connection which is real world in the 700 - 800 MBps range - how am i going to do that with a sata III SSD when there is only 1 of them? The only device I know of that will give sustained SEQUENTIAL Read/Write at or above that figure is an NMVe PCIe SSD. Luckily this laptop can take **1** of these. So that **1** PCIe SSD had better be fast if its going to saturate that 3.1 Gen 2 connection.

    I cant see any other way to fully saturate that Gen 2 connection. If there is another way I am all ears. So I am open to any ideas/suggestions.
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2018
  9. hmscott

    hmscott Notebook Nobel Laureate

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    That would only work if you had another NVME SSD equivalent speed storage internally in the USB 3.1 device you are transferring from.

    Usually "NAS"'s aren't that fast, they have internal HDD's, and even summing up the throughput of several 100MB/sec SATA III HDD's, you'd need 8+ of them to get that NVME speed. 5 of them for 500MB/sec to match a SATA III device.

    If you populated the NAS with SATA III SSD's, then you would need several of them in the RAID to match the 800MB/sec sustained.

    Often in real world tests you'll get less than the theoretical throughput...

    Then again, 550MB/sec vs 800MB/sec is a speed up of 45%, so it depends on how many GB you are transferring and how many times a day you do that, to see if the 2x price difference is worth it.

    Also, tests show sustained throughput on NVME M.2 SSD's show the slowing down after a short time, to avoid overheating and throttling. So you'd need to find out what that time limit is on the NVME M.2 SSD you are looking at, to see if your transfer would complete before that slow down started.

    Then you'd need to figure out how long it needs to cool down to the same starting idle temperature before starting the next transfer.

    Or, just find out the thermal slow down throughput, and calculate based on that lower throughput as it's the sustained throughput.

    If you put together all of that, to confirm your calculations, we'd love to hear how it all works out. :)
     
  10. Caretaker01

    Caretaker01 Notebook Enthusiast

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    Why does raid speeds count?
    Unless you need to transfer high amounts of data daily from one place to another, let's say you are a youtuber, in real world use my Samsung evo 960 never reached 20% of it's full capacity, after I installed it I ran some tests and I can confirm that the SSD M2 drive reached the read write speeds claimed by Samsung. However testing side by side with my old laptop running a Corsair sata II SSD every software that I use opens about as fast. And lumion 8 rendering software has 15 GB installed so it should blaze in opening it, in fact so far developer's don't even take advantage of SATA II SSD speeds of 150 read write

    Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk
     
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