Asus ROG GL702ZC owners lounge

Discussion in 'ASUS Reviews and Owners' Lounges' started by Deks, Oct 16, 2017.

  1. Jim Beam

    Jim Beam Notebook Guru

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    I hear ya there on that !

    I am watching this thread to see how you go with your purchase as I am also about to pull the trigger and order one of these thru HIDevolution

    Will be very interesting to see what you get, how it was setup and what your overall thoughts on the laptop and suppler are.

    IIRC you were going for a Samsung 960 NVMe drive? I would be super super interested to see what speeds you can pull off that drive via the USB Gen 2 "C" port.

    If only they had put a 10Gbps ethernet port on this thing.......too much to ask? Ok then I'll have one of those chocolate thick shakes please........

    Tagging along.......
     
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  2. Caretaker01

    Caretaker01 Notebook Consultant

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    I have my baby running a Samsung evo 960 NVMe and some external hard drives, from western digital and Seagate, they are not the fastest as I currently use them for photos backup, but I'd be glad to provide some information about some of your interests.

    Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk
     
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  3. Jim Beam

    Jim Beam Notebook Guru

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    Hi caretaker,

    My interest in this laptop is video encoding. Those 8 cores are a tasty proposition for my type of use - especially in a laptop body. It further suits me because I travel between my lake front home and my home here in the city - its about a 1100 Klm commute each way, so lots of travelling up and down. To have a desktop 8 core CPU in a laptop body that I can easily move around is so attractive to me - battery is a non issue to me because I will be plugged in at either end.

    So the thing is, the I/O on this laptop is not that great. How to get those huge files onto the laptop for processing and back off the laptop once cooked? 1Gbps ethernet is not appealing. USB 3.1 Gen 1 is at least a bit faster then 1Gbps ethernet. USB 3.1 Gen 2 is even better again. But how to saturate that link with the sparse HDD/M2 slots on this laptop?

    The only possible way I can see is to use an NVMe PCIe SSD in that M2 (luckily ASUS made that M2 PCIe compatible).

    A higher quality NVMe SSD can easily generate the Gen 2 USB speeds - I only need to get as fast as the Gen 2 - anything more then that and its effectively wasted.

    Of course to get those speeds moving across the Gen 2 USB port infers there is a fast SSD or HDD raid array on the other side.

    So if all those conditions ARE met, what are the real world speeds that can be achieved?

    If its possible for you to check I would love to know. What speeds can you get off that type C Gen 2 port to the external drives you have?
     
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  4. Deks

    Deks Notebook Prophet

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    'Mobile supercomputer' is exactly what they should have gone with... and Asus needs to provide us with a new BIOS for Zen2 and Zen3.
    But, I don't think your requests are out of the ordinary considering the original price ($1600 in US, or £1600 in UK)... they're well within that price range (don't forget the fact that Asus could have made a much better cooling for this laptop as well... the size of the 17" chassis is quite large after all... even with the 2.5" hdd, we still have a lot of space inside).

    An MXM GPU would have been a lot better though and would have easily fit into this design... I don't like being stuck with just 1 gpu.... but consider the alternative: most laptop MXM gpu's of newer variety would cost a LOT more than their desktop counterparts and wouldn't exactly be a good/viable purchase from a cost efficiency point of view.
    Plus, there's the issue of some OEM's using inverted MXM interface (which makes most mobile MXM GPU's incompatible by default).

    While laptops easily have the capacity to be modular in every respect... OEM's simply don't (and won't) design them like this.
    Never mind the premise that MXM GPU's are usually sold on e-bay of all places for horribly large prices vs their desktop counterparts.

    However, I don't think we have too much to worry about for the RX 580.
    With an increasing amount of DX12 support in programs and software, I'm thinking that our gpu will be capable for some time to come.
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2018
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  5. Deks

    Deks Notebook Prophet

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    Btw... it looks like we can forget Wattman functionality on GL702ZC.
    I posted a thread on it in AMD community forums... and one of the officials (Ray I think) said that its due to laptops having thermal constraints why Wattman is disabled in drivers for ALL mobile hardware.

    Thermal constraints... how silly.
    I tried explaining that OEM's usually under-design the cooling which causes thermal throttling and hardware failures in laptops, which is why most people who would use Wattman on laptops would UNDERVOLT the GPU... not overclock it... or they would undervolt AND overclock to maximize performance AND drop power consumption.
    Most people usually settle for an undervolt on stock though.

    Still, I was told there's nothing that can be done since the GPU in GL702ZC is probably registering as a mobile part, which is why the drivers don't allow Wattman to appear.

    If this is the case, we might be able to enable Wattman via 2 methods:
    1. Alter the device ID so it doesn't register as a mobile part, but a desktop part.
    2. Flash a desktop RX 580 4GB BIOS onto the mobile one - this would likely overwrite existing P states and instead of 3 of them, we'd end up with 6 or 7 of them just like on the desktop version.

    Problem is... not sure if either of those methods would work...
    Not sure how to alter device ID exactly for the RX 580...
    And as for flashing a desktop RX 580 4GB VBIOS onto the GL702ZC one... well, we don't know if the graft would be succesful... plus, there are power constraints to think about... because the mobile one is restricted to 68W as a whole... the desktop one... not by a long shot.

    But if it were to work, we could likely apply much lower voltages to lower P states as well, resulting in low power draw and temperatures at idle (not to mention higher battery life).
     
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  6. hmscott

    hmscott Notebook Nobel Laureate

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    That AMD response is good feedback to send to Asus through a ticket addressed to the development manager / engineer for that model. That's worked for me before... it's worth a couple of ticket go around's. :)
     
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  7. Deks

    Deks Notebook Prophet

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    Yet another response on the forums.
    This is the third person now that says that laptops aren't meant to be overclocked at the mention of missing Wattman in drivers.

    Are these people daft?
    I keep trying to explain that UNDERVOLTING and overclocking are not the same thing and that Wattman is not only used for overclocking.

    Heck, in most cases with AMD hardware, you can undervolt and overclock easily enough resulting in lower power draw, lower temperatures and higher performance at the same time.
    But mostly, people trying to mod their laptops usually end up undervolting to ensure their hardware produces same performance at lower power draw and temperatures, ensuring long term stability and usability of the hardware as well (preventing failures due to heat, etc.).
     
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  8. hmscott

    hmscott Notebook Nobel Laureate

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    Yeah, I run into that all the time, people have trigger's that they have to regurgate their response without thinking, then will go back later - maybe - and re-read and respond again.

    All you can do is keep repeating it with each new response, maybe shorten / vary / lengthen the response to give the answer from another view / angle, so they don't reject the same word forms out of hand.

    Sometimes people have "Frog Vision", they see something jump in front of them and they need to shoot their tongues out to catch it. ;)
     
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  9. Deks

    Deks Notebook Prophet

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    Yeah... there's that, and then of course when you explain the difference then comes the following:
    'Well sure, but regardless, that's how it is with OEM's and there's nothing we can do about it'
    One even suggested to contact Asus about this... except that AMD is responsible for this limitation in the first place.... never mind the premise that Asus probably wouldn't even bother replying to that inquiry.
    Besides, OEM's have a history to merely supplying original drivers for their laptops and releasing nothing beyond that point... except possibly the BIOS.
     
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  10. hmscott

    hmscott Notebook Nobel Laureate

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    It's actually up to AMD, they need to add the GPU id to their installer and whatever looks up support for Wattman when it runs.

    Same happens with Nvidia, the vendor submits the ID and Nvidia includes it in the next Installer release.

    But, the vendor can "bug" AMD and Nvidia, and we can submit requests in the feedback threads and open tickets with the vendor to do their part in getting AMD and Nvidia to recognize the ID needs adding.

    I really hope AMD / Asus get their comm's channel working. :)
     
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